Opinion Poll: Bases and Redesigns.

Allright, since i asked the question regarding bases at today's coffee table talk i suppose i should elaborate on my question, now that the time constraints of a livestream don't apply.

My question to Zwillinger was this "Would a ground up re-design of bases be possible sometime in the future?" To which i was given the response that many base builders have recieved, which is that base code is spaghetti, full of uncommented sections, impossible to work with, and "Like playing jenga on fire."

I understand all of this, i understand that it is essentially a legacy system and will never get any more love EVER, but my idea was a ground up redesign, by which i meant, create an entirely NEW base system, essentially identical to the old, but with properly commented code, things that actually work together and wont cause vast swaths of meticulous base art to vanish into the ether when something small gets changed.

To completely redesign the bases would be a massive undertaking, not gonna lie, and I admittedly don't have the foggiest about the types of coding involved apart from standard coding knowledge, so i was trying to get a dev to comment on what would be essentially, the resource requirements to make a redesign happen.

Also it should be noted that Synapse did say that he really wanted to do things with bases.

So Poll time then: Do you enjoy Supergroup Bases and would you like to see a redesign that would include raid functionality and a recoded building system? Y/N

Don't you touch my base! Resorting raid functionality means at the very least removing the ability to block rooms with objects and stack things artistically. At that point, they'd likely rather redo the code and render current bases unusable. That's likely too much work to be worth the return. Also, ragequits galore.

All I want for bases is universal access (heroes in villain bases) and maybe a few more items.

RE: Dechs
okay, but even considering not restoring raid functionality, they said that bases will get NO love, which means, no new items, the loss of any raid effects from defensive items (the animations were useful in decor), no universal access, nothing.
Wouldn't it be acceptable to at least inquire as to what a recode of the current system (leaving out raid pathing and such) would take?

Here's my idealistic-to-the-point-of-naive take on the base system:

Implement an entirely new base system from the ground up, but give SG leaders the option to "Leave my base as-is"/"Update to new system" (or even wipe it out and start from the beginning).

Leave the legacy system in place, but flatout state that NO MORE WORK is going to be done on it... EVER. If you love your base to pieces and don't want to use the new system, fine - but don't grouse that it's not getting any more support.

At any time, you can switch to using the NEW system, but you cannot revert to the old one - once you upgrade, it's gone, too bad.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

I'm not big on raids.

But here's what I'd suggest considering:

Lock the current legacy code and make all current bases "legacy bases". Barring a real game destroying bug, no more base changes, no fixes, no changes.

Create a new base system from scratch. Prices way down. Decorative rooms are essentially free and elements are free.

Add in personal areas for members (an elevator that you click on and go to the level for that member). In personal areas, a little storage, decorate at will, display the souvenirs you picked up in your career, mannequins with your various costumes.

Kill "control", there's only power to charge functional rooms.

Other times from the wish lists we've had for years.

Once the system is in place, the red star leader of the SG can go to registrar and convert the base. Whole lotta prestige back, get a base with an entrance and a "legacy vault" holding all items stored in the old base.

Hmm, great minds think alike. (edit)

I don't care about bases. I don't even use my SG base for the teleporters.

but at least bases don't ruin the game like incarnate powers

Bases by themselves just aren't worth doing over (and I say this as an avid base-builder). Base "creation/modification" is an activity limited to too few people (just the base builder) for too limited a purpose and uses far too many resources (its been acknowledged that the current way the base tracks & communicates assets makes these maps painfully resource-intensive.

To make a base do-over viable, it needs to cover a wider base of players and have a broader purpose.

- Make it a "custom map creator" for architect entertainment
- Make it a "danger room creator" for PvP arena play.
- Make it a "personal hideout creator" for each and every individual player to participate in, somehow.
- Make it a "trophy room" with most souvineers in the game having assets that can be put on display.
- Make it a "social spaces" type of system, where (for example) a host could load the "Atlas park fashion show" map, tweak it with a few additional placeables, and open it to public (with the option to "kick" griefers that show up) for use as a costume contest, RP event, or similar activity.

Do something like that and *maybe* you've broadened the appeal and usefulness for such a project. Otherwise, you're just wasting resources that could have been invested in things with much more impact.

It really depends on how you ask the question:

People who like bases and are into doing stuff with bases are clearly going to be the people who respond to this question -- folks who don't care won't really care (duh)! And most people who are heavily into bases know that there are longstanding base issues that range from the irritating to the hair-pullingly frustrating.

So if you ask "Would you like to see bases completely redesigned from the ground up?" most would enthusiastically agree.

