Why? The Answer is in NCsoft's August 8th Earnings Report
By
Adelie,
Posted on: 2012-09-01 05:17 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Changed my post because I don't want to start any more arguments in this thread.
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I never said I only ate 1 meal a day, nor did I say that $15 bucks was my entire budget for groceries. I said that $15 bucks buys me food for almost 2 1/2 months. |
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
They're not engineering students, I'll tell you that.
You would live on one packet of Ramen noodles per day? Freakin' stupid people. Also, I'm type-1 diabetic, I have dietary needs that can't be met by a Ramen-a-day diet. Admittedly, no human being on Earth could survive on one Ramen per day, so I think you're being pretty damn disingenuous for the purpose of argumentation. |
Unlike you I shop wisely and make bulk purchases of inexpensive food items that last for months.
I also grow my own berries, vegetables, and herbs. I learned how to can and make preserves as a kid with my aunt, but anyone can do the same.
Nope the only person being disingenuous is you for making assumptions.
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I'm sorry, are your reading skills failing you? Because I have said REPEATEDLY that this is not the reason that the game was axed. Learn to read like the big boys, and THEN you can post with everyone else, kay? Good.
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Originally Posted by BenRGamer
Yes, because if this ONE PERSON could have paid the sub fee the game would have been perfect, Bio Armor would have been out last week and they'd have announced the Sports Car travel power.
Why don't you get over yourself. The game's going down and it's not anyone's fault. So quit blaming people and bringing these forums down with whining. |
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
I should be nice and back out of this thread, but I just had an amusing thought...
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Paladiamors, your join date is Jul 2011. Even if you've been subbed non-stop since that time I've spent more money, overall, on sub fees for this game than you have. So has A_C, I'd imagine. I recall seeing him around the forums quite a lot back in the day.|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
My god, you get more and more full of yourself, and more and more loaded with absolute crap. Do us all a favor and just shut up already.
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Be careful with those stones in your glass house, eh?
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| unlike you i shop wisely and make bulk purchases of inexpensive food items that last for months. |
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| nope the only person being disingenuous is you for making assumptions. |
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
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Nightshade? At what point, in this thread, have I ever mentioned you? And how many times have I actually said that it is NOT the subs that got it canceled?
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Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree
I should be nice and back out of this thread, but I just had an amusing thought...
Paladiamors, your join date is Jul 2011. Even if you've been subbed non-stop since that time I've spent more money, overall, on sub fees for this game than you have. So has A_C, I'd imagine. I recall seeing him around the forums quite a lot back in the day. Be careful with those stones in your glass house, eh? |
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
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Originally Posted by BenRGamer
Changed my post because I don't want to start any more arguments in this thread.
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Good idea, I was just about to point out that it wasn't ONE person not paying to play the game that caused these problems but HUNDREDS at least, more likely THOUSANDS that weren't paying to play. And again I'm not including the Prems that supported the game thru the store. Just the deadbeat freeloaders that weren't spending a dime.
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Well it's true there are others but I don't feel it's necessary to bring them into a discussion between you and I. |
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
orly thar
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And I honestly don't think it was the subs at all. Yes, maybe if we'd had several more thousands of subs we might not have gotten axed. But maybe we still would have. Maybe NCsoft was just looking for a reason to get rid of City of Heroes. Either way it doesn't matter, whats done is done.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Good idea, I was just about to point out that it wasn't ONE person not paying to play the game that caused these problems but HUNDREDS at least, more likely THOUSANDS that weren't paying to play. And again I'm not including the Prems that supported the game thru the store. Just the deadbeat freeloaders that weren't spending a dime.
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"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
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Such nonsense. Why have a ******* F2P option if you're not supposed to be freely playing. You really think most of those people would still have played without the F2P option?|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Good idea, I was just about to point out that it wasn't ONE person not paying to play the game that caused these problems but HUNDREDS at least, more likely THOUSANDS that weren't paying to play. And again I'm not including the Prems that supported the game thru the store. Just the deadbeat freeloaders that weren't spending a dime.
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It's like movie/game/music piracy. Most of the people who download would not have purchased anyway. The industry loses nothing, yet they still get the blame for financial collapse.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
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Previous page....|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
Nightshade? At what point, in this thread, have I ever mentioned you? And how many times have I actually said that it is NOT the subs that got it canceled?
