Have to admit it . . . GW2 may replace COH for me
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2012-09-11 01:46 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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NCSoft won't regret closing COH anyway. That's just a fact. Aside from the fact that it's, y'know, a corporation and has no feelings. Some of the employess may in fact already feel bad. Some never will. But the business heads who run the game are NOT going to change their minds about closing it.|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
Sure. Great. With loyal customers like you, NCSoft might not regret closing City of Heroes.
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That's why the Titan folks aren't even trying to work that angle. I'm not in this to make NCSoft cry sad, bitter tears. I'm in it to keep COH running somehow.
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Originally Posted by SteelRat
On another note (and not for a minute knocking the OP) aren't people just sick to the back teeth of fantasy genre games? I mean granted, it seems that all the games NCSoft has axed have been games that have been something other than poxy elves, dwarves and paladins and they've done so as a result of people not playing them very much, but what I don't understand is why.
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World of Warcraft was a good game for a while. LOTRO was a decent game that had a ton of warts and balky game mechanics, that went south quickly. I don't think I've played any other fantasy MMO for any goodly length of time because they just weren't very good.
GW2 is GOOD. What I want is a fantasy game, with GOOD mechanics I can enjoy. Just throwing me a random bone with a pretty skin won't do it for me if I can't enjoy the game, otherwise I'd still be playing LOTRO.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
So the OP is having fun in Guild Wars 2 and is man enough to admit this, rather than showing up to CoH rallies while Alt-Tabbing to GW2.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
Yeah, Guild Wars and World of Warcraft are like night and day.
I mean, in GW you have the tiny little Asura, which use steampunk magic-science contraptions, whereas in WoW you have little Gnomes, which use steampunk magic-science contr-- Er, in GW you've got your Charr, a race of warrior feline humanoids who form unbreakable bonds of loyalty, while over in WoW you've got the Tauren, a warrior race of bovine humanoids whose loyalty has proven unbreaka-- Well, in GW you do have the Norn, shapeshifters that were driven from their homeland who can choose an animal form such as bear or wolf, while Wow has the Morgen, shapeshifters that were driven from their homeland who can change into werewolves... Okay, okay, at least in GW you've got the totally unique race called Sylvari, who are not human or elf, but rather a humanoid plant. They spring from the Pale Tree and are a gentle people who nonetheless have mastered war, yet do things with honor and chivalry. And WoW has the boring old Night Elves, a peaceful people who were forced to war when their World Tree was damaged yet still behave with honor and chival-- Yeah, completely different. |
Seriously, I understand your underlying point (which I disagree with) is that "all fantasy is the same," but you've not done your point justice with these particular examples.
To me, all sci-fi looks the same. Metal building, metal ship, metal suit - got it. Boring. Don't find it aesthetically or emotionally pleasing. Do not want.
As we say in some of the fandom circles where I hang out, YKINMK - your kink is not my kink. And that's fine. You don't need to denigrate someone else's preference just because you like something different. You remind me of all the jerks who find out I'm a vegetarian and spend the rest of the meal telling me how great their steak is and how dumb I am for not wanting one.
I'm astounded to read that there are people who consider GW not to be a fantasy game. Alright, it might be a fantasy game with sci-fi elements, but it's still a fantasy game.
Eve is a sci fi game. Exsteel was a sci fi game. Tabula Rasa was a sci fi game in a (somewhat) fantasy setting. CoH has a contemporary setting and encompasses both, which is part of its appeal; there is enough stuff that we can all relate to, but enough scope more or less anything our imaginations can come up with.
Incidentally, when I was looking at GW2 I saw a whole lot more than "animals and trees". I saw spells, and fighters wielding axes, I saw armour that looked as if it'd been constructed rather than manufactured, I saw staunch warriors and mages walking across rolling hillsides. If that isn't a fantasy game, then frankly I don't know what is.
