Have to admit it . . . GW2 may replace COH for me

I completely agree. My comment was for those that saw a tree and slapped a big ol' fantasy tag on it without looking into it, instead of discussing originality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBKekAjoLdI

trailer for the original....

In the sylvari quest-line there are trolls, look pretty neat too. Actually, based on a post by bellastrega i tried TERA, and it is fun, totally different than coh, customization is limited(though not as bad as id expect), and of course still would prefer a martial artist class(went slayer because they have a kick attack) but the art is really good and for a demo, i'm enjoying it. I really wouldn't call it replacing coh, both because the customization in a game with races and classes is simply not going to match the gonzo "make what you want" aesthetic of coh, and i doubt my friends will join me on it. but its a pleasant diversion.

To be honest, i kinda shot myself in the foot with that one... My 1st response when i thought about it was Shadowrun/Earthdawn (which sorry, does predate City of Heroes by MANY years)

Although no flying really in it... for that its Trinity/Abberant for me >.>

But then I guess that shows just how wide ranging the "comic" genre can be... it can hit everything it wants, and basically say "screw the rest, this is how it works *here*", with a lot of handwaving...

and it became this

THAT game has a great approach to combat. I tried the beta and it kind of opened my eyes to different takes on interaction and fighting. I didn't buy it though.

If you don't consider it in the same vein, then the small changes have big impact on you. Thats all cool. But they are still small changes, not even evolutionary on top of the non-fantasy WoW has added from the start (guns? been there since launch, rockets, interdimensional aliens, etc.)

However, the point is it's still a fantasy game, and your post I replied to:

...some people see a tree with an animal running around and disregard an entire game universe.

Basically says everyone that does not care for fantasy and dismisses the game is retardedly simple minded.

People that are sick of fantasy don't dismiss the game because they saw an animal crawling in a corner. They dismiss it because it IS fantasy.

I would never call CoH a fantasy game for having a few fantasy-themed zones. Some may be able to build a fantasy experience around that, but I would never sell the game to anyone as anything but a super hero genre game. Doing otherwise would be a lie. CoH is no sci-fi, nor fantasy. Same goes for DCUO and Champions. They are super hero games, a genre of its own. Same way GW2 is fantasy game even if it/especially because it contains fantasy technology. Steampunk is fantasy tech and a derivative of tinkering, usually it's more categorized as such not for its nature but it's Victorian setting (another reason why despite inspiration I can't see the Engineers even as steampunk, but not the point here.)

I personally don’t want to go into another fantasy game because I'm sick of the setting and tossing a few trinkets into the game, guns here, traps there, dont change that.

Oh. Now I get it - this is a personal defensive reaction on words I've never used.

So how would you categorize Earthdawn and Shadowrun? Does the fact that they *are* in a shared world just at different "era's" make a difference into how you perceive the two?

Shadowrun by itself is *definitely* Science Fiction/Cyberpunk
Earthdawn by itself is *definitely* Fantasy

Yet they both cross over, have links back and forth and are part of a "cycle" with Earthdawn being the Fourth World, and Shadowrun being the Sixth World. They are only split by time.

You accused people of dismissing fantasy for seeing an animal or seeing a tree.

Yea... I guess you didnt use the words... just trolled.

Ok. then orcs, goblins and dwarves with bad breath? C'mon, you've had to have encountered at least one of these?

Is their a kingdom, with kings and queens? Leather jerkins? Castles?

Your audience is enticed.

I'll bite from yet another direction: What defines the fantasy genre?

Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader

Entropy Legion * Hyperion Force * Hero Heights

I am not familiar with Earthdawn, my Shadowrun experience is mainly from some video games and has always seem to focus on the cyberpunk/bladeruner scifi side.

I am not saying you can't go 10 thousand years into the future of Middle Earth and kick start a cyberpunk game in the same universe, but should the game take place in the lord of the ring era, it would be a fantasy game.

Case in point (that I am slightly more familiar with) Warhammer and Warhammer 40k.

I would be interested in a Warhammer 40k MMO. Not interested at all in the current Warhammer Online MMO.

That's the thing, I was explaining how GW2 isn't a fantasy MMO. You argued it was, stated how those who dislike it are considered retarded in my eyes without me even hinting at that, and then stated you are one of those types that dislike the fantasy genre.

I didn't even put the shovel outside in preparation for the hole to be dug.

Maybe this is where we can call a truce and step away from all this silliness.

Should have played the games a bit more... there was magic, orcs, trolls, elves, shapeshifters, dragons, vampires.

And that was in just the SNES version

*edit* I would actually like to promote Anne McCaffrey as the "this is how you write fantasy in a Science Fiction" setting. Most people actually call the Pern series of books (at least at the start) definite fantasy... however, you then discover the whole history of the planet and the people, and then it becomes a science fiction novel with *huge* fantasy overtones.

