Why? The Answer is in NCsoft's August 8th Earnings Report
By
Adelie,
Posted on: 2012-09-01 05:17 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
The issue with wanting to sub / pay or not was that the Freemium model wasn't that good - you cant have a game calling itself F2P that makes free players objectively weaker than people who pay (i.e. invention origin enhancement limits, Incarnate system block, etc), and I, for one, while loving the game, had no such love for such a model.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Except many didn't. In fact after years of providing them with the best MMO experience out there, they jumped at the chance to cancel their subs.
[...] Deadbeats are deadbeats. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
How do you know "many" didn't? Premium accounts sucked. They were flat out, unadulterated crap compared to a VIP. I highly doubt many people were long-term premium subscribers. And frankly, if the "deadbeats" were really "deadbeats", then they didn't require an ounce of development time because they would never have purchased any of the new sets. They were warm bodies on your teams, and that is invaluable.
|
Please tell me we are not breaking down and pointing fingers at who made CoH fail on the forums...
TPN trial guide video / MoM trial guide video / DD trial guide video / BAF trial guide video
/ Lambda trial guide video / Keyes trial guide video / Magisterium trial guide video / Underground trial guide
Quote:
Unfortunately, that's been happening since about the 2nd page or so of this thread. :P
|
Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
Please tell me we are not breaking down and pointing fingers at who made CoH fail on the forums...
|
Quote:
Sheesh. Listen to yourselves.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
No not every Prem was a freeloading deadbeat and it certainly isn't fair to lump them all under one overly broad generalization because many Prems spent more on the game each month buying stuff from the store than they would have just subscribing, but pretending there weren't any freeloading deadbeats is just foolishness.
|
"People were playing a free to play game for free and not spending money! Those bastards!"
Quote:
Yeah? I've been living on a fixed income for years and I never once allowed my sub to lapse. I've done whatever it took to scrounge up $15 bucks each month.|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
Hi. Some of us have other responsibilities than paying for a game that they're not currently playing. Like, say, eating. Doesn't cheapen the love, it's just called reality.
|
Whiny excuses don't fly.
Quote:
Fixed that for you so you get the actual sentiment.|
Originally Posted by BenRGamer
Sheesh. Listen to yourselves.
"People were playing a free to play game for free and not spending money! Those freeloading deadbeat bastards!" |
Oh and if you don't like what you're reading my friend Batman wants to show you something.
Quote:
"What!? People not spending money on a free video game!? Those monsters!"|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Yeah? I've been living on a fixed income for years and I never once allowed my sub to lapse. I've done whatever it took to scrounge up $15 bucks each month.
Whiny excuses don't fly. |
I've been a VIP and spent alot on this game, but I don't begrudge anyone else who played for free. I'm glad they everyone who played got to enjoy the game while it lasted.
To implode in a blamefest right now is pretty much the worst thing you could do, instead of spending the last few months of the game remembering the fun times you had you just get pissed.
Quote:
Oh that's easy. The ones responsible are the people that kept demanding a character name wipe cuz they couldn't think of an original name. |
Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
Please tell me we are not breaking down and pointing fingers at who made CoH fail on the forums...
|
Quote:
You know what fifteen bucks is to me? A week's worth of food. I'm a college student. I have to pay in thousands and thousands and even more thousands to rent, tuition, books, my medical bills, and other expenses. No whiny excuses here. If I'd sustained my subscription, I would literally not be here right now. It came down to me having about a hundred dollars in the bank when I moved down here to Austin, and that's only because a friend gave me five hundred. So in short, just because you have a "fixed income" doesn't mean you were at the bottom of the rung. I was - because I had no income.
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Yeah? I've been living on a fixed income for years and I never once allowed my sub to lapse. I've done whatever it took to scrounge up $15 bucks each month.
Whiny excuses don't fly. |
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Quote:
I know plenty of college students working multiple jobs while attending college full time, maintaining high grades and supporting a family to boot and maintaining their video game habits.|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
You know what fifteen bucks is to me? A week's worth of food. I'm a college student. I have to pay in thousands and thousands and even more thousands to rent, tuition, books, my medical bills, and other expenses. No whiny excuses here. If I'd sustained my subscription, I would literally not be here right now. It came down to me having about a hundred dollars in the bank when I moved down here to Austin, and that's only because a friend gave me five hundred. So in short, just because you have a "fixed income" doesn't mean you were at the bottom of the rung. I was - because I had no income.
|
People that chose not to pay made a choice. Now the consequences that choice have come back and bit everyone on the ***.