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Um, GW2 isn't that. |
Originally Posted by Starsman
This is open for a huge ball of semathic fights, but for me:
A world dominated by magical creatures (don't have to be the standard variety) in a medieval-type setting (castles/keeps/forests/stone cities) where technology is either absent or the exception and not the rule. A world where travel is (most commonly, not exclusively) via domesticated creature mount or magical means. A world where you fight dragons, golems, gods and magical entities (the later can delve into horror genre in a contemporary setting with the right approach, like TSW does) or perhaps other fantasy inspired races. |
The world isn't dominated by magical creatures, or even magic. I mean, what's your definition of a "magical creature?" A creature that doesn't exist in our world? 90% of the mobs in GW2 are real-world critters, sometimes tweaked for appearance, and very few of them are inherently magical. I haven't seen a single unicorn, and dragons are the equivalent of an Elder God.
Technology is neither absent nor an exception.
Asura portals are technological, not magical. We've helped build them and seen the mechanics. And there are no mounts.
If anything, it's a good thing, because there is an obvious difference when reviewing assumptions about the title vs the people who actually have it and have played it.
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Fair enough if it's YOUR preferred genre. It's not MINE. I agree about what you say about CO and DCUO and the lack of good games in general. The point is, there are an awful lot more fantasy games around and in development than there are sci fi games full stop. I know this because before coming back to CoH I spent a good deal of time on MMORPG.com going through the list and having a look at what was around. It's a tired over used genre (at least imo, YMMV) and every game that comes out based around it tends to just be a carbon copy of the previous one, with some gimmick thrown in designed to make us think it's actually not just another WoW clone. (Rift, I'm looking at you).|
Because for some of us, THAT is our preferred genre. There's a lot of fantasy games out, but NOT a lot of fantasy games that are, y'know, GOOD GAMES. That's like saying "why are the COH people upset, there's still DCUO and CO out there if they need to be superheroes!" Well, no, because they're not GOOD GAMES. World of Warcraft was a good game for a while. LOTRO was a decent game that had a ton of warts and balky game mechanics, that went south quickly. I don't think I've played any other fantasy MMO for any goodly length of time because they just weren't very good. GW2 is GOOD. What I want is a fantasy game, with GOOD mechanics I can enjoy. Just throwing me a random bone with a pretty skin won't do it for me if I can't enjoy the game, otherwise I'd still be playing LOTRO. |
If you like that, then knock yourself out; more power to you. I prefer something different, innovative and imaginative than sodding mages and dwarves.
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"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
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Ah all right, yeah that's fair. And it's not a bad setting as it is.
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Originally Posted by JayboH
I completely agree. My comment was for those that saw a tree and slapped a big ol' fantasy tag on it without looking into it, instead of discussing originality.
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Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
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And again, the backhand insult. Is it necessary?|
Originally Posted by SteelRat
Fair enough if it's YOUR preferred genre. It's not MINE. I agree about what you say about CO and DCUO and the lack of good games in general. The point is, there are an awful lot more fantasy games around and in development than there are sci fi games full stop. It's a tired over used genre and every game that comes out based around it tends to just be a carbon copy of the previous one.
If you like that, then knock yourself out; more power to you. I prefer something different, innovative and imaginative than sodding mages and dwarves. |
Just to lob that one back at you - how ignorant is it that people can't be bothered to actually LEARN ABOUT the stuff they're insulting? It's NOT a mages-and-dwarves game. It doesn't fit into the Tolkien pigeonhole of fantasy. It IS different. It IS innovative. Your dismissiveness is completely unwarranted. Fantasy =/= samey same.
If it's not your genre, why do you feel the need to come in and denigrate the discussion of it? The question was, aren't you people sick to death of the fantasy genre? The answer is NO, because the genre can still be fresh and interesting, if the game designers MAKE it so. Like they have with GW2.
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Yes this is true, but I must admit I can understand the resentment. The genre certainly is more popular than others.|
Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
Ah all right, yeah that's fair. And it's not a bad setting as it is.
