Dev Chat Summation: BLASTER CHANGES
By
2short2care,
Posted on: 2012-06-20 24:28 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I did not say you were hoping that would happen. I'm saying it will happen whether you intend it to or not, and its inevitable.
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Originally Posted by Lightslinger
Also, the assertion that I'm hoping to be happy at the expense of other players is uncalled for.
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It was a common assumption (see where assumptions get us, huh?) that Snipes would be remade like the new AS. Had that happened and this +tohit check was not involved, who would be unhappy?|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I did not say you were hoping that would happen. I'm saying it will happen whether you intend it to or not, and its inevitable.
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Along with this suggestion I believe /Devices should be buffed.
So, if "New AS" Quick-Snipes were happening, and the devs announced they'd be addressing Devices like they did with Dual Pistols, who is unhappy there?
Basically, here's my dream i24 Blaster Changes
-80ft Range T3s - Awesome
-Snipes now function like AS
-Secondary survival changes
-Dual Pistols AND Devices will be getting a pass very soon.
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What buff would you give /Devices that|
Originally Posted by Lightslinger
It was a common assumption (see where assumptions get us, huh?) that Snipes would be remade like the new AS. Had that happened and this +tohit check was not involved, who would be unhappy?
Along with this suggestion I believe /Devices should be buffed. |
a) made sense for the set
b) buffed it enough to matter
c) would be something no one else would think other sets didn't equally deserve
and
d) no one would complain about
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Okay...|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
What buff would you give /Devices that
a) made sense for the set |
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| b) buffed it enough to matter |
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| c) would be something no one else would think other sets didn't equally deserve |
and
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| d) no one would complain about |
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That one ultimately stymies everyone. I don't envy the devs basically always failing that criteria.
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
D'oh!
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I read this thread, and go "Huh, so they're doing the smart thing and buffing Blast Sets, because Blast Sets in general are weak as hell. It's a good thing this isn't blaster specific."
Then I see "OMG THEY ARE BUFFING BLAST SETS IN GENERAL BLASTERS ARE DEAD AGAIN."
Then I go "You all do realize Defenders and Corruptors are only good because of their Primary and Secondary respectively, right? Nobody cares about their damage in most scenarios because blast sets suck."
I don't get this community. Quit asking for it to be Blaster Exclusive or more difficult for the other two Blast ATs to benefit from it. >_> It's almost like none of you realize how bad Blast Sets are, and it goes BEYOND the Blaster AT.
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There was a hint about MA/DB for Blasters? That is awesome, what was the hint? I watch the video but didn't hear it.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
You left out the pretty big hint about a version of Martial Arts and Dual Blades as a Blaster secondary.
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When asked about a MA/DB-esque secondary for blasters... Hawk said nothing.|
Originally Posted by Power_NA
There was a hint about MA/DB for Blasters? That is awesome, what was the hint? I watch the video but didn't hear it.
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Vs "we know you want one".
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Something must be wrong with me. I'm agreeing with Reppu and not even trying to make some crude innuendo with it.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
I read this thread, and go "Huh, so they're doing the smart thing and buffing Blast Sets, because Blast Sets in general are weak as hell. It's a good thing this isn't blaster specific."
Then I see "OMG THEY ARE BUFFING BLAST SETS IN GENERAL BLASTERS ARE DEAD AGAIN." Then I go "You all do realize Defenders and Corruptors are only good because of their Primary and Secondary respectively, right? Nobody cares about their damage in most scenarios because blast sets suck." I don't get this community. Quit asking for it to be Blaster Exclusive or more difficult for the other two Blast ATs to benefit from it. >_> It's almost like none of you realize how bad Blast Sets are, and it goes BEYOND the Blaster AT. |
Wait...it might be coming, give it a sec....
Nope.
Not only that, but the buffs to the secondaries *are* exclusive to Blasters but since it's not what people wanted, they're going to complain about it not helping.
*shrugs*
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I'm also fairly positive most people don't realize Blaster Secondaries are where the majority of their damage came from, which is the true reason why Devices has been so poor. Blaze and Bitter Ice Blast are exceptions to the Primary Power Pool being inferior to the Secondary Power Pool, with some other minor exceptions, and generally AoE.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Something must be wrong with me. I'm agreeing with Reppu and not even trying to make some crude innuendo with it.
Wait...it might be coming, give it a sec.... Nope. Not only that, but the buffs to the secondaries *are* exclusive to Blasters but since it's not what people wanted, they're going to complain about it not helping. *shrugs* |
In fact, it's funny. Blasters only really stand any ground due to their Secondary, as with Corruptors. Defenders with their Primary.
Their Blast sets? Garbage. Quit pretending this problem is Blaster Specific, because while Blasters are in a rough spot, it's catalyst also by their inferior damage Primaries. The buff to their Secondary is superb, and the Snipe Change will help cement their single target domination.
Ice Blast, Dual Pistols, Water Blast, Sonic Attack, and maybe one other set I might be missing? Dead. Dead and Buried. The snipe change is massive, despite what anyone might say. Absolutely massive. These four sets are absolutely dead in the water, and Water Blast dead on delivery.
Hopefully this is addressed in i24 beta.
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I think you're overestimating the snipe changes (and the fact not every user of them will always have them fast-cast solo or teamed). Remember: ToHit debuffs exist.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
I'm also fairly positive most people don't realize Blaster Secondaries are where the majority of their damage came from, which is the true reason why Devices has been so poor. Blaze and Bitter Ice Blast are exceptions to the Primary Power Pool being inferior to the Secondary Power Pool, with some other minor exceptions, and generally AoE.