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
Except he IS right. Not entirely, mind you, but if you weren't paying in some way then you weren't supporting the game.
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Oh, and it's good to see Forbin is as intransigent as ever. I remember having a big long argument with him about... something... a couple of years ago. Probably soloable TFs. Nice to know some things are still the same - even at the end of things.
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And you know what? It still doesn't matter. They didn't have to pay to play the game. That's what Free to Play means.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Good idea, I was just about to point out that it wasn't ONE person not paying to play the game that caused these problems but HUNDREDS at least, more likely THOUSANDS that weren't paying to play. And again I'm not including the Prems that supported the game thru the store. Just the deadbeat freeloaders that weren't spending a dime.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Good idea, I was just about to point out that it wasn't ONE person not paying to play the game that caused these problems but HUNDREDS at least, more likely THOUSANDS that weren't paying to play. And again I'm not including the Prems that supported the game thru the store. Just the deadbeat freeloaders that weren't spending a dime.
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Let them play the game they want as long they made people who paid happy .
So what I came back last month , went to beta server , say all the fun for future ,
Went back to live purchased 3 month sub , and 160 euro worth of paragon points .
That means I paid for 10 people ? no I paid cause I had fun !
If Bioarmour was released on live this month I would have IO it out at cost of 500 euro .
Makes me a beter contributor or a mad idiot ? , that isn't the reason .
So what money ,wasn't the reason for this debacle or downfall .
People should spend there diposable income , to each person that is different .
People mentality were changing , just not fast enough for NCSOFT !
Since NEXON has become bigger then EA , cooperate structure is smelling the money .
Paragon Studios was also slowly changing , but they never ever embraced the concept of moaners City of Money ...
Infact sub and free players had it very good in this game .
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If you aren't subbed or aren't buying, then you aren't financially supporting. That doesn't mean you haven't in the past, it means you weren't currently. Thats not even debatable. I'm not even saying its a bad thing, people have reasons for not wanting or being unable to sub or buy. I just don't quite understand why people feel the need to make excuses for not, or trying to pretty it up. It's not like it even matters.|
Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree
Previous page....
That said, I'm glad you agree that it wasn't the subs (or lack thereof) that got the game cancelled. Sadly others seem to think differently, and I dislike the idea that some of the forum regulars here are judging people like myself on the current colour of our names. Oh, and it's good to see Forbin is as intransigent as ever. I remember having a big long argument with him about... something... a couple of years ago. Probably soloable TFs. Nice to know some things are still the same - even at the end of things. |
But like I said, it's moot. That's not the reason. CoH was still making money, Paragon was still profitable.
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
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I agree. How much the game was making is only a small part of it. It's far more likely that by using creative accounting NCSoft can make it look like they are "saving" more money by shutting us down. That's why I don't trust anything they put in their financial statements.|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
And I honestly don't think it was the subs at all. Yes, maybe if we'd had several more thousands of subs we might not have gotten axed. But maybe we still would have. Maybe NCsoft was just looking for a reason to get rid of City of Heroes. Either way it doesn't matter, whats done is done.
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This type of downsizing tomfoolery has been going on all over for decades.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I agree. How much the game was making is only a small part of it. It's far more likely that by using creative accounting NCSoft can make it look like they are "saving" more money by shutting us down. That's why I don't trust anything they put in their financial statements.
This type of downsizing tomfoolery has been going on all over for decades. |
Exactly , I smell this debacle is rubbishe , they want to withdraw from market of the west.
But with as little face lost and as little harm done to there other western projects .
Like GW2 , but truth is , it is rubbishe by sinking the world n1 super heroes MMO game ?
That didn't even made losses but a steady profit ?
Totally crap story . in my eyes .
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You know.... I had a great Idea I may just put to NC, seeing as they are such a switched on company and all...|
Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
Well, if they are trying to invest in something with a better return they would do it. Though as I wrote on the previous page, that still seems like a bad idea.
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Super heroes are more in the public conciousness than ever before. And, judging by the billions of dollars spent in the cinema, people like super heroes. And, best of all, the very target market a company like NC wants to attract are a sizeable amount of the people spending those dollars.
Now if NC could only put out a super hero MMO and market the thing to just a small fraction of those people, surely a small number of those said people (in the 15-35 age bracket) might just try the game....