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EDIT: you know what we need more of? Country-western themed titles - I never did buy Red Dead Redemption but I was excited at someone taking another go at the genre. I think there is an FPS that came out a little while ago that was too, although I forget the name. Would there be any interest in an MMO of that type?
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GW2 is definitely a fantasy game, there's no arguing that (just to be clear, the below is not a response to you).|
Originally Posted by SteelRat
I'm astounded to read that there are people who consider GW not to be a fantasy game. Alright, it might be a fantasy game with sci-fi elements, but it's still a fantasy game.
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What I find astounding is the amount of butthurt in this thread. Several people have said GW2 is just another "generic fantasy MMO." Which is pretty funny because it's not.
First, I didn't play CoH because I like the setting (I do like superheroes, though), I played CoH because it's a good game. To me, and pretty much all of my friends, it's not about the setting of the game, it's about whether or not the game is good.
GW1, which plays absolutely nothing like, say, WoW, is still a fantasy game, but they're nothing alike gameplay wise. GW1 and GW2 are also nothing alike gameplay wise. Conversely, GW2 is nothing like WoW gameplay wise. It's great that so many people say GW2 is another generic MMO, when they seem to have never even looked up any information on the game, nevermind actually bothering to play it to see if it's a good game.
And yeah, it sucks that NCsoft is shutting down CoH, but attacking someone because they're playing another NCsoft game, especially with the hollow claims that populate most of this thread, you just look pooper peeved as opposed to actually trying to boycott NCsoft (which is a ridiculous goal in the first place).
Butt doctor's verdict:
Butt frustrated.
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My original plan was to play both. I got GW2 because the gameplay is fun, the setting is interesting, and the art style is wonderful. Oh, and it doesn't have a monthly fee. It's the perfect companion game to one that I (gladly) pay $15 for, something I can dip into when I feel like it - but I'd always come back to COH.
I guess I'm not as sick of the fantasy genre as others are. COH was my only MMO for a number of years. I started out with Ultima Online back when it launched, and since then have played a little bit of everything, including EQ and WoW and LOTRO and Aion and countless others. They never really pulled me in as much as titles like SWG and COH did. But it wasn't that they were fantasy - I love the genre. To get me to stay in a game, it has to have a combination of things, a perfect storm of playability: pleasing art style and design, fun gameplay, good community, good customization. Those games had some of those things, but not all. SWG(pre-NGE) came amazingly close, with its sandbox world and customization options that were amazing for its time, and a great community despite the fanboys. Then COH came along and blew those options and that community out of the water, and had the gall to have fun gameplay and a great art style and world, too. It really is the perfect game for me.
In GW2 I have had a great time, and have met great people. It looks great, has decent customization, and it's fun, too. It's not COH, but it has all the parts that I want in a game, no matter what the genre.
Please believe me when I say I seriously, desperately wish for something amazing to happen for COH. I'm man enough to admit I was one of those that was in tears when I got the news. This game has been my home for over 6 years now. I've met people here that I've come to love and think of as family, not to mention the hundreds of hours of effort I've put into characters who will effectively be dead and gone when COH shutters. Every day I check the forums here hoping to see news that NCSoft has changed their minds, or TonyV's procured the rights, or something - anything - has happened to save the game. In a perfect world, I would have both games to play, and both communities to interact with. That was, of course, the original plan. If NCSoft would let me, I'd continue paying my $15 a month forever, no matter what other games I might dip into now and then. But unless something amazing happens, that plan has to change.
I enjoy GW2 and will continue to play it. It's already paid for anyway, and I can't send it back. But my enjoyment of GW2 doesn't change the fact that I'd give just about anything to see COH stay online.
Maybe this should go in a separate thread, but I'm also really enjoying the Planetside 2 beta. It's missing elements in its current state but the earliest I've heard for a release date is New Year's Eve.
It's a sci-fi MMO - but it's nothing like Eve either. ...actually it's nothing like any other MMO, just like the original Planetside. It IS however somewhat similar to the Battlefield FPS games in its current state - with no game fee or monthly fee.
