Why? The Answer is in NCsoft's August 8th Earnings Report
By
Adelie,
Posted on: 2012-09-01 05:17 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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and the same could be extended for those who were by saving themselves money by buying multi-month subscription deals....sure, it was only a few dollars or pounds you were saving...|
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
Unfair? Perhaps. But also true. If you're not supporting with either market purchases or subscription fees, then you're contributing to the reasons for cancellation.
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/sarcasm
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THat is my thinking as well... that NCsoft are planning to pull out of the western market *directly* and instead start getting the Eastern MMO's that they have done licensed over here (like they have now down with Aion in Europe with Gametap).
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
sigh
Okay, I think we can all agree that the vast majority of players in this game are from the North American (aka Western Hemisphere) and Europe. The Q2 earnings from these two regions is 6482 million KW or 5% of NCSoft's earnings excluding royalty income. CoH earnings was 2855 million KW. If nearly all of CoH income comes from the NA and EU regions then CoH represents 44% of the income from these regions. Yes the game is a small fish when compared to their hugely successful games in Asia (Korea, Japan and Taiwan represent 95% of their income base) but we are a big chunk in our neck of the woods. Now perhaps NCSoft is looking at withdrawing development support from the NA and EU regions now that GW2 is done since all the one time sales of that game will bolster the income from NA and EU regions for sure in Q4. Their major MMOs from Asia obviously aren't hitting it off here that well. Maybe they decided they simply don't grok us and write the region off, just cash in on the GW2 sales for the short term, maybe finance an expansion pack or two if sales of the core game continues strong, but if I worked for ArenaNet, I'll be worry that their owners won't be interested in another costly multiyear development cycle for a GW3. And depending how far along Wildstar is coming along (as well as whether or not they think it'll play in Asia), they may go all Studio 38 on them as well. |
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Absolutely, Manpower can cost you upwards of 50% expense wise, but without it the you've got a car without a mechanic.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
A bit, but porbably not enough - the dev team will cost more to fund than the servers.
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Superhero comics at least generally don't sell all that well outside of North America. It's no surprise to me that an old MMO with it's own superhero mythos isn't really all that popular, in, say, Asian markets, even considering how popular the recent superhero movies have been. |
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
sigh
Okay, I think we can all agree that the vast majority of players in this game are from the North American (aka Western Hemisphere) and Europe. The Q2 earnings from these two regions is 6482 million KW or 5% of NCSoft's earnings excluding royalty income. CoH earnings was 2855 million KW. If nearly all of CoH income comes from the NA and EU regions then CoH represents 44% of the income from these regions. Yes the game is a small fish when compared to their hugely successful games in Asia (Korea, Japan and Taiwan represent 95% of their income base) but we are a big chunk in our neck of the woods. Now perhaps NCSoft is looking at withdrawing development support from the NA and EU regions now that GW2 is done since all the one time sales of that game will bolster the income from NA and EU regions for sure in Q4. Their major MMOs from Asia obviously aren't hitting it off here that well. Maybe they decided they simply don't grok us and write the region off, just cash in on the GW2 sales for the short term, maybe finance an expansion pack or two if sales of the core game continues strong, but if I worked for ArenaNet, I'll be worry that their owners won't be interested in another costly multiyear development cycle for a GW3. And depending how far along Wildstar is coming along (as well as whether or not they think it'll play in Asia), they may go all Studio 38 on them as well. |
Then there's the matter of CoH's mostly non-existent advertising.
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
Although I loved this game, I do understand making tough decisions for the sake of profitability. The platform they have, even with free2play, is not sustainable, developers and servers cost money.
A great solution is to create a CoH game that is stand alone and can be played on line, much like GW and GW2. If they are willing to sell the rights, this is how I would resurrect the franchise.
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The reason for this is that while both games were FTP, COH's store prices were reasonable. Aion's were the most money grubbing, gouging I've ever seen. In COH a costume set that could be used by all characters as many times as you want was half the price of an Aion costume piece that could be used by one character only once. In COH the price of an enhancement tray upgrade that doubled your enhancement size from 10 to 20 was half the price of a paying for a 9 slot inventory increase from 108 to 117. |
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
One more thing: also notice that the Earnings Report is calling Aion's game sales numbers "weak" by comparison (top of PDF page 5) -- a comment which speaks volumes considering that Aion's sales were *much higher* than City of Heroes and Guild Wars (1) combined.
