City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Who is dead?

Adeon Hawkwood

By Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-06-30 15:51 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombieluvr View Post
Quite possibly, yes, but who or what is Ultimatum? Who backs them? What is their goal? And it seems clear that Ultimatum knew about Praetoria before ever sending Maelstrom in. Where did they get that info? Why would they want to attack Praetoria?
Rule #1: If you have to ask, its a Nemesis plot. Its always a Nemesis plot.

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Posted

Well, we are talking about a genre where murderers and terrorists like Magneto can eventually become one of the good guys, Namor has jumped back and forth over the line ever since he was created, and even Penguin and Riddler have gone straight.

And we're talking about a game where Frostfire and Miss Thystle were both outright villains in early story arcs and full-on heroes in later ones. Nothing, not even morality, is fixed. (Especially in this post-Going Rogue age)

To wit:

Marauder strikes me as a guy who doesn't really care about "good" or "evil", he just enjoys the challenge of the fight. Heck, even in Lambda, he's fighting to protect something, because it's his job. Give him something else to protect and fight for. Point him at Arachnos or Nemesis and he'd probably be happy to take them down.

And Keyes, as said, would benefit greatly from a dose of genuine appreciation for his talents and inventions. They should of course be kept on VERY short leashes at first, but there's no reason that the surviving Praetorians should be exempt from the chance to turn themselves around.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
I wouldn't go that far. The loyalists have a number of competent players, like Mr. G and Provost Marchand, but the problem is that they are either trying to work within a broken system and 'look the other way', or they're simply in it for themselves.
I'm still convinced the G-Man has gathered enough power to swap games, and the devs didn't put him in Praetoria at all.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fista View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Praetoria being abandon to the DE? Haven't we evacuated every one or as many as we can to Primal Earth? So where are all those people going to go?
That seems to be Prometheus' plan anyhow. Rush in, dethrone Tyrant as champion of the Well and then get out of dodge before the DE have a chance to storm the place.

As to whether that's what happens or not, we won't know til I24.

But that was part of the reason for the TUNNEL system being put in place, the Resistance and the Carnival of Light were evacuating people from Imperial (with Nova Praetoria being deserted when the Seer Network went offline).

Honestly I would -love- a future zone revamp to involve a Praetorian refugee settlement, like a neighborhood in Independence Port or Peregrine Island or something, fill it with some Praetorian mobs.

 

Posted

Eden could also get a revamp if the Praetorian Hamidon tried following us home, and set up some kind of link with the Primal Hamidon that allowed it to tear through into our dimension.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Hive and Abyss Revamp:

Hamidon War Zone!

Two Hamidons dishing it out against one another for control! Two factions of Devouring Earth clashing! And only our heroes (and, probably, villains) stand between them and total destruction!!

To be accompanied by new Zone Events- Seed Infestation! The Seed of Hamidon storms the affected (or is that infected) zone, throwing out spores that need to be destroyed.

(Zone Event triggered by successful completion of the Eden Trial heroside, or an as yet to be created villainside trial- probably involving Vernon von Grun. )

 

Posted

Praetorian Hamidon breaks through to Primal Earth...

Primal Hamidon: "Woah-woah-WOAH! Who let YOU through the door!?"

Praetorian Hamidon: "RARGH! Tentacles!"

Primal Hamidon: "Indeed... And you're making a real mess of everything... I... Thought I would like this but find that I don't. I'm afraid I will have to start killing you, now. I don't know when I'm going to stop."

Praetorian Hamidon: "BRAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGH!"

Primal Hamidon: "I've been holding this in since my revamp... Time to let loose the Yellow Death..."

Praetorian Hamidon: "RAA-huh? ...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGH!"

My Stories

Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.

 

Posted

Actually it was said one of the devs commented on this happening. Should this happen the two Hamidons would infact just merge their goo and mix their DNA and become a Very Bad Thingtm

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey View Post
Praetorian Hamidon breaks through to Primal Earth...

Primal Hamidon: "I've been holding this in since my revamp... Time to let loose the Yellow Death..."

Praetorian Hamidon: "RAA-huh? ...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGH!"
Nah. Primal Hami would get his butt handed to him by Praetorian Hami.

If he had a butt.

Or hands.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
Actually it was said one of the devs commented on this happening. Should this happen the two Hamidons would infact just merge their goo and mix their DNA and become a Very Bad Thingtm
Somehow the tone of this post made me think "there is no Hamidon, only Zuul ".

 

Posted

Oh look, it's another thread about Praetoria, and another visit from the tag team of Venture and Golden Girl!

"Everyone in Praetoria, and the Praetorian story itself, is irredeemably bad, because I say so, and I'm the arbiter of what makes a good story around here. Here are some trope links to convince or at least distract you."