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This.|
Originally Posted by Moderated_IRL
GW2 is definitely a fantasy game, there's no arguing that (just to be clear, the below is not a response to you).
What I find astounding is the amount of butthurt in this thread. Several people have said GW2 is just another "generic fantasy MMO." Which is pretty funny because it's not. |
It's not that anyone's arguing it's not a fantasy game.
Just that it doesn't fit into the generic shoebox the haters are trying to put it in.
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...as did my wife and I. We've played it longer than we've been married to each other. |
Originally Posted by Kyasubaru
I'm man enough to admit I was one of those that was in tears when I got the news.
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My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
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I do NOT believe that "all fantasy is the same." In fact, a greater majority of my college education was dedicated to sifting the finer points of sub-genres. What I'm saying is that claiming that GW and WoW are vastly different is like saying cars and pick-up trucks are vastly different. They aren't. |
Originally Posted by Feycat
Seriously, I understand your underlying point (which I disagree with) is that "all fantasy is the same," but you've not done your point justice with these particular examples.
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| As we say in some of the fandom circles where I hang out, YKINMK - your kink is not my kink. And that's fine. You don't need to denigrate someone else's preference just because you like something different. You remind me of all the jerks who find out I'm a vegetarian and spend the rest of the meal telling me how great their steak is and how dumb I am for not wanting one. |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Again, Ironik, you've clearly not played the game or delved into it to any depth. I played WoW from vanilla for about three years. I go back every now and then. I beta'd GW2 and am currently playing it. They are not alike except in the most shallow ways where they also share common ancestry with every MMO, including COH.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
I do NOT believe that "all fantasy is the same." In fact, a greater majority of my college education was dedicated to sifting the finer points of sub-genres. What I'm saying is that claiming that GW and WoW are vastly different is like saying cars and pick-up trucks are vastly different. They aren't.
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Yeah exactly.
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Originally Posted by Feycat
Just that it doesn't fit into the generic shoebox the haters are trying to put it in.
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My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
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gratz.|
Originally Posted by American_Knight
With all the talk/reviews on this board lately of how good GW2 is, I had to try it out. Now having played COX since before issue 1 and initally poo-pooing any ideas of playing another MMO, once I actually tried GW2 and went beyond my assumptions that I couldn't find a game that gave me the same satisfaction that COX gave me, I discovered a really fun game.
Thanks for the suggestions all and I encourage others who were in my same mindset to give it a try. |
for me, fantasy is the Great Dead Horse of the computer game universe, a lifeless hulk that developers simply can't let rest in peace.
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IMO Guild Wars, Rift, and WoW all more or less have similar worlds. There are some specifics that differ but you could yank any of the classes or races from one of those games and place it in the other game and it would work just as well, with fairly few modifications. The world aesthetics are full of sweeping vistas littered with "Renaissance fair" towns that co-exist alongside improbable robotics.
I don't know what label to put on it. I'm tempted to just say it's its own style--the "WoW-ian magitech genre." Magitech is certainly not new, but IMO the.. uh.. "style viewport" of those three games caters to a specific flavor of anacronism. WoW is a bit "zanier" in its approach but its basically the same thing.
IMO the genres are totally different in that Katy Perry is "totally different" from Britney Spears. I don't mean any disrespect in that statement, it just feels like a subtle distinction.
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Have you tried Planetside? Borderlands (ok, granted not an MMORPG, but you can quite easily get friends in to play with you in your game world). Tabula Rasa was another (with a 3rd person target locking system).|
Originally Posted by SteelRat
Fair enough if it's YOUR preferred genre. It's not MINE. I agree about what you say about CO and DCUO and the lack of good games in general. The point is, there are an awful lot more fantasy games around and in development than there are sci fi games full stop. I know this because before coming back to CoH I spent a good deal of time on MMORPG.com going through the list and having a look at what was around. It's a tired over used genre (at least imo, YMMV) and every game that comes out based around it tends to just be a carbon copy of the previous one, with some gimmick thrown in designed to make us think it's actually not just another WoW clone. (Rift, I'm looking at you).
