Murders that result in a good side effect does not make those murders "mean something". The only way a murder can mean something is if people respond in a way to make sure it never happens again.
That said... the knowledge is value neutral, lives can be saved. And the fact is, if it's seen by someone who recognizes its value, it won't be destroyed. It may be passed quietly to some researchers to verify and then present it as their own. It's worth remembering that if we trace many areas of scientific discovery back in time, we'll find experiments that would shock our conscious if done today and we don't close our eyes and pretend we don't know what was discovered there.
Even now, some accepted scientific practices are controversial in some eyes, such as animal research, but those who wish to stop it haven't suggested we burn the research accomplished through it.
The argument Venture makes for destroying the data, of encouraging a future insane butcher to commit crimes for the credit of a scientific break through, doesn't hold up for me.
First, it assumes that there are a bunch of scientific discoveries and cures just waiting to be found by someone willing to commit mass murder for it, and that those willing to commit that mass murder have the skills to find them. To call that an "edge case" would be an understatement. Most gaps in our scientific knowledge are not just needing some vivisectionists to go out and get the data.
Second, it only makes sense if you believe such mass murdering scientists are motivated by "Yes, I'll be arrested and found out and imprisoned or executed but my work will survive!" Barring a few moments of insane rage or revenge killings (the father shooting the murderer of his child in the courtroom), criminals generally don't expect to get caught. Whether they have really been clever and come up with a plot that is likely to escape detection or done something where the average 10 year old could say "He did it", they think they'll get away with it. (It's also the argument against the death penalty as deterrent - thought it's remarkably effective and reducing the recidivism rate.) More, the kind of people with the knowledge to actually discover something of worth in their slaughter are those who would be more deterred by the idea of prison should they be discovered. Those who would be sufficiently civic minded to say "I don't care what happens to me so long as this disease gets cured" are the type who are least likely to say "so let's go kill a few hundred people".
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Thanks, fixed. Both are intangible characters, anyway.
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
You mean Diabolique, not Desdemona.
Also, re: Venture's insane idea to destroy ill-gotten research: So, it is better for people to die in vain at the hands of a madman than to have their unfortunate deaths actually mean something? |
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Desdemona is quite alive.|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
Thanks, fixed. Both are intangible characters, anyway.
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You're thinking of Either Ghost Widow (Primal Belladonna V) or Numina.
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It's akin to why we shouldn't deal with terrorists or kidnappers. Do it once, you establish a dangerous precedent that will inevitably come back to haunt you in the future. I'm with Venture on this, data obtained through illegal experimentation at the cost of innocent lives should be outright destroyed. Granted, principle only goes so far - if the benefits of an unethical discovery vastly outweight the consequences of said research (say, cure for cancer), we could all just turn a blind eye and use it, even while knowing that it'll encourage others to do the same.|
Originally Posted by GadgetDon
The argument Venture makes for destroying the data, of encouraging a future insane butcher to commit crimes for the credit of a scientific break through, doesn't hold up for me.
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| First, it assumes that there are a bunch of scientific discoveries and cures just waiting to be found by someone willing to commit mass murder for it, and that those willing to commit that mass murder have the skills to find them. To call that an "edge case" would be an understatement. Most gaps in our scientific knowledge are not just needing some vivisectionists to go out and get the data. |
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| Second, it only makes sense if you believe such mass murdering scientists are motivated by "Yes, I'll be arrested and found out and imprisoned or executed but my work will survive!" Those who would be sufficiently civic minded to say "I don't care what happens to me so long as this disease gets cured" are the type who are least likely to say "so let's go kill a few hundred people". |
Let's say a scientist just stumbled upon a working cure for cancer. He *knows* it works, because he used it on himself and miraculously recovered, but he also knows that, best case scenario, it'll be decades before the cure can be made available to the general population - countless people will die in the meantime. Said scientist might literally not care what happens to him as long as he can prove to the medical community that they should be administering this cure.
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It waaaaaas a joke. Because her writing lacks about as much substance as Diaboloique's form.
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Desdemona is quite alive.
You're thinking of Either Ghost Widow (Primal Belladonna V) or Numina. |
All this talk of morals and ethics versus progress makes me think of one man...
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It also makes me think how awesome it would be to have a Rapture-esque zone in City of. I could totally see it happening in City of's history.
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Originally Posted by Andrew Ryan
I am Andrew Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question.
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? 'No!' says the man in Washington, 'It belongs to the poor.' 'No!' says the man in the Vatican, 'It belongs to God.' 'No!' says the man in Moscow, 'It belongs to everyone.' I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Rapture! A city where the artist would not fear the censor, where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality, Where the great would not be constrained by the small! And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city as well. |
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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And you just know Nemesis would be the one who built it.|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
It also makes me think how awesome it would be to have a Rapture-esque zone in City of. I could totally see it happening in City of's history.
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..... wait.
*looks at Warhulk*
*looks at Big Daddy*
.... MY GOD.
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No, Nemesis would be behind something like Columbia from Bioshock Infinite.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
And you just know Nemesis would be the one who built it.
..... wait. *looks at Warhulk* *looks at Big Daddy* .... MY GOD. |
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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You mean Diabolique, not Desdemona.
Also, re: Venture's insane idea to destroy ill-gotten research: So, it is better for people to die in vain at the hands of a madman than to have their unfortunate deaths actually mean something?