"Yay! That means that my self-righteous Sue-vatar can do anything there (as long as I do it to the Bad People) and remain completely pure, good and heroic! Moral ambiguity is for losers! Now, where's a MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner I can pose under? "

My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
That's because its purpose is to lead into the dimensional war and the Incarnate system - GR launched with the Trial locations already built into the struture of the zones, so the destruction of the loyalist dictatorship was already in place before GR even went into beta - it was a doomed world right from the start.
While I won't argue with this statement,given that time has proven it to be basically true, that is not what GR was advertised to be.

It might as well never have been developed at all as far as I am concerned. The whole business is basically a big bait and switch.

 

Posted

Quote:
"Everyone in Praetoria, and the Praetorian story itself, is irredeemably bad, because I say so, and I'm the arbiter of what makes a good story around here.
It's a cushy job, but someone's got to do it.

Oh, and the story itself varies from bad to mediocre.

Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megajoule View Post
Oh look, it's another thread about Praetoria, and another visit from the tag team of Venture and Golden Girl!

"Everyone in Praetoria, and the Praetorian story itself, is irredeemably bad, because I say so, and I'm the arbiter of what makes a good story around here. Here are some trope links to convince or at least distract you."

"Yay! That means that my self-righteous Sue-vatar can do anything there (as long as I do it to the Bad People) and remain completely pure, good and heroic! Moral ambiguity is for losers! Now, where's a MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner I can pose under? "
Pretty much this.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
He murdered the Praetorian Russel Brandt/Clockwork King, who had been helping him develop the clockwork, and took all the credit for himself.
Did he murder Metronome simply to take more credit or was there something else to it? I mean, we interact with Metronome a lot, and he's never seemed sane at any point.

I'm prepared to believe that they were in the lab, an argument started, and the two of them ended up trying to kill each other.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy View Post
Did he murder Metronome simply to take more credit or was there something else to it? I mean, we interact with Metronome a lot, and he's never seemed sane at any point.

I'm prepared to believe that they were in the lab, an argument started, and the two of them ended up trying to kill each other.
Anti-matter: NO! WE ARE NOT ORDERING CHINESE FOOD AGAIN! WE HAD IT LAST NIGHT!
Russel: WELL YOU ALWAYS ORDER PIZZA WITH BELL PEPPERS! YOU KNOW I HATE BELL PEPPERS!
Anti-Matter: THEN JUST PICK THEM OFF THE PIZZA!
Russel: JUST ORDER HALF OF THE PIZZA WITHOUT BELL PEPPERS!
Anti-matter: WHY DON'T YOU JUST GO TO HELL!
Russel: YOU FIRST!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel View Post
Anti-matter: NO! WE ARE NOT ORDERING CHINESE FOOD AGAIN! WE HAD IT LAST NIGHT!
Russel: WELL YOU ALWAYS ORDER PIZZA WITH BELL PEPPERS! YOU KNOW I HATE BELL PEPPERS!
Anti-Matter: THEN JUST PICK THEM OFF THE PIZZA!
Russel: JUST ORDER HALF OF THE PIZZA WITHOUT BELL PEPPERS!
Anti-matter: WHY DON'T YOU JUST GO TO HELL!
Russel: YOU FIRST!
Hey, pizza is serious business.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Russel was Team Edward, Anti-matter was Team Jacob.
More like Team Pitstop and Team Domi.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Respite View Post
Hey, pizza is serious business.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Way too serious.

"You forgot my [complementary] dip [that I didn't ask for]! I demand a free pizza as replacement!" happens more than you think.

Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
Actually, he's both. Doing his arc in the 1-20 Praetoria, yeah, you do get the idea that he's more like a working stiff and at least not so outwardly, obviously evil like Neuron's complete apathy for anything regarding human rights, Mother Mayhem's outright insanity, or Marauder's Might Makes Right thug mentality.

But he is evil. And quite insane. His singular devotion to Dominatrix is pretty much -beyond- obsession.

I do kind of agree that the Anti-Matter that you face in the Keyes trial is probably him at his most broken and demented after losing pretty much everything else of value in his life.

But I don't think that should be regarded as he's a good guy that's just lost everything. He's still pretty evil in a "Any means to an end" way. He would not hesitate to kill in the name of Praetoria.
Keyes is a Spark. (Both Keyes are Sparks, our Keyes is just more grounded than the Praetorian Keyes.) In the Keyes trial, he's deep in the madness place.

Like it or not, Praetoria is a world where might made right. By the time a Praetorian gets to level 20 and jumps to Primal Earth, they've done some pretty rotten things, and yet the record is wiped clean, they're granted the same respect as a Primal born hero whose worse crime ever was running past a mugging in order to get to a mission to save the world.