If you like that, then knock yourself out; more power to you. I prefer something different, innovative and imaginative than sodding mages and dwarves. |
There was also Earthrise, Matrix Online, Anarchy Online, Eve Online, Star Trek, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Star Wars Galaxies, Defiance (due to be released soonish i hear), Global Agenda, Tribes...
Why have they died? What would they need to have changed so that they could stay afloat?
People say that SW:TOR is "WoW in space" especially concerning the combat. However to break out of that combat style, you are then looking at 3rd/1st person combat system.
Which works for *some* MMORPG's, but not necessarily for others. And with Science Fiction tending towards a lot of ranged combat (guns, guns and more guns... ooh look a sword), it would work.
Planetside, Tribes, Global Agenda. What needs changing from THOSE games to make the game that you are looking for?
There is also Firefall in development (which reminds me of Tabula Rasa to be honest)
As someone who also pre-ordered GW2 a long time ago and cannot return it, I find the game fun and would have alternated between it CoH/V, and EVE online. I honestly don't mine playing GW2 since there is no monthly fee to play and quite frankly, if any CoH player owns it, they may as well drain resources from NCSoft if they enjoy the gameplay. I won't be guying their 'jems' or anything else that transfers cash from my pocket to NCSoft.
If you find something you enjoy and is morally right, do it. Forget the crowd telling you otherwise.
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Always here, there, and there again.
To be fair, if you are talking about the original Planetside, it is vastly different from Tribes Ascend and Global Agenda. Actually Tribes Ascend and Global Agenda aren't anything alike and I think they were made by the same dev house. Planetside 2 is almost nothing like the original Planetside when it comes to gameplay.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
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Doesn't everything in GW2 ultimately descend from the various dragons? That right there is your "magical wellspring." Throwing in some sci-fi and steampunk tropes as set dressing doesn't change the underlying genre.|
Originally Posted by Feycat
Um, GW2 isn't that.
The world isn't dominated by magical creatures, or even magic. I mean, what's your definition of a "magical creature?" A creature that doesn't exist in our world? 90% of the mobs in GW2 are real-world critters, sometimes tweaked for appearance, and very few of them are inherently magical. I haven't seen a single unicorn, and dragons are the equivalent of an Elder God. Technology is neither absent nor an exception. Asura portals are technological, not magical. We've helped build them and seen the mechanics. And there are no mounts. |
Which, I will point out, is neither good nor bad. I don't happen to care for Fantasy games any more because ultimately they all feel the same to me. If you like it, super. I don't care. Doesn't change what it is, though.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Ummm... EVE Online is very alive and well. Not certain how you are trying to define died.
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Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
... Eve Online, ...
Why have they died? What would they need to have changed so that they could stay afloat? |
CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
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No, everything in GW2 does not descend from the dragons. There's talk that the Sylvari may, but as of now, that's rumor.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
Doesn't everything in GW2 ultimately descend from the various dragons? That right there is your "magical wellspring." Throwing in some sci-fi and steampunk tropes as set dressing doesn't change the underlying genre.
Which, I will point out, is neither good nor bad. I don't happen to care for Fantasy games any more because ultimately they all feel the same to me. If you like it, super. I don't care. Doesn't change what it is, though. |
Seriously, the stuff you post boggles me.
And no one's saying GW2 isn't fantasy. It's just not "generic WoW rip-off Tolkien-derived elves-and-dwarves" fantasy.
It's your decision and I wish you well of it. I'll be going elsewhere.
I won't be playing another NCSoft product because I no longer trust the company. No notice cancellation of games without a good reason, no notice termination of a loyal staff that's been with them as long as ten years, no information on refunds even though it's been nearly two weeks. I won't support a company that does that.
PS: I've heard back from the attourney in my sig
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