Incarnates, Future Content, VIP v.s. Freemium, Battalion, Ambiguous Lore Justifications
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-07-17 10:07 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I have about 40 50's all at least T3 in all of the incarnate slots many all T4's. I will not take all of them to T4 as a goal, but I have found it might just happen because of the amount of trials I do.
There are a couple of defenders I might not take further after Hybrid, but that is because I will be replacing them with different 50's I have coming.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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* None. |
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
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* One, out of 19 50s. One level shift, T2s in Judgment and Interface. Unlikely to progress further until new solo/non-league content is introduced.
* None.
* All of my other characters. My 50s are retired, and I have plenty of other characters to play.
The idea that you're not a real superhero unless you're an Incarnate needs to die in a fire. Follow the example of the Rikti invasion, where everyone, regardless of level, can participate in some way.
34 heroes,
20 villains, Victory, Justice, Infinity, Virtue, Triumph, Exalted -- some more active than others
I have one 50, he has unlocked Alpha and not slotted anything
I do not expect to have any slotted incarnates, ever
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I have, as a base, just shy of 30 L.50 characters across two accounts. |
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
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Answering more than you asked:
Fully incarnated by your definition - zero.
T4 power in at least one slot - zero
Highest level shift - 3 (two, maybe three characters I can think of off the top of my head.)
Intention of making full incarnates - zero. Might happen, but it won't be from "OMG, I have to do it!"
Characters w Multiple power trees from any single slot - One, I think.
Characters with just Alpha unlocked/slotted - most of those.
Characters with Hybrid unlocked/slotted - zero. (Two close, for unlocks.)
Characters I intend to not touch the system with - Zero. Mostly because I like using Ramiel's arc as a level 50 "check" - do they have any problems soloing it - much like I use a Shivan run in the late teens to see how they're doing.
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You will, unless you totally stop playing that 50 |
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
I have one 50, he has unlocked Alpha and not slotted anything
I do not expect to have any slotted incarnates, ever |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Around 30 level 50s
1. Around half of them are +3 (the other half are working towards that goal) About half of the +3s have hybrid. (I've been slow on the hybrid unlocking)
2. All 50s get 'incarnated'. They all have at least alpha unlocked and slotted and are working towards +3.
3. Any character rolled is intended to be fully incarnated at some point (tier 3s being the priority).
4. I have one 50 and a 49 mastermind that I don't enjoy playing that might not see any incarnate action and be retired.
I typically don't try uber hard for tier 4s, but will if drops are in my favor and do have several characters with a few tier 4s. Once I get a toon to +3 I move onto the next 50. Because I have a good stable of characters I'll typically volunteer to switch if a certain type of AT/powerset is needed. When something new is introduced my main hero and main villain will be the priority for badge, powers, unlocks etc. Then I'll move onto whichever toon floats my fancy or helps fill a trials needs.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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I'll be honest here. I pretty much define "fully incarnated" as having a T3 in every slot since that's where diminishing returns hit hard. The value of T4s is, for the most part, not worth the effort. The only slots I routinely bother with T4 in are Alpha and Destiny. However for the sake of this thread I'll stick to your definition.|
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
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- One, my Time/Elec Defender (he kinda got it by accident since he had a lot of VR salvage sitting around and I really love playing him)
- Four currently (not counting the Time/Elec above) however I'm planning to retire two of them since I have to much powerset repetition amongst my Incarnates which has been boring me. I've got four other characters that I'm considering incarnating but I'm not sure how many or which of them I'll end up doing.
- None of them really. I roll characters that I want to play and the ones that I incarnate are ones that I want to continue to play after hitting level 50.
- Sure, I currently have 14 characters and 5 of them have basically zero chance of becoming incarnates (although they do all have their alpha slot unlocked and a couple even have an Alpha Slot ability). In each case I had little interest in playing the character anymore once they reached level 50 largely because I just didn't enjoy their play-style. In one specific case I did enjoy the character but just didn't like how he performed on trials (Demons/Thermal MM). I've toyed with the idea of incarnating him using mostly DA arcs (which would be more in character for him than the trials anyway) but it's low on my priorities list.
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| So how do you foresee the future content being delivered? Invasion stile where they spawn X levels higher than you? In all zones? Across all levels? How inclusive should the content be? |
1. Stopping the Incursions
2. Defending the Beachhead
3. Taking the Fight to Them
So what do I mean by these?
Stopping the Incursions
This is the mid level content. Starting at level 30 (since there isn't a whole lot of new content there) and continuing to level 50 you get access to missions that are about dealing with the attacks by the weaker vanguards of the main invasion. My ideal is for this to include level 50 TFs (similar to Apex/Tin Mage) that are accessible to non-Incarnates but that also provide Incarnate progression up to Lore/Destiny (to provide more incentive for Incarnates and Freeps to play together at high levels).
Defending the Beachhead
This is the DA-equivalent, it's unambiguously Incarnate content but like DA the focus is on solo and small team play. As the name suggests the idea here is that the main force of the Battalion is attacking FBZ and it's up to you to help hold them off and smash up their forward bases. Difficulty-wise I would expect this to be harder than DA with most enemies being level 50(+2) 0r 50(+3) so that it's primarily intended for character who already have 2-3 level shifts (although no doubt some could solo it earlier).