And even with Primals - there is a path to redemption. In game terms it's 11 not-so-bad deeds followed by 11 good deeds. But even granting that's a simplification for the game - you can have wiped out longbow and policemen by the score, robbed the bank in almost every part of Paragon City and setting buildings on fire and robbing stores and releasing villains just for fun, turn innocent civilians over to Dr. Vahz, and worse - and still have all that wiped clean and get a clean slate.

Is Praetor Keyes that much worse than a player character that did all the red side arcs and strike forces? Particularly given the standards of the world he lived in, and the history (I have a theory he figured out Cole's bargain - and that if the Primals win, human society on Praetoria is doomed).

So it wouldn't be inconsistent with Anti-matter coming to Primal Earth and being forgiven. If I was writing it, it would be a short heroic career, story wise no real reason to have two heroic Positrons around. I'd give him a valiant death, "I couldn't save Praetoria, but I can save this world."

My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
Honestly I would -love- a future zone revamp to involve a Praetorian refugee settlement, like a neighborhood in Independence Port or Peregrine Island or something, fill it with some Praetorian mobs.
Someone suggested a rebuild of Baumton (Boomtown) as a refugee settlement zone which works for me (and I've used it as an example in some suggestions).

My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel View Post
Anti-matter: NO! WE ARE NOT ORDERING CHINESE FOOD AGAIN! WE HAD IT LAST NIGHT!
Russel: WELL YOU ALWAYS ORDER PIZZA WITH BELL PEPPERS! YOU KNOW I HATE BELL PEPPERS!
More like:

Anti-Matter: Dominatrix is the |-|077357!!!
Metronome: Eh, give me Penny any day.
Anti-Matter: Isn't she like, pre-pubescent?
Metronome: Look who's talking, Mr. Cradle-Robber!
Anti-Matter: Dominatrix would beat that little nutjob to a pulp!
Metronome: Penny would brain-scramble that sadist until she was sane!
A-M: My girlfriend's hotter!
M: No! Mine!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombieluvr View Post
Quite possibly, yes, but who or what is Ultimatum? Who backs them? What is their goal? And it seems clear that Ultimatum knew about Praetoria before ever sending Maelstrom in. Where did they get that info? Why would they want to attack Praetoria?
I believe they were looting random neighbouring dimensions for technology, like the original Maelstrom device. That's the first impression Praetoria had of Primal Earth - government-sanctioned thieves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombieluvr View Post
There's still a lot there that hasn't been told, particularly as we reach the aftermath of the Primal-Praetorian War. Someone should be held accountable.
Everyone should be held accountable for their own actions, nothing more, nothing less. That said, I doubt we'll ever see any mission to track down Ultimatum's leadership in Primal Earth, or arrest the Longbow grunts who used flamethrowers on civilian targets - this will either have to happen in AE or it's up to each player's imagination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy View Post
Did he murder Metronome simply to take more credit or was there something else to it? I mean, we interact with Metronome a lot, and he's never seemed sane at any point.

I'm prepared to believe that they were in the lab, an argument started, and the two of them ended up trying to kill each other.
We don't know what happened. The murder could have simply been Keyes upholding the law and warning Mother Mayhem that Rusty was psychic - which was awfully convenient given the patent issues regarding the Clockwork, but again, that's speculation. Most of what we know about Rusty comes from Praetorian Penelope Yin, and she's been recently retconned in Maria Jenkins arc as Mother Mayhem, so it's not like we can trust what she says

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
But at the very least, we can save those characters who are salvageable, can't we? Marauder is a blockhead and a bully, but he feels like he could be good-natured if he was given some better direction. Like a watchdog, he's fierce and dangerous, but can still be pointed at the right bad guys and he'd be an asset. Anti-Matter maybe a whiny *****, but he's an unmitigated genius, a hard worker and a responsible person, at least as far as his work goes. Manage his rotten personality and his science can be directed towards a greater end. The man pretty much thrives on positive reinforcement, so he might actually be a worthwhile asset.
I don't think so, the things Marauder and his biker gang did before Cole leashed him suggest otherwise.

Quote:
"The first order of business was to eliminate competition. So instead of attacking the Devouring Earth, we ransacked every hold out settlement we could find. The weak, we purged, the strong, we recruited. It was total slash and burn policy. We were making a firebreak between us and the Devouring Earth." - Souvenir: The History of the Destroyers
IMO, Marauder's much worse than Mother Mayhem. At least she was driven by the need to feed, White's the type of monster that makes Cole's rule seem like a preferable alternative.