Maybe don't boycott NCSoft
NCsoft recently posted a $6m loss for the previous quarter. It's entirely possible their intention is to write off Paragon to balance out this loss.
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This quarter they had blade & soul mmo launch in korea and guild wars 2 in north america/eu region so their net income was expected to shoot back up to compensate for their expenses in the previous quarter.
Guild wars 2 pre-sold over a million copies and b&s did better than Aion in the first month.
Whether or not it will be enough is still a question...bit early to tell. It is said the Ntreev acquisition cost them about $100mil and b&s about $50mil...not sure how much gw2 cost them but taking 5 years to develop just like b&s, maybe it's about the same.
It is however a bit early to tell...gw2 had some problems and b&s though had a good reception, has decreased in user time drastically after diablo3 launched.
EDIT: With some talk about refocusing their business, they did mention they are but not where/how they're refocusing. Not sure if they're going away from the north american region since guild wars 2 is launched in the na/euro territories with no mention of releasing in asia yet.
Whatever their full reasons are i'm not sure that's a simple answer as just doing away with NA. However one might feel about CoX, in the overall picture, CoX's revenue barely constitues 2% of NCSoft's total revenue. Unless something drastic happens to that other 98%, i don't think NCSoft is going anywhere anytime soon.
(Please excuse the interruption - I'm trying to get in touch with Pebblebrook, but I can't seem to send a PM, even though Zwil said he was turning on PMs for everyone. So if Pb can send me a PM, please do so, or if not, a tell in-game to @Megajoule. Thanks and apologies; carry on.)
Oh, and on-topic? I really do hope it's not true, because then I'd have to quit STO too.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
It's not the first time their net income dipped into negative. In 2006 it went into the red (of course not as much as last quarter) but the following quarter their net income shot back up.
This quarter they had blade & soul mmo launch in korea and guild wars 2 in north america/eu region so their net income was expected to shoot back up to compensate for their expenses in the previous quarter. Guild wars 2 pre-sold over a million copies and b&s did better than Aion in the first month. Whether or not it will be enough is still a question...bit early to tell. It is said the Ntreev acquisition cost them about $100mil and b&s about $50mil...not sure how much gw2 cost them but taking 5 years to develop just like b&s, maybe it's about the same. It is however a bit early to tell...gw2 had some problems and b&s though had a good reception, has decreased in user time drastically after diablo3 launched. EDIT: With some talk about refocusing their business, they did mention they are but not where/how they're refocusing. Not sure if they're going away from the north american region since guild wars 2 is launched in the na/euro territories with no mention of releasing in asia yet. Whatever their full reasons are i'm not sure that's a simple answer as just doing away with NA. However one might feel about CoX, in the overall picture, CoX's revenue barely constitues 2% of NCSoft's total revenue. Unless something drastic happens to that other 98%, i don't think NCSoft is going anywhere anytime soon. |
Lots of speculation, zero facts.
Someone else speculated that NCsoft is dumping projects that are only in the NA/EU market -- that they want to only go with titles that are both in the west and east. GW2 is getting released in China at some point.
Lots of speculation, zero facts. |
News is in a flurry so possibly missed some...if you can have that person post a link for that info would be nice. (Not implying any issues with validity...i just like collecting news links to things i'm interested in)
Last news i saw was in this one in 8/15/12 that mentions:
Guildwar2 is focusing on North America and Europe online game market and has not been decided for other territories. |
FYI: I have pm disabled since forever...if there's a question you can ask in the threads.
I don't think boycotting is the answer. I may try GW2 soon. I played COX since 2005 and will miss the game, the many players, etc. But I hope after a few more weeks most of us will have processed the frustration of a change in our second life as we say goodbye to COX.
It was fun, I'll miss the character creation, the gameplay, and you fun monkeybunch.
-BurnSucka.
"Melt 'em like butters!"
News is in a flurry so possibly missed some...if you can have that person post a link for that info would be nice. (Not implying any issues with validity...i just like collecting news links to things i'm interested in)
Last news i saw was in this one in 8/15/12 that mentions: That also mentions B&S troubles. FYI: I have pm disabled since forever...if there's a question you can ask in the threads. |
Hmm, the theory that they might be refocusing on games that are more global in reach (works in eastern and western territories) is sounding better. Not necessarily abandoning NA but maybe a game that speaks to both NA and asia.