Actually... no, that's the funny part.

Yeah, Guild Wars and World of Warcraft are like night and day.

I mean, in GW you have the tiny little Asura, which use steampunk magic-science contraptions, whereas in WoW you have little Gnomes, which use steampunk magic-science contr--

Er, in GW you've got your Charr, a race of warrior feline humanoids who form unbreakable bonds of loyalty, while over in WoW you've got the Tauren, a warrior race of bovine humanoids whose loyalty has proven unbreaka--

Well, in GW you do have the Norn, shapeshifters that were driven from their homeland who can choose an animal form such as bear or wolf, while Wow has the Morgen, shapeshifters that were driven from their homeland who can change into werewolves...

Okay, okay, at least in GW you've got the totally unique race called Sylvari, who are not human or elf, but rather a humanoid plant. They spring from the Pale Tree and are a gentle people who nonetheless have mastered war, yet do things with honor and chivalry. And WoW has the boring old Night Elves, a peaceful people who were forced to war when their World Tree was damaged yet still behave with honor and chival--

Yeah, completely different.

Look, GW and WoW are variations on the same theme. City of Heroes and EVE are just about as different as two games can get. GW and WoW are like Lord of the Rings and Shannara: so many similarities that it becomes futile to catalog them. CoH and EVE are like The Avengers and 2001: A Space Odyssey, where the points of similarity are tenuous at best.

This is open for a huge ball of semathic fights, but for me:

A world dominated by magical creatures (don't have to be the standard variety) in a medieval-type setting (castles/keeps/forests/stone cities) where technology is either absent or the exception and not the rule. A world where travel is (most commonly, not exclusively) via domesticated creature mount or magical means.

A world where you fight dragons, golems, gods and magical entities (the later can delve into horror genre in a contemporary setting with the right approach, like TSW does) or perhaps other fantasy inspired races.

This is a topic books can be written about, but thats just the surface and overly simplified description.

I can accept that overlap. Vampire the Mascarade: Bloodlines is one of my favorite games (up there with Deus Ex 1) and despite the magic, vampire and werewolves I would never call it fantasy.

Refer to my last post on genres. I actually feel the claims of "when will you fight a troll" to be silly, since that's just a race, and I would not stop calling Warhammer 40k scifi just because trolls started showing up there.

I don't hate Guild Wars 2. Heck, I don't hate NCsoft. They're just making a business decision based on the best analysis of information they had. I remain firmly convinced (and hope people will remember) that the decision to shutter City of Heroes isn't a personal attack on you, I just honestly think they didn't account for 1) how numerous, close, and dedicated the community is, and 2) that there were other viable options available; that realigning their focus doesn't necessarily mean killing the game. Basically, any NCsoft game I play in the future would be no more than a casual game to kill some time, a game that I wouldn't be too terribly heartbroken if it suddenly was taken down.

However...

It just wouldn't make sense to me to get as involved with another NCsoft game as I have with City of Heroes. At some point, I might play Guild Wars 2. But I'm not going to spend hours and hours on it. I'm not going to pour hundreds of dollars into subscription fees and thousands of dollars into running fan sites. I'm not going to get involved in efforts to do things like we've done at the Titan Network.

That's a core message I'm trying to convey to NCsoft. If they work with us to keep City of Heroes alive, by far most optimally under the developers of Paragon Studios, then that would send a tangible message to Guild Wars 2 players that they can feel a bit more at ease being such an avid player of an NCsoft title. It might not be me personally, but I'm sure other players will step up to the job. If they don't, then I can't imagine anyone seeing what happened to City of Heroes and being motivated to invest so much into another NCsoft game. I'd be constantly afraid that at any given time, suddenly and without warning or any foreseeable sign, they could pull the rug out from under me.

the fact that you just compared a violent, dictatorial race that acts like a steampunk version of the roman empire in the midst of a civil war to a largely peaceful and spiritual race that only fights because of a past debt to another race kind of shows how things that have surface similarities are totally dissimilar when you actually know what you are talking about.

yes, on the most surface level you can compare asura and gnomes, but once you actually learn their back-story, you see how flawed the analogy is. Shallow comparisons only benefit the ignorant. hey willow has short people in it, they must be wow gnomes too.

also, asura are in no way shape or form steampunk, everything of theirs is smooth and shiny and glowing blue, they are pretty much anti-steampunk.

Anne McCaffrey would like to have a word with you then (well she would if she was still alive )

She classified her books as science fiction, but when you start reading them, they are definitely fantasy.

However, once you read enough of the books, you discover that it is actually science fiction.

Thank you Anne for a marvelous 40 years of writing.

That description sounds more like what I often hear described as high fantasy.

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

Originally Posted by ShadowNate ;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

4/10