Taking the Fight to Them
This is the equivalent of the Praetorian War where large groups of Incarnates are working together to defeat the Battalion's main force and end the war for good. Enemies would be mostly 54(+2) to provide a solid challenge even for +3 Incarnates.
EDIT: Just one thing to add here. Part of what I'd really like to see is the idea that all three areas are equally important in terms of actually winning. The less experienced heroes are holding the line and protecting the people of Paragon while the more experienced heroes are busy trying to stop the main invasion, if it wasn't for them the Incarnates would return victorious to find a blasted wasteland where Paragon City used to be. Similarly the solo heroes in FBZ aren't second stringers they are the special ops teams and skirmishers fighting around the edges to distract the enemies and draw off reinforcements so that the main force has a chance to actually win. One thing that kind of bugged me in the initial Incarnate content is the feeling that the big, flashy raids are all that actually matters in the Praetorian war.
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I have
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
You will, unless you totally stop playing that 50
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Really? Last I checked there was still more non-Incarnate content for 50s than iStuff. Even ignoring Premium/Free accounts who cannot access them at all, that content is not mandatory now, and I'd hope it does not become so in the future. That would be bad decision making of a scale that makes blueside "Who Will Die" Batman-level brilliance in comparison
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
You will, unless you totally stop playing that 50
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Well, to answer your informal survey..
[*]How many characters have you fully incarnated?
Two actually. A WP/Mace Tank and a TW/WP Scrapper.
[*]How many characters have you incarnated?
Seven. A blaster, a brute, a controller, another tanker and three another scrappers.
[*]How many characters have you rolled with the intention of making them Full Incarnates?
None. The incarnate system is the end game, but I never make a character specifically for it. If it happens, it happens...
[*]Do you have any characters that you, for whatever reason, are not going to make Incarnates?
No. Like the question above about the intention of making them incarnates when you rolled them up. If they get that far and accomplish it, then great.
In my opinion, not every character in the world that is a hero, villain, or all points in between, should be Superman-level demi-gods that can battle cosmic-powered threats. Not saying they should be barred from helping fight back the tide of enemies that are likely to come, but don't expect to be able to solo them either...
"The part of me that is leaving... is going to miss the part of me that is staying..."
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Just to put my two cents (CDN) in...|
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
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1. None
2. All three (3) of my level 50 have their Alpha slotted, only one (1) have Judgement and Destiny unlocked.
3. None, I don't roll characters with the endgame in mind, I roll characters to have fun with them going to 50.
4. Out of my thirty-five (35) characters, ten (10) are throw-away characters that I keep in case of special events on servers I do not regular play on, and another twenty-one (21) are below level 40. Since it took me six (6) years to get 3 characters to level 50, I don't think I'll level any of them to 50 in the foreseeable future...
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Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
What all of this boils down to is how much content is going to be made that only VIP's can use and then how many of those VIP's are going to play it?
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Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
"I don't want to farm the same story ark over and over." I can understand this.
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Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
But I ask you, when do we stop adding solo incarnate content? When we have enough to make it a stand alone game?
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Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
Not to even mention all the sub level 50 heroes. So we have to limit our cast somehow. My query to you is... How?
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Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
* COH 2
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Keep NCSoft from shutting down City of Heroes : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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1: none.|
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
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2: one.
3: none.
4: Yeah, pretty much all of them. And that's a lotta alts.
It's a system with limited interest to me as its most efficient reward delivery comes from trials and TFs, a style of gameplay I don't really enjoy. If it appealed to me I'd probably still be playing that Big Fantasy MMO.
I did the Incarnate thing on my fire/ice blaster just to check out the content, and I'm having a lot of fun running him through DA, but that's as far as it's going to go. Whatever incarnate rewards he can rack up in there is what he'll get- and that's thematically approrpiate, as he was my primary DA farmer back in the olden days & star of my DA farming thread.
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| What all of this boils down to is how much content is going to be made that only VIP's can use and then how many of those VIP's are going to play it? There are many on these forums that screamed bloody murder when they couldn't solo their way to full incarnates. And now some of those same people are still saying "More solo content! I don't want to farm the same story ark over and over." I can understand this. But I ask you, when do we stop adding solo incarnate content? When we have enough to make it a stand alone game? |
I have a bit of a unique perspective as a longtime player who took a year off then came back. Yeah, there's a bunch of new incarnate stuff. But there's also a bunch of new everything else as well, at a variety of levels.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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1. none, i always find t4 to not be worth the effort, if the surplus of stuff adds up to me being able to t4, thats nice, but to fully get one is kind of long work for modest returns relative to t3|
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
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2. curently 4/6 with the 5th having the slots open and just waiting for the components
3. none but it just kinda happens
4. none but lower play time characters are less likely due to practical time restraints.
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1: None|
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
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2: Two
3: None
4: Virtually all (time constraints, general disinterest in high-level game and easily distracted by alts.)