If you ask, "Would you like to see bases completely redesigned from the ground up, with no guarantees that your favorite feature will be implemented and that your existing base will continue to function after the redesign?" most would probably change to a hedging 'no' to an enthusiastic 'PANCAKE no!'

And given that about the only way a base redesign would be affordable from a development standpoint would be to make it VIP content (i.e.: only VIPs would be able to purchase, edit, and modify bases), I think most folks would prefer to stay with the system we have.

Just my $0.02US, though.

--
Pauper

No. Leave it to the new project they are working on instead.

I'm with the devs on this one: it isn't worth the resources.

I must throw my hat in with the "new system".

My honest base condition for allowing for a new base editting system would be: As long as I can do as much as I did with the previous editor and more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

I'd be willing to sacrifice my current base if it meant they would bring back base updates. I can always rebuild, but at the moment all we have is all we're ever going to get. I don't like that.

I think they'd be more likely to look at some kind of new system of personal player housing rather than touch the base system.

Id rather have more decorative choices than an all new base building system. The game is too old to reinvent the wheel unless they're creating CoH 2 (in which case, put it there - not here).

I'd be all for a redesigned base system for a number of reasons, but the primary one is this: bases as coded and designed are a literal can of worms.

As the Devs have said a few times now, the coding for bases isn't documented. The person who did the coding no longer works for the studio, and therefore any change (and that means any in the most literal sense of the word, including new objects, pieces, functionality, placement, and so on) is risking breaking the system totally. The bug where base guns were opening fire on the people who owned the base is a very good example.

It cannot be fixed, it will not be fixed. That is the ultimate bottom line. It wouldn't matter if they had unlimited resources, the problem is they simply don't have the tools to do the job. Bases as we know them would have to be scrapped on the coding level in their entirety to make them work again.

The best alternative is to do just that; offer an alternative base or personal housing system that is well documented and featured. Positron has gone on record saying he would like this, but he acknowledges that bases are also a huge resource hog, more than just about anything else in the game in terms of stored information. So you have a double edged sword in how to deal with them. Adding a second base system would bloat a system already bloated by bases that much more, and it seems unlikely on that basis that they'd want to do that.

So yes, I'm favor of an alternate system if they can do it in a feasible and reasonable way.


S.

So, i'm not a coder....and i admit i have no idea here, but something strikes me strangely.


The old bases are resource intensive-- however, we can have 60 billion missions in the mission AE system with custom maps, custom mobs, custom dialogue.

I don't see the difference between saving all that information for the AE and then having bases being resource intensive. People have asked for maids/butlers or SG members that are logged off roaming the halls or doing tasks in the SG base like they are "hanging out there" in their time off. (I do realize that tracking logged off characters might be an issue though....it is a tad different...but perhaps we have work arounds?)

I don't see why that's difficult compared to the AE missions of having characters in it, saying and doing things.

Perhaps there needs to be a tweaking on the code to make it less intensive? A more efficient way for it to work?



What I'd love is if we get access to inspirations (without the badges!) and a hospital that fully heals you (without the badges!) and personal space.

Personal space, like someone mentioned, going up an elevator and then allowing members to decorate their own spaces.

Perhaps give permission for people to decorate their own areas or other parts of the base. This is a BIG reason why I left my previous 2 SGs.....and started my own SG base. I wasn't able to change anything ever.

I started it just after (unfortunately) the SG prestige give-away back when. All my alts are in my SG....and I've literally gotten to the point that I have SO much prestige that I don't know what to do with it now.

My base doesn't have everything (mostly limited by stupid badges) but it has a lot for only me being the contributer to the prestige. I'm....2 or 3 base sizes away from the biggest base. However, after getting all the TPers....and putting an Ouroboros crystal in....and some storage stuff......I don't know what else I can do with it.



As someone mentioned above: A pvp arena area, a "danger room," and other functionality can be added.


I DEFINITELY vote for working up SG bases from scratch. Bases should make our lives way more convenient-- the current ones only do so marginally.


EDIT: and I DEFINITELY vote for the legacy base idea where you can have your old base and upgrade to the new base when you are ready.

Ah, that makes sense: thanks Chase_Arcanum

Maybe they can just give us "canned" items.....like, for a recreational room: one object that has a pool table, sofa, TV, loveseats.....or such items that people would like in a recreation room.

Sure, not everyone would want "canned" items....but if they are made nice enough, I'd see me using them I'm not a big stickler on having to spend billions of hours to make my base look "different." Cool is one thing, different is meh


At any rate, I hope they can figure ways around things. We always hear stuff is impossible to do....and, like Water Blast, we now have it!