If that statement doesn't convince anyone that NCsoft viewed CoH as an underperforming liability that was dragging down their bottom line into the negative, then I don't know what will. |
It's an issue of price pointing. If you set your price for an item at $5 and 10,000 ($50,000 earnings) vs $20 and 1000 ($20,000) the lower price is more profitable. It's one of the reasons why in this down economy McDonalds is so profitable. COH's sales down --- the game was FREE. COH's earnings for the store I'd like to see, because Aion's had to be sucking wind. Because of the price pointing I was willing to spend hundreds in COH. Not in Aion.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
I just listened to the Q2 earnings report conference call, as linked in the OP. Yes, the whole thing. These calls are painful enough, but to have to listen to everything in Korean and then again in English... torture.
Our little game was mentioned one time and only factually as they went over slide 5. There was more discussion about the baseball team NC owns in a Korean league. There was even a question about liquidating some of the properties (like Arenanet) but nothing about CoH/V or Paragon. There seemed to be a general apprehension about the future of online games and PC games as well, but I may be reading too much into that.
None of the questions from any of the investment firms were about CoH/V, but a lot of time was spent talking about headcount. NCSoft made a clear point that headcount would NOT increase. No doubt this is a key management focus. Headcount always is, especially in light of reporting a loss. It seems to me that, with managing headcount being a priority the low hanging fruit was Paragon.
I believe that even being slightly profitable wouldn't have helped Paragon. Headcount just needed to go down.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
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Stupid. That doesn't make your point at all.|
Originally Posted by CptShwan
Also, for those who want ammunition for the "They shuttered CoH for their servers" argument:
http://techland.time.com/2012/08/29/...me-experience/ |
GW2 isn't shutting down sales because it's run out of servers. They had TWICE this many servers running during beta. They HAVE servers. They released only a limited amount in an attempt to control and balance population, so you don't have what you usually have in an MMO release, which is several very crowded servers, and a bunch of ghost-town servers that get worse and worse as the initial rush wears off. Since WvWvW is actually a very important part of their game design, keeping the server populations roughly even is actually a very important QOL point for the game.
They're shutting down sales because they're having infrastructure problems and want the game to be stable for the people who ALREADY paid for the game before they let it ramp up any further. And it will, because it's a great game.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
Yeah. Because that link provides no ammunition for that argument at all.
How does having servers in three months help GW2 now? It's an absurd argument. You don't shut down a profitable business line because of a temporary shortage in another. |
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Know something, I was wondering about that this afternoon.|
Originally Posted by Starsman
The good side of this line of thought is, if it was about money, then it is more likely that Cryptic may be able to acquire the game back... IF they see any interest in doing so.
They are the most likely ones to do so since they would not face any issues with the license of the engine, since... its already theirs. |
If Cryptic would buy City Of Heroes back, I would shed tears of great joy, and probably need to buy another batch of contact lens as my contacts do not handle the protein from tears very well..and I have cried buckets since yesterday...
I went to work both with dirty clothes today because I did not have it in me to do a load of laundry, and with a headache because I was so upset I did not sleep very well last night.
Know that while I was a solo player, I was VIP and spent hundreds of dollars in the Paragon Market. I did all I could to support the game...and I am going to miss it horribly....
Lisa-Misting up.
So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try
***Dennis DeYoung
You know, one thing occurred to me after reading a thread from Feb 2011 saying that CoH was #8 on the list of MMOs by subscribers.
Well, I just checked MMOData.net. City of Heroes is, despite its relatively low numbers, still #8 in the top ten MMO subscribers list.
I repeat that for emphasis: out of the dozens of MMOs out there (most of which are trying to be just like WoW but failing), only seven are doing better than CoH. (WoW is doing so well that it's listed on there three times, but I'm counting WoW East, WoW West, and WoW Global as a single game)
Maybe CoH was the worst-performing NCSoft game (and, looking at those numbers actually confirms that), but I don't see how they can even pretend to think that throwing WoW Clone #2890174831 up against the 800-pound gorilla that is WoW itself is going to make them more money than the wholly original (in all senses of the word) product that was CoH.
People may leave WoW for the chance to play Batman or Spider-Man clones (again, eighth most subscribers in all of MMO-dom), but they're not going to leave WoW for "We're just like the game you were already playing, only with much less content! And far less developed lore! And, since we hate Mac and Linux, our new game is available for fewer operating systems! Why aren't you flocking to it?"
It makes me all the madder.
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Eh heh, trust me, that isn't likely to end well.|
Originally Posted by tanstaafl
With MA that could of been different.