Oh wait.....
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
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Yeah yeah business is business, the only thing that matters in the bottom line yada yada yada etc etc.
The fact remains, they did not walk into work on Friday and decide on a whim to shut the game down; they knew this for some time and to continue to offer market items and transactions knowing damn well in a matter of weeks they would be useless is not only irresponsible but it speaks volumes as to what NCSoft really thinks about its player base.
I hope as part of their restructuring they rename themselves and hide their corporate history very well, because NCSoft will never get another dime from me.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
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Arc ID: 413575
Blaming "freeloaders" is a massive failure of reasoning.
If the "freeloaders" were what caused the game to go down, then the root cause would then be that Paragon went F2P without managing to monetize free players adequately.
So NCSoft didn't kill CoH - it was suicide.
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+1|
Originally Posted by Brillig
Blaming "freeloaders" is a massive failure of reasoning.
If the "freeloaders" were what caused the game to go down, then the root cause would then be that Paragon went F2P without managing to monetize free players adequately. |
I'm surprised nobody has yet to blame mission bonuses and mission reduced debt yet. After all before they implemented that street sweeping was a viable leveling strategy and kept the streets and skies full of heroes instead of ghost towns with heroes seen only when they were going door to door and that is rare today with all the methods of zone and mission travel now available. Honestly if you were a new player in an MMO and you see visually maybe five others in your zone you are going to start questioning the population and therefore the popularity.
And that brings me to a comment I read about F2P MMOs that other players are content. I never considered the F2P players as freeloaders, just potential VIP players or point buyers. It hurt that we didn't have a points card in the stores. Face it not all teenagers have credit/debit cards or a paypal account. Video game habits have always been a cash only business, a way to hide your addiction, whether it was feeding quarters into Defender in the 70s or buying virtual cash for your game console today.
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Why blame the "freeloaders?" The game is advertised as free to play. So, what do you expect?
Although, someone posted that how can a game making a profit impinge on the companys botton line negatively? That's a question that is confounding me.
If NC wanted to redirect Paragon Studios staff onto a project they thought may make more money, maybe I could see the business sense. But they let the devs go.
I'm not convinced that this is a decision based on fiscal priorities at all. More likely some internal politics are at work here.
It seems to me that cutting loose a (abiet small) profit making concern and throwing 80 jobs on the scrap heap so suddenly, without warning and without making at least some effort to salvage the game (or the studio) suggests that finances were NOT the cause of this.
What gets me is that the devs clearly didnt see this was coming, or even that it was a serious threat. That means there were no emails from NC, no conferences with Positron about targets not being met. No warnings that things must improve. And the devs, who do know a thing or two about subscriptions and money, were not alarmed by the current activety within the game.
Wouldn't you know if the company you were working for was doing badly? You get to see the figures. You can do maths. You feel an atmosphere. Tongues start wagging. You may not be sure but you start looking over your shoulder..start preparing for the worst...yet this seems to have been a total shock to Paragon studios. Which suggests they had no reason to believe the game is under performing. Which tells me that, based on any paremeters they worked on, they weren't.
I think something completely different to money is behind this. But we may never know exactly what.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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Can't speak for everyone, but I'm blaming everyone because I'm pissed off. I'm even blaming those guys that kept casting Speed Boost on me when I didn't want it.|
Originally Posted by lionsbane_EU
Why blame the "freeloaders?"
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| Although, someone posted that how can a game making a profit impinge on the companys botton line negatively? That's a question that is confounding me. |
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| If NC wanted to redirect Paragon Studios staff onto a project they thought may make more money, maybe I could see the business sense. But they let the devs go. |
It's part of that creative accounting crap.
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| I think something completely different to money is behind this. But we may never know exactly what. |
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For all we know the switch to the F2P CoH:Freedom system might itself have been a compromise that avoided a shutdown of the game as early as last year. It could have been a "last chance" maneuver that was given some time to work but ultimately didn't save the game. *shrugs*
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Originally Posted by Brillig
Blaming "freeloaders" is a massive failure of reasoning.
If the "freeloaders" were what caused the game to go down, then the root cause would then be that Paragon went F2P without managing to monetize free players adequately. So NCSoft didn't kill CoH - it was suicide. |
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Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.