That's interesting...CoX does seem to be one of or the only current game that couldn't get traction in asia...City of Hero didn't last at all in Korea.
That is unlikely the case, as more info comes up.
Apparently NCSoft purchased another company called Ntreev Soft for 96.7 million. This plus unexpected or badly predicted profits for the quarter from the free to play model of Aion likely resulted in a loss of 6 million in last quarter. (Note: I'm not saying Aion had losses, I am saying it did not perform insanely amazingly, it just did moderately amazingly) That strong-arms a movement to restructure the company in some way, even if it's to axe low profit studios, to start making up for it. In manpower alone, Paragon Studios likely cost about 6 million a year (if you assume an average of 75k cost per employee a year, an actually low number when you consider health insurance and other benefits) plus any office space rent. Given Paragon Studios yield the lowest returns on the company, it became the immediate target for axing. |
If City of Heroes is merely breaking even, then killing it outright kills any income from it, so shutting it down is a wash when it comes to the bottom line; it doesn't save them anything, it doesn't help them cover their shortfall, except insofar as it could be considered an 'asset' that they would be able to claim a loss on -- and if it's not making money for them, it has no real value as an asset, and I would expect that all the server hardware would already be fully depreciated.
If City of Heroes is turning a profit, then killing it deprives NCSoft of that profit while giving them only a one-time opportunity to claim a loss on the value of the game. If NCSoft expects a writeoff like that to balance the books enough for GW2 to bring them back into the green, they're betting the company on the success of one game following pissing off a tightly-knit and vocal player community. Passing up the opportunity to show off the GW2 beta at Comic-Con, where they could have whipped up a lot of buzz about the game, and following it up with the negative PR fallout from the cavalier way they threw the CoH playerbase into the dumpster, don't seem like good business decisions to me.
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
I don't think boycotting is the answer. I may try GW2 soon. I played COX since 2005 and will miss the game, the many players, etc. But I hope after a few more weeks most of us will have processed the frustration of a change in our second life as we say goodbye to COX.
It was fun, I'll miss the character creation, the gameplay, and you fun monkeybunch. -BurnSucka. "Melt 'em like butters!" |
The Case Against Hardcase- arc id: 438272
Clowning Around- arc id: 408447
Down the Rabbit Hole- arc id: 193055
Frankly? Yep. They're in bed with traitors. Sorry guys and gals of ArenaNet. You should totally buy yourselves out of their grasp.
Mike
/maybe a teensy bit harsh... but then, we're bein' treated a lot worse harse, IMO.
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
Frankly? Yep. They're in bed with traitors. Sorry guys and gals of ArenaNet. You should totally buy yourselves out of their grasp.
Mike /maybe a teensy bit harsh... but then, we're bein' treated a lot worse harse, IMO. |
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
So, why dont you blame Paragon Studio's for not getting away from NCsoft a few years ago...
See, although you are blaming Arena.net for sleeping with the enemy, you ahve to remember that Paragon Studio's slept with the enemy whilst 2 other MMO's were closed down.
Meh, most Europeans have known for years that NCSoft were likely to pull something like this at some point. They did it to most of the European NCSoft team, again pretty much out of the blue and with little or no warning.
Boycott them if it makes you feel better, but don't be surprised by it. It's in their nature.
No offense, but if you are going to take that point of view, then Paragon Studios should have done something similar when Auto Assault and TR were closed down
![]() So, why dont you blame Paragon Studio's for not getting away from NCsoft a few years ago... See, although you are blaming Arena.net for sleeping with the enemy, you ahve to remember that Paragon Studio's slept with the enemy whilst 2 other MMO's were closed down. |
If they shut down a game you say you love but you keep giving them your money then you are an ******* idiot. If you defend your idiocy then you an *******.
The Case Against Hardcase- arc id: 438272
Clowning Around- arc id: 408447
Down the Rabbit Hole- arc id: 193055
Don't try and distract us from the argument with false equivalencies . I would not expect anyone playing Auto Assault or TR to keep playing COH for the same reason I think anyone who wants to keep playing GW2 who plays COHis an a$$hole.