Downsized to a server, and let players create content. |
From the sound of it, City of Heroes may be doing okay on its own, but compared to NCsoft's big earners it's small fry, and just the first to go when things go bad. We've seen it happen to Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa- NCsoft has a lot less patience for Western-oriented properties, I suppose because they simply don't get the market and it has changed too much. I doubt they could sell CoH to someone else either, considering that by MMO standards it's practically prehistoric (ie, older than WoW) and trying to compete with a game that has friggin Batman on the cover.
As dedicated as we all are, there's only so many of us, and CoH fell into MMO obscurity long ago- we're lucky that it's lasted as long as it did, with continuous development rather than a skeleton crew. But no matter how many changes and bells and whistles they add I just don't see how CoH can draw in more new players (the lifeblood of MMOs) nowadays with the younger, shinier, more advanced games to compete with.
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...seriously? Jeez, I take it back, NCsoft ain't got a clue what they're doin.
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Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
You know, one thing occurred to me after reading a thread from Feb 2011 saying that CoH was #8 on the list of MMOs by subscribers.
Well, I just checked MMOData.net. City of Heroes is, despite its relatively low numbers, still #8 in the top ten MMO subscribers list. I repeat that for emphasis: out of the dozens of MMOs out there (most of which are trying to be just like WoW but failing), only seven are doing better than CoH. (WoW is doing so well that it's listed on there three times, but I'm counting WoW East, WoW West, and WoW Global as a single game) Maybe CoH was the worst-performing NCSoft game (and, looking at those numbers actually confirms that), but I don't see how they can even pretend to think that throwing WoW Clone #2890174831 up against the 800-pound gorilla that is WoW itself is going to make them more money than the wholly original (in all senses of the word) product that was CoH. People may leave WoW for the chance to play Batman or Spider-Man clones (again, eighth most subscribers in all of MMO-dom), but they're not going to leave WoW for "We're just like the game you were already playing, only with much less content! And far less developed lore! And, since we hate Mac and Linux, our new game is available for fewer operating systems! Why aren't you flocking to it?" It makes me all the madder. |
Bottom line short of cash , cut the lowest income project , sounds fair ..
But still in the red , means wrong project cancelled ,
Especially a project that brought stable income trough all the years , the income outweight the cost .
Sure development cost of CoH2 could be tied into NCSOFT future development .
Since NCSOFT somehow even manage to lose lawsuits of 3 million against a gamer addict playing lineage 2 ...
I think it is time to cut the lawyers cost , especially if they keep losing all the lawsuits.
Honestly a project that brings in more revenue then cost , is selfsustaining ,
No matter the reason , if they wish to retire from the western market !
Then they should have offered Paragon Studios a option to untie themself from NCSOFT.
With coming of GW2 it makes all the postive hype surrounding GW2 worthless.
Nobody is going to invest into a product where the publisher cut and run whenever they feel like it , and make jumpy decisions without looking at the problems .
I guess all future relationship with NCSOFT look very bleak, no matter what the outcome.
They just didn't analyse the situation correctly , even if the west is only 5% of the income.
And withdrawing from that market seem sensible , atleast offer the west a solution .
Sell the IP , allow another publisher to take over for a fair or low price.
Allow Paragon to go independant for % of income .
Any of those options could have been discussed before hand , then 1 day axing of a whole studio, this isn't a business , this is like wierd stuff ...
No ultimatum , no warnings , DEV were still working on I24 .
People were still spendig money , WTF is this ? they want more lawsuits on there hand ?
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Guild Wars 2 still jamming.|
Originally Posted by Lonelyshade
With coming of GW2 it makes all the postive hype surrounding GW2 worthless.
Nobody is going to invest into a product where the publisher cut and run whenever they feel like it , and make jumpy decisions without looking at the problems . |
Servers keep on slamming.
No digital sales gotta throttle down.
Keep them boxes movin.
Metacritic exploding.
Hardcore CoH boi can't take it.
No doubt.
The Street hits back.
Reality can harsh your vibe.
Illusions hold you tight.
Keep your digital lies until the end of night.
*snap*
/endslam
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Good everything is jamming first couple of months including rift , let see in 3 months shall we ?|
Originally Posted by Brillig
Guild Wars 2 still jamming.
Servers keep on slamming. No digital sales gotta throttle down. Keep them boxes movin. Metacritic exploding. Hardcore CoH boi can't take it. No doubt. The Street hits back. Reality can harsh your vibe. Illusions hold you tight. Keep your digital lies until the end of night. *snap* /endslam |
Starting period don't mean a thing anymore for games , secret world , swtor ?
Let see then GW2 server updates and server cost versus the new Iphone/Tablet Gamer generation.
Since they are planning to withdraw from the west , means bad investment for you .