Edit: Oh and that $15 bucks is 72 packs of Ramen noodles or 72 meals. That $15 bucks buys me food for almost 2 1/2 months.
Quote:
Good for you. Not everyone is capable of managing such a thing. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Yeah? I've been living on a fixed income for years and I never once allowed my sub to lapse. I've done whatever it took to scrounge up $15 bucks each month.
Whiny excuses don't fly. |
You have no empathy for the situations of others, and if anything, it's inflexible people like you that held CoH back from changing what was wrong to fix the model, what with your arguing that freedom wasn't needed, that limits on the "freeloaders" that made them feel weaker were OK, and that the better freedom of other F2P games was somehow irrelevant becuase CoH used to be sub-only and somehow made it exempt from needing to compete with other F2Ps.
On another note, It'd be great to see if the previous engineers of the other "preservation" projects would surface now - I haven't seen any sign of them :/
Quote:
Okay, now this is getting old. Blame who you want. The game's going down anyway, you can either whine and moan, or enjoy what time you have left, your choice.
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I know plenty of college students working multiple jobs while attending college full time, maintaining high grades and supporting a family to boot and maintaining their video game habits.
People that chose not to pay made a choice. Now the consequences that choice have come back and bit everyone on the ***. |
Quote:
They're not engineering students, I'll tell you that.| I know plenty of college students working multiple jobs while attending college full time, maintaining high grades and supporting a family to boot and maintaining their video game habits. |
Quote:
| Edit: Oh and that $15 bucks is 72 packs of Ramen noodles or 72 meals. That $15 bucks buys me food for almost 2 1/2 months. |
Also, I'm type-1 diabetic, I have dietary needs that can't be met by a Ramen-a-day diet. Admittedly, no human being on Earth could survive on one Ramen per day, so I think you're being pretty damn disingenuous for the purpose of argumentation.
On the plus side, if indeed I and others like me "killed the game", I'll at least be depriving you of your source of enjoyment. Judging from your posts, that seems like a pretty worthy goal in and of itself.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Quote:
QFT|
Originally Posted by BenRGamer
Okay, now this is getting old. Blame who you want. The game's going down anyway, you can either whine and moan, or enjoy what time you have left, your choice.
|
Also, anyone find any breakthroughs yet on the organization efforts? Been watching the COH-Titan thread and this one, but no dice AFAIK.
Quote:
Uh...how does cutting a property that was making profit, even if it was small, save money?
|
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
Long story short:
1) Q2 2012 was the first time ever that NCsoft was operating with a significantly NEGATIVE profit margin (ouch!). 2) City of Heroes had the lowest performing game sales (even Aion was doing much better...). In a word, it wasn't Cryptic Studios withholding license renewal that doomed CoH... It wasn't NCsoft hating on American gamers... At the end of the day, NCsoft was in the red and they cut the lowest-performing IP in their stable of games (and also the one with a significant mount of unjustifiable expense) just to rescue their bottom line... Can't say I blame them from an investment perspective. Unfortunately for all of us that turned out to be City of Heroes. See for yourself by getting the 2Q 2012, August 8th unaudited earnings report here: http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx I'm sure if NCsoft had maintained a profit this quarter, we wouldn't be in the predicament we are now. But they didn't and the price of doing business in a very competitive industry right now had to be paid... Sorry folks. |
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
Quote:
Exactly - that's the origin of the (quite strong) argument that NCSoft has definitely "done goof'd".
|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
Uh...how does cutting a property that was making profit, even if it was small, save money?
|
Quote:
How about not making excuses for not supporting the game? Thats all you are doing, even when I have said, repeatedly, that I doubt thats the reason. Get over yourself kid, and grow up.
|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
How would you know whether I'm "supporting" it or not? For all you know, in my absence, I'd turned several people onto the game and increased its playerbase, thus earning them more money than by simply subscribing. Don't tell me what I did and did not do like some sanctimonious shaming session. The game died for a lot of reasons, but it was not from a fickle fan base. Even having this conversation implies that accusation, so how about shutting up?
|
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
Quote:
To be fair, if it were really as we see it, then they wouldn't have made the decision. There is some other factor - perhaps the "investment-to-return ratio" mentioned previously. That, I think, is the most plausible of the "money"-type theories.
|
Originally Posted by Ultimate Wrath
Exactly - that's the origin of the (quite strong) argument that NCSoft has definitely "done goof'd".
|
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Quote:
My god, you get more and more full of yourself, and more and more loaded with absolute crap. Do us all a favor and just shut up already.
|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
They're not engineering students, I'll tell you that.
