Who is dead?

Whether or not someone agrees with Prometheus is totally up to them.
The guy has his own agenda, I think... And whatever his endgame is, I seriously doubt that it includes all of us keeping god-like powers from a source that he obviously shows the utmost contempt for. Not to mention his comments when you start talking about Ascension...

*stares at his Omega slot and taps the handle of his Minotaur Axe*

.... yeah, if he thinks these powers are on a rental plan, he's gonna be mistaken.

I have a very strong feeling that Prometheus is going to turn on us in the future.

If only Responsibility was given a Sheridan moment to kick both Tyrant and the invading primal hordes out of Praetoria. At least kicking the primals that are helping themselves to remnants of their city out would be an okay consolation prize.

He would get his mitochondria tentacled to him?

(That sounds so bad...)

Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

That's what Tyrant's personal story mission is for
It gives the stiff-armers one final glimpse of their glorious Leader before the Heroes tear down his reich.

It also gives us a glimpse of just how conscious he was of his own failures, and how he recognizes the enormity of his mistakes. It even tells us just how much he despises Mother Mayhem. If you read carefully, whether you believe he is evil or not, in the end Cole is still trying to save his own world.

He offers the last three who follow him the opportunity to rest. He reflects on how the option of fighting at full power would have destroyed the home he loved, how he could fight without restraint now that his world had been ruined.

My favorite part of that personal story was how he admits to himself that fighting Primal Earth was his biggest mistake, and that his choice to do so had destroyed Praetoria.

No. The developers don't want us to have that kind of information.

That's only somewhat hyperbolic.

There is no official canon repository at all. The closest you can get is the backgrounders on the official website, under "Game Info".

The best unofficial repository is paragon wiki. The devs have stated that they use it themselves to "remind themselves" what they have revealed of the games background.

The problem with Paragon Wiki is that most of the lore in it is unsourced and basically apocryphal. It's true that most of is taken verbatim from the game, which could be sourced if someone put their mind to it, but a significant amount is also just personal opinion and conjecture from the forums or is based on actual redname statements that are now unverifiable and so apocryphal.

There are various posts by rednames throughout the forums, many of them now deleted for age or for board upgrades. The most useful of these is the Canon Fodder thread.

The long and short of it is that the devs don't want you to know the full background of the game because that would constrain them when it comes to rewriting portions of the background to fit their latest ideas. Given that they totally remade Praetoria and that Matt Miller is on record saying that he'd be a poor boss if he forced his newest employees to allow current continuity to constrain them from realizing their own ideas, I really can't see how publishing the full background of the game would be any different a situation than we already have, development-wise.

That might just be my frustration talking. I've been griping about the way the devs hoard the lore for years now and it's a tune that has no doubt grown tiresome.

In any event - the short answer is "No, there is no such lore repository or guide to the future of the game." Paragon Wiki is the closest non-official equivalent.

Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

No reasonable person could possibly find Tyrant and his stooges not guilty of war crimes. Lesser officials like Kang might get off the hook but they'd never get so much as the time of day from me.

As for the "Primal fired first" theory as far as I'm concerned it's null and void until it actually makes its way into the game. The material in the game maintains that Praetoria had bases on Primal before Primal even knew Praetoria existed. If the devs are smart they'll leave it that way. Making Primal the instigator just turns the whole thing into a rehash of the Rikti War.

Repeating a mistake doesn't mean it's not a mistake any more. The ridiculous Heel Face Revolving Door set up by Going Rogue is bad enough; we don't need to compound it by giving obvious psychotics free passes. Especially when said characters are uninteresting Evil Twins in the first place.

If this was the slightest bit true he would have laid down arms. It was just another "last moment in the bunker" bit.

The bunker setting was certainly a nice historical touch

Can you name me a moment in history where that ACTUALLY HAPPENED?

Well, so is Chimera, in the Belladonna Vetrano Incarnate arc. He tells you as much repeatedly, in among the threats to murder you if you don't stop fighting against him.

I will give the devs credit for one thing, though -- the Praetorians are much more interesting than most of the villains associated with Arachnos, if only because the Praetorians, for the most part, believe that they're heroes. Self-aware Richard III-style villains make a nice rhetorical spice, but they're a thin gruel as a regular story dish.