So to invest means pay , paying for virtual goods where they can axe you when they want.
And already proven capable and doing , means only donkeys pay .
GW2 is sales , then earnings from virtual goods . well earnings from virtual goods by a publisher who can axe it anytime they want , means definetly buying air !
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No subs to count.|
Originally Posted by Lonelyshade
Good everything is jamming first couple of months including rift , let see in 3 months shall we ?
Starting period don't mean a thing anymore for games , secret world , swtor ? Let see then GW2 server updates and server cost versus the new Iphone/Tablet Gamer generation. Since they are planning to withdraw from the west , means bad investment for you . So to invest means pay , paying for virtual goods where they can axe you when they want. And already proven capable and doing , means only donkeys pay . GW2 is sales , then earnings from virtual goods . well earnings from virtual goods by a publisher who can axe it anytime they want , means definetly buying air ! |
What does a quarter matter?
Just a fourth of a dollar.
The almight dollar might be free to pay.
Don't count don't stack them high can't see.
Iphone tablets give you cancer.
Can't see no CoH cure there either.
What you dream ain't real, no chance
In your short attention span theater.
Donkeys tilt at windmills bro
They are change on the wind
Go west far enough and you'll be east
You can't withdraw from yourself.
*snap*
/endslam
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Originally Posted by Brillig
No subs to count.
What does a quarter matter? Just a fourth of a dollar. The almight dollar might be free to pay. Don't count don't stack them high can't see. Iphone tablets give you cancer. Can't see no CoH cure there either. What you dream ain't real, no chance In your short attention span theater. Donkeys tilt at windmills bro They are change on the wind Go west far enough and you'll be east You can't withdraw from yourself. *snap* /endslam |
Simply put you are a donkey , have no understanding of finanicial fallacy .
Don't worry soon you will be playing a android or iphone game .
So next gen of idiots too short term sighted and very quick slighted .
all the useless poems
from the people of the internet
let's speak english now.
Why a poem is where the heart is . not where the mind is .
Some people simply have no more minds left , and also no heart.
Some of us have both , other just want to be idiots ...
Not a big deal , but idiots will always remain idiots .
So basically and simply put lovely financiel fallacy... and bad investments , no general oversight , let just sue them .
Easiest way to get the IP .
What are the working conditions for empoyers and advance warning time?
Especially for a profitable business company not in debt .
what are the american rulings about shutting down a division without advance warnings ?
Or indications it would happen ?
Since NCSOFT lawyers must be the most terrible on earth.
They have probaly overlooked some small prints again .
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Keepin ears to the Street|
Originally Posted by Lonelyshade
Simply put you are a donkey , have no understanding of finanicial fallacy .
Don't worry soon you will be playing a android or iphone game . So next gen of idiots too short term sighted and very quick slighted . |
Puts and calls you beat
No need for grinding time
The sands condense to rhyme
Ahead you think you see
Been there a time or three
Bigger fools been wrong before
Can't count them any more
Fools break mirrors they don't own
Bad fortune that they've never known
Put the glass into your eyes
See better when the truth does rise
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Originally Posted by Brillig
Keepin ears to the Street
Puts and calls you beat No need for grinding time The sands condense to rhyme Ahead you think you see Been there a time or three Bigger fools been wrong before Can't count them any more Fools break mirrors they don't own Bad fortune that they've never known Put the glass into your eyes See better when the truth does rise |
The truth stares you in the eyes , maybe you are just too blind .
Facts are there for everybody to find ,
While your rhymes are funny , they are not created from the heart.
They are just words from a twisted mind .
How many times do we have to proof you wrong ?
Some of us do challenge the rights .
how many times does NCSOFT has to see the lights .
There lawyer stinks and are only bluff ,
even in a appeal they were worthless lot .
And tabula rasa still stings , let see this year lawsuit NCSOFT wins.
I am going to have fun , since you really do not know anything ,
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...n-masse-ncsoft
So no win again ... settled but no big win .
In there own home country .
2011
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/10/25/ri...-ncsoft-again/
Appeal lost ... >.<
Godsake there lawyers are terrible , so what are they spending on , to appeal and coming out with bigger cost and bigger payment ?
Cut the cost on the lawyers , sorry worthless lot , find a beter cheaper firm .
Sorry there you go saves you money , now that money can then be pumped back into a selfsustaining bubble like CoH , till GW2 launches .
Then you can decide to cut down GW1 and transfer the people to GW2 .
For longterm vision you can start to sell Paragon Studios , since those worthless lawyers seem to only cost money and loses all lawsuits on fake technicalities .
Downsized to a server, and let players create content.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):