In fact, it's funny. Blasters only really stand any ground due to their Secondary, as with Corruptors. Defenders with their Primary. Their Blast sets? Garbage. Quit pretending this problem is Blaster Specific, because while Blasters are in a rough spot, it's catalyst also by their inferior damage Primaries. The buff to their Secondary is superb, and the Snipe Change will help cement their single target domination. Ice Blast, Dual Pistols, Water Blast, Sonic Attack, and maybe one other set I might be missing? Dead. Dead and Buried. The snipe change is massive, despite what anyone might say. Absolutely massive. These four sets are absolutely dead in the water, and Water Blast dead on delivery. Hopefully this is addressed in i24 beta. |
Also, they did mention, if the snipe changes helped more than they anticipate, changes to sets without snipes may be in order. I've been brainstorming possibilities already that I may post up before the beta rolls around.
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I wonder if there's some sort of way to do an in combat/out of combat mechanic for the mines. Also I wonder if people would complain about something like that if it meant keeping the current version of the powers when used out of combat.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
What buff would you give /Devices that
a) made sense for the set b) buffed it enough to matter c) would be something no one else would think other sets didn't equally deserve and d) no one would complain about |
My guess is yes they would for some reason.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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Not true, some poeple will still play them, they have their advantages and are fun to play. |
Originally Posted by Reppu
Ice Blast, Dual Pistols, Water Blast, Sonic Attack, and maybe one other set I might be missing? Dead. Dead and Buried. The snipe change is massive, despite what anyone might say. Absolutely massive. These four sets are absolutely dead in the water, and Water Blast dead on delivery..
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Ice, so poeple down,
Pistol, you can use toxic, ice, or fire bullets.
Sonic, I forgot but don't it have some stuns?
Water, will it is new and do smashing + cold damage.
Also role play. But I am sure they will do something to make them more level with the new sniping thing. =)
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Sonic is all about the -Res.
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Originally Posted by Power_NA
Sonic, I forgot but don't it have some stuns?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
It's certainly not that. Quite the reverse.
The way I see it, the only problem with blasters is not their survival, but their ability to do damage. Blasters in general are not valuable because a brute/scrapper will deal comparable damage but survive more. That is most due to mez protection. If you indeed believe blasters should be more survivable, then mez protection is what they need. Again, though, I think that what blasters need is more damage. I'm afraid of these changes because I don't think they wil do a lick of good. I'm afraid that this will be the last bit of "good" blasters receive. I'm afraid that this will make getting the right changes that much harder. I just needed a minute to think about it. |
Just when I thought they were about to pull me back in...
I never liked Drain Psyche on Blasters personally, so giving a clone to all the sets, doesn't really appeal to me.
Blasters problem IMO isn't survival based, as we've always been glass cannons. It's the fact that the cannon aspect has dwindled down to a bb gun compared to all other sets over the years that killed them for me. We needed a way to reclaim that damage crown, not be kept standing a few seconds longer dishing out the same anemic blasts.
I'll just take a wait and see approach for now, as there isn't anything to be changed at this stage.
/sadness.
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It does however have a couple stuns.
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Originally Posted by Doc_Reverend
Sonic is all about the -Res.
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MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
Short Range Attacks:
- Short range attacks, i.e. 40ft attacks like Blaze, etc, are having their range extended to 80ft, the same as other attacks in the set.
- This change also effects Corruptor, Defender and Dominator sets (And I assume PPPs, if they have any such attacks)
How about Electrical blast? It doesn't have a short-range power. I suppose you could gain the ability to summon a Voltaic Sentinel at 80 feet instead of 40, but that doesn't seem to gain much.
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Shockwave: KB|
Originally Posted by Doc_Reverend
Sonic is all about the -Res.
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Screech: Stun
Dreadful Wail: Stun
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I would assume making the snipes less of a joke would be a step toward having less 'anemic blasts'. Hopefully, the mez powers are up next.|
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
We needed a way to reclaim that damage crown, not be kept standing a few seconds longer dishing out the same anemic blasts.
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Originally Posted by OmniNogard
Screech: Stun
Dreadful Wail: Stun |
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Obviously this buff doesn't apply to Elec Blast, then, as it doesn't need it.
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Originally Posted by Thug_Two
Short Range Attacks:
How about Electrical blast? It doesn't have a short-range power. I suppose you could gain the ability to summon a Voltaic Sentinel at 80 feet instead of 40, but that doesn't seem to gain much. |
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Those changes may be in order, but it doesn't mean those changes will be quick.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
I think you're overestimating the snipe changes (and the fact not every user of them will always have them fast-cast solo or teamed). Remember: ToHit debuffs exist.
Also, they did mention, if the snipe changes helped more than they anticipate, changes to sets without snipes may be in order. I've been brainstorming possibilities already that I may post up before the beta rolls around. |
While I don't think the sets that lack Snipes will be completely buried, I do think Reppu is right in so much as they'll be played less.
"What?! This set lacks the uber Snipe?! OMG FAIL!"
That's just how the community goes.
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Honestly, I think this'll be the case for Defenders and Corruptors in particular.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Those changes may be in order, but it doesn't mean those changes will be quick.
While I don't think the sets that lack Snipes will be completely buried, I do think Reppu is right in so much as they'll be played less. "What?! This set lacks the uber Snipe?! OMG FAIL!" That's just how the community goes. |
Defenders and Corruptors can hit the +ToHit requirement permanently with heavy slotting of Tactics/use of the Kismet unique (or Farsight on Time Manipulators).
This