--
Pauper

That whole arc is another nice touch - the hopeless search for a superweapon to reverse the tide of the war as the allied forces close in

In your opinion. I actually find nearly all the villains of this game to be incredibly interesting, and wish they would get the spotlight more. The Praetors are well developed, don't get me wrong, but I sometimes feel like that time spent developing them could have been better used to develop the Freedom Phalanx more. Make them respectable heroes and show them as more than just icons that don't do anything. At least then when States died we'd have more emotional attachment to him than "The guy who gave out that one taskforce."

Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

The Devs themselves have stated (as recently as the Pummit) that Primal fired first, so presumably something is going to come of it at some point.

AFAIK, the most recent word in-game on the matter is Maelstrom finding out that his Maelstrom device came from Praetoria, and that mean that the Primals knew about Praetoria first. Don't know of anything else that trumps that.

Saying it != doing it

Doesn't follow. The Maelstrom device may have been stolen after the original (now vaulted) Praetorian arcs.

Neither of those retorts hold water. Devs have final say; it's THEIR GAME. Old arcs are vaulted an no longer pertain to the story. Redname confirmation is literally the end-all be-all.

Venture also believes that it should only be possibly to solo the game on minimal difficulty settings and claims there is not one good person from Praetoria (nevermind all heroic PCs who come from there)

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

By "vaulted" I mean "moved to Ouroboros", which does pertain to the story. We were explicitly told those arcs are still in continuity, and they are referenced by their replacements.

No. I said none of the Contacts or other "name" NPCs qualify as heroic.

Absolutely, they're not supposed to be. But there's a difference between "heroic" and "irredeemably evil and can only be treated as mad dogs and put down".

And that's what most of the discussion has been, the redeemability. Is the only possible next bit in their story a trip to the zig (where they'll eventually escape, twirling their mustaches) or being on the wrong end of a blaster with their medtransport disabled?

Yes, there are some who are irredeemable. If MOM isn't considered to have been fatal to Mother Mayhem, something fatal needs to be arranged, she's just too crazy and too powerful to live. (I wouldn't leave her for Hamidon - that just oozes with "that could go wrong".) Marauder is a candidate for the zig, his personna demands a mustache to twirl. Neuron is another candidate for a mustache.

But for the rest, there could be some fun. Here's what I'd do if I was asked to write it:

Dominatrix - she and Flamebaux should team up, they're both vain characters who are the heroes of their own story in their own mind. They'd probably wind up trying to kill each other. Let me fix some popcorn for that.

Siege and Nightstar - I can see a philosophical question about them. Are they just machines, dismantle them and take them to the junkyard? Can they be reprogrammed, and is it moral to do so? Citadel and Luminary would be involved in the discussion, having fought for their rights in those cases and other mechanical sentients. In the end - I'd have Malta capture Siege and reprogram him to serve their idea of a properly controlled America. And Nightstar becomes a lieutenant of Lord Recluse as he promises to eventually find and fix Siege.

AntiMatter - I'd give him a short tragic path to redemption. He has neither the history nor the internal strength to be a hero, though he may want to be.

Tyrant - I'd start with a "permanent" trip to the Zig. And then start the path to redemption.

It's worth remembering that Marcus Cole started in Praetoria as a hero, like our Marcus Cole. The break came when he decided that the way to solve problems was take over - and he wasn't very good at it. Given time to think about "man I screwed up" and how Primal Marcus Cole got it right, he could be inspired.

Now add to it that this is a universe without a Marcus Cole, who for decades has been The Man Who Steps Up.

Something happens that would otherwise require Statesman, but he's dead. Maybe it's part of Battalion, maybe it's Praetorian Hami coming to Primal Earth, maybe it's something else, MacGuffin to be decided later. But its bad, really bad. In the Zig, prisoner Marcus Cole decides it's Time To Step Up. He breaks out, crafts a Statesman costume, and heads for the threat. In the process of an arc, he turns the tide - and pulls an Omega Squad. He goes through, taking the battle to the foe, giving everyone else a chance to block them off. Final status unknown, presumed dead.

BTW, the various redemption arcs would take place against the backdrop of reactions of the refugees and those from Primal Earth who were involved in the war. Many Praetorians are afraid of the idea of some Praetorians being allowed to run free, some want to take up their banner again and win. Malta wants to kill them all - anyone not born on Primal Earth needs eliminating, it's the only way to be safe. There are a couple of heroes agitating against any mercy shown these people, maybe model them after certain player heroes

I think you could write some very interesting stories around this. Tricker to write some interesting arcs about them. But the potential is just too good to either toss them in the dustbin or yet another group of super villains going through the revolving door at the zig.

Actually, he was extremely good at it - that's what made him the most dangeous AV we've met so far.