If they shut down a game you say you love but you keep giving them your money then you are an ******* idiot. If you defend your idiocy then you an *******. |
Multiple copies.
The more people like this I see, the more I'm tempted to buy GW2.
Multiple copies. |
It's rather good. Nice evolution on the standard fantasy MMO set-up geared towards always exploring your enviroment rather than running from A to B and then back to A again.
Don't try and distract us from the argument with false equivalencies . I would not expect anyone playing Auto Assault or TR to keep playing COH for the same reason I think anyone who wants to keep playing GW2 who plays COHis an a$$hole.
If they shut down a game you say you love but you keep giving them your money then you are an ******* idiot. If you defend your idiocy then you an *******. |
Why did I still support City of Heroes? Because I still *enjoyed* the game. I still had a lot of friends who played the game, and to be honest, it sucks not being able to play the same game as them.
Sure, I loved TR, and had a fling with Auto Assault.. but I still loved and enjoyed City of Heroes (when I didn't burn out on it). So I still supported it, played it, complained about it. But I *never* once thought twice about not giving Paragon Studios my money when I wanted to.
Yes, it sucks... yes it hurts... but if you are going to go around and accuse Arena.net of being bad and sleeping with the enemy, then Paragon Studios are just as guilty of it.
Sorry, Gangrel, but revenge trumps reason. Even if the revenge will actively hurt yourself and ensure the things you don't want to happen will happen, while being completely and totally ineffective (hahaha... boycotting, yeah, like those have worked for gaming in the past).
The cries for boycotting are purely based on emotions... unfortunately, such untempered emotions are doing absolutely nothing in helping us liberate CoH from the clutches of NCSoft, if not actually harming the efforts. But people refuse to see that, because they're only trying to make themselves feel better, to hell with the game!
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Sorry, Gangrel, but revenge trumps reason. Even if the revenge will actively hurt yourself and ensure the things you don't want to happen will happen, while being completely and totally ineffective (hahaha... boycotting, yeah, like those have worked for gaming in the past).
The cries for boycotting are purely based on emotions... unfortunately, such untempered emotions are doing absolutely nothing in helping us liberate CoH from the clutches of NCSoft, if not actually harming the efforts. But people refuse to see that, because they're only trying to make themselves feel better, to hell with the game! |
*sets fire to his CoX collection*
NOOOOOOOOO!, My komputah!
The more people like this I see, the more I'm tempted to buy GW2.
Multiple copies. |
But don't tell me you love COH.
And it IS all about revenge. I want to see NCSoft burn for this.
I'm not delusional enough to think somehow they will see reason and sell the game to someone or give out the code. That is not their MO.
They give a big middle finger to the COH community, I'm giving them two back.
Go on and enjoy GW2 while it lasts. I'll be the one laughing when thewy shut it down.
The Case Against Hardcase- arc id: 438272
Clowning Around- arc id: 408447
Down the Rabbit Hole- arc id: 193055
I will never play CoH under Cryptic or any company that owns them. Jack made a point to tell this community, over and over on these forums, things like Side Switching and Power Customization were not possible, and more to the point, not part of his "vision."
The devs at Paragon never trumped out the Vision statement. They treated us with respect and became part of us. They even did what Jack, now that it's apparent, refused to do because he viewed the game as his playground and not the players. The problem with that is the players "are" the heart of the game. Ignore them and you get what's happening with other games. No, if Cryptic sabotaged the game I will never forgive them, especially Mr. Vision. So, as a favor to all of us, and I do appreciate all the efforts to save the game, but if Cryptic/PW had anything to do with this I do not want them in charge. I would rather be left with the good memories I have of a team that loved us rather than the potential jerks that didn't. |
Jack never said nuffin about power-customization. It was probably me that said something about it and probably before the switch from working for Cryptic to working for Paragon (or shortly after). At the time, it was impossible. We didn't have the code to support it and it would require rebuilding every single player power effect, something that just wasn't feasible for one person who was the sole animator and VFX artist on the project at the time.
I did manage to get weapon customization in, because that was something we did have a way of doing.