You would live on one packet of Ramen noodles per day? Freakin' stupid people. Also, I'm type-1 diabetic, I have dietary needs that can't be met by a Ramen-a-day diet. Admittedly, no human being on Earth could survive on one Ramen per day, so I think you're being pretty damn disingenuous for the purpose of argumentation. On the plus side, if indeed I and others like me "killed the game", I'll at least be depriving you of your source of enjoyment. Judging from your posts, that seems like a pretty worthy goal in and of itself. |
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
This thread is getting pretty charged. I'd like to respectfully advocate that we all try to focus on supporting one another. We're all hurting here, and we all need one another, now more than ever. Please.
I would be sincerely grateful.
Quote:
|
Newton: I observed Mercury's perihelion moving 43 arc-seconds per century more than it should. Is this WAI? --Einstein |
Enough blaim games , people should pay what they can afford .
That was the deal and will be the deal with F2P .
People have to see F2P as donations , simply put that is all to it .
You know game has ended , bot F2P and SUB suffers the same , all time investment and money investment gone down the drain ..
Friends will be lost , contacts will fade overtime , and worst off all the wonderfull TEAM of people who all made it possible for us to have FUN , will be no more and having to look for new jobs .
Sorry this stunt wasn't about money !
This stunt was a bad tought out decision in business sense .
No matter the justification , Paragon Studios kept and steadily increased there income profit.
It was just not fast enough for the greedy sharks , who make big mistakes .
Wanting the FAT big MONEY nexon is making .
Honestly in due time maybe CoH was going to be there with there coffee talk .
Was just convincing people to pay when they have fun, and stop moaning about money.
You drink how many beers a week ? smoke how much ciggarettes ?
Pay for how many cocktails or dinners , MMO has become something like that .
It is a luxury system , not a alternate way of life .
Quote:
Well, if they are trying to invest in something with a better return they would do it. Though as I wrote on the previous page, that still seems like a bad idea.
|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
Uh...how does cutting a property that was making profit, even if it was small, save money?
|
TPN trial guide video / MoM trial guide video / DD trial guide video / BAF trial guide video
/ Lambda trial guide video / Keyes trial guide video / Magisterium trial guide video / Underground trial guide
Quote:
No excuses here. When you've walked a mile in my shoes, maybe you'll understand my reasoning for cancelling. Honestly, you make it sound like I, a business exec, withheld a tithe from my bonus money that could've saved your damn Grandma. In reality, I, a diabetic college student with thousands in medical bills who needs constant insulin in order to survive, cannot and could not afford to pay for a game that I would not have been playing anyway due to time constraints.|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
How about not making excuses for not supporting the game? Thats all you are doing, even when I have said, repeatedly, that I doubt thats the reason. Get over yourself kid, and grow up.
|
Guess I'll be happy I killed your game too. ENJOY WOW BUDDY BOY
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Quote:
I actually don't blame any of the players, paying or not. I've said that repeatedly. But if you weren't supporting it, then you WEREN'T SUPPORTING IT. Thats not rocket science. I don't really get why people are getting so upset about it. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it, and thats not a big deal.
|
Originally Posted by Lonelyshade
Enough blaim games , people should pay what they can afford .
That was the deal and will be the deal with F2P . People have to see F2P as donations , simply put that is all to it . You know game has ended , bot F2P and SUB suffers the same , all time investment and money investment gone down the drain .. Friends will be lost , contacts will fade overtime , and worst off all the wonderfull TEAM of people who all made it possible for us to have FUN , will be no more and having to look for new jobs . Sorry this stunt wasn't about money ! This stunt was a bad tought out decision in business sense . No matter the justification , Paragon Studios kept and steadily increased there income profit. It was just not fast enough for the greedy sharks , who make big mistakes . Wanting the FAT big MONEY nexon is making . Honestly in due time maybe CoH was going to be there with there coffee talk . Was just convincing people to pay when they have fun, and stop moaning about money. You drink how many beers a week ? smoke how much ciggarettes ? Pay for how many cocktails or dinners , MMO has become something like that . It is a luxury system , not a alternate way of life . |
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
How do you know "many" didn't? Premium accounts sucked. They were flat out, unadulterated crap compared to a VIP. I highly doubt many people were long-term premium subscribers. And frankly, if the "deadbeats" were really "deadbeats", then they didn't require an ounce of development time because they would never have purchased any of the new sets. They were warm bodies on your teams, and that is invaluable.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.