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Granted. English language 9,001 Me 0.|
Originally Posted by Archiviste
What is this "we" you're talking about, Kemo Sabe ? Unless you're a Redname in disguise, "we" don't add any content to this game, the Devs do. |
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Originally Posted by Archiviste
Simple: just like some content (ex. Grandville, Founders Falls, etc.) cannot be played until you're high enough in levels, the Battalion stuff will be gated behind requirements of "X Level Shifts" - Level Shifting is simply raising the Level Cap without having to raise the Level Cap, ifyaknowwhatImean...
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Originally Posted by Archiviste
"Reboot" which is totally hypothetical at this point, and which (looking into my trusty Magic 8-Ball) more likely won't happen.
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Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze
"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
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I'm leaning towards "new MMO that has some play style similarities to CoH but is NOT a superhero game".
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Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
I don't think either one of us can say one way or the other for sure if COH 2 is going to happen. But in my opinion it is more likely to happen now that is to not happen.
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If you have your Alpha slot open, even if you avoid other Incarnate content, it's still quite hard to avoid content that gives you Shards.
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Originally Posted by BViking
Really? Last I checked there was still more non-Incarnate content for 50s than iStuff. Even ignoring Premium/Free accounts who cannot access them at all, that content is not mandatory now, and I'd hope it does not become so in the future. That would be bad decision making of a scale that makes blueside "Who Will Die" Batman-level brilliance in comparison
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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1. None. I have little to no interest in fully incarnating a character. Too much grinding.|
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
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2. None. I have two slightly-incarnated characters: Aggelakis has Alpha T2 and Judgment T1. Maggie has Alpha T2, Judgment T3, and Interface unlocked with nothing in it.
3. None. I don't create characters for incarnate content. I create characters because the character concepts/costumes/power sets interest me.
4. No. Everything will get some amount of incarnating just because that's part of the thing to do at 50. But having been here since 2005 and only having four level 50 characters, you can see how much I care about the end game.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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And this makes you craft and slot Incarnate powers? Interesting.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
If you have your Alpha slot open, even if you avoid other Incarnate content, it's still quite hard to avoid content that gives you Shards.
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Yep. If you haven't seen the NCNinjas... well, if you haven't seen them, they're doign their job properly. You get alpha unlocked and *bam* they're there yelling at you to get shards and craft something.
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Originally Posted by BViking
And this makes you craft and slot Incarnate powers? Interesting.
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Any reasonable person might say "Hey they keep handing me this stuff. I guess I could use it".
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Originally Posted by BViking
And this makes you craft and slot Incarnate powers? Interesting.
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... assuming they were actually interested in it in the first place.|
Originally Posted by Agent White
Any reasonable person might say "Hey they keep handing me this stuff. I guess I could use it".
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I don't rush off to craft everything I have in Invention salvage, either, and that's more useful to me overall, IMHO. Same with the various forms of merits. I have some with hundreds (in the case of incarnate tickets, thousands) that have just been sitting there.
Being there is not a driver to use them. Being actually interested in the system attached to them is.
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Is that the fault of the system or the person willfully ignoring it then? There are only so many incentives the Devs can drop in our lap before it's a simple "I win" button. I'm fine with letting the outliers that have no interest sit and do nothing with their 50s.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
... assuming they were actually interested in it in the first place.
I don't rush off to craft everything I have in Invention salvage, either, and that's more useful to me overall, IMHO. Same with the various forms of merits. I have some with hundreds (in the case of incarnate tickets, thousands) that have just been sitting there. Being there is not a driver to use them. Being actually interested in the system attached to them is. |
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You assume he has the alpha slot open.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
If you have your Alpha slot open, even if you avoid other Incarnate content, it's still quite hard to avoid content that gives you Shards.
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That's not automatically open, you need to do something to open it, and if never do, you never need to deal with incarnate content.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
As a player base how many incarnates do we think the developers should expect us to have per account? I ask this because of some of the talk in the L54 Battalion thread. It seems that there are some people that feel that they have not had time to get their characters up to level 53 yet. And it would seem that there are even those that feel they should have time to get all of their level 50s to level 53, and they have servers full of 50s. And then there are those without many or any level 50s to begin with.
So how do you foresee the future content being delivered? Invasion stile where they spawn X levels higher than you? In all zones? Across all levels? How inclusive should the content be?
Let us start with an informal survey.
Some definitions
What all of this boils down to is how much content is going to be made that only VIP's can use and then how many of those VIP's are going to play it? There are many on these forums that screamed bloody murder when they couldn't solo their way to full incarnates. And now some of those same people are still saying "More solo content! I don't want to farm the same story ark over and over." I can understand this. But I ask you, when do we stop adding solo incarnate content? When we have enough to make it a stand alone game?
In comic book terms this is the big world shaking event. (That is right before the reboot*) This is when Superman, Batman, Ironman, Hulk, Lex Luthor all put on their game faces, and somebody makes the ultimate sacrifice to save the planet. Well our Incarnates are now playing those same rolls. And, to use a comic book term, there's only so much page space. Even if that page is a fold out poster we still can't fit all the Incarnates onto it. Not to even mention all the sub level 50 heroes. So we have to limit our cast somehow. My query to you is... How?
* COH 2