Fast-forward a couple of years and Paragon's humming along, Champs is on the horizon trumpeting 'power customization' as a huge selling point and I, in a competitive spirit that I'm sure Jack would appreciate, decided we were going to beat them to the punch.
So I pushed for the feature. I came up with a way to do it. Wrote out a detailed process so one of the programmers could write a python script to do most of the heavy lifting. Then I and Keetsie (Tunnel Rat)--mostly Keetsie if memory serves--put a lot of time and work into tweaking a few values in every single player power particle and FX script. The UI interface was designed, implemented, code was written.
In short, it was a metric ****-ton of work. It was crazily expensive to implement, took a long time, and involved a lot of work from many people...which did not result in any real measurable gains for the game or studio. New player didn't flock to the game. Current players didnt' throw buckets of money at out feet. You guys playing at the time enjoyed it and appreciated it...but from a business perspective, it was a recklessly stupid thing to do. I'm honestly shocked it happened.
It's still one of my proudest accomplishments.
People talk a lot about Jack's vision this and Jack's vision that, but reality is that by the time CoH was being offered to NCSoft, Jack's "vision" was focused on other projects at Cryptic. Cryptic needed those other projects to keep it's doors open. So when Jack would say X wasn't possible, it was because little Timmy, who was actually working with X, told Jack, "X is probably not possible, and here's why..."
In reality, practically nothing is really impossible, but if it's going to take a dozen people 6 months to implement and probably not be a net gain for the business, then it's "impossible".
Side-switching was another one of those things. Technically, very possible. It's a couple of flags to flip on a character. BAM. Your Tank is a villain. Problem is, you've got no contacts, no way to get new missions, no story explanation as to why it happened, nothing organic about the process, etc. Again, I was involved in a lot of those conversations about 'Going Rogue' and it was a TON of work from multiple people to get implemented.
Nowadays, Jack is the CEO at Cryptic. He has very little to do with games. Other people have stepped in and provided 'visions' because no game, NO GAME, gets done without someone having a vision for it. And no one person's vision is going to match every single player's vision. Hell, it won't even match half the developers vision.
As for rumors of Cryptic/PWE sabotaging CoH. There's one company and one company alone responsible for this. NCSoft. It was their decision to pull the plug on this, and it's perfectly in line with things they've done to other games and studios in the past.
FYI, I worked on Auto Assault, I worked for Cryptic on CoH, then Paragon on CoH, and I'm now back at Cryptic on something not CoH. Friday's news went through cryptic like a cold ripple. We were as shocked and dismayed as many of you. While many people who originally worked on CoH have moved on to other things, some to Paragon, some to other ventures entirely, there are still a lot of people at Cryptic who put love and care into this game that has so profoundaly touched all of our lives.
God, it's nice to not be a redname anymore. I can say things like metric ****-ton!
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
Say what you want about Jack, and believe me I've said plenty, he was nice enough to let NCSoft buy the game instead of shutting it down.
The Case Against Hardcase- arc id: 438272
Clowning Around- arc id: 408447
Down the Rabbit Hole- arc id: 193055
Buy whatever the hell you want. It's a semi free country.
But don't tell me you love COH. And it IS all about revenge. I want to see NCSoft burn for this. I'm not delusional enough to think somehow they will see reason and sell the game to someone or give out the code. That is not their MO. They give a big middle finger to the COH community, I'm giving them two back. Go on and enjoy GW2 while it lasts. I'll be the one laughing when thewy shut it down. |
F-ing Sith Lords...
It's damn ironic that the same, unwilling to see both sides, scorched earth bull that you're espousing is exactly what you claim is bad about NCSoft.
And yeah, if I buy GW2 and enjoy it, then when NCsoft shuts it down I expect I'll be laughing right alongside you, because I'll have enjoyed years of entertainment while you simmered in years of rage and bile.
Good luck with your hate-fest. Remember to have your blood pressure checked.
Thanks for the info, BaBs. Good to have you peeling back the curtain.
Edit - I should add, that while Power Customization may not have made new money, it sure kept me playing longer. So, NC probably got several hundred dollars extra from us, due to being able to realize so many more characters.
Again, for emphasis, this is just mere speculation. There is no evidence whatsoever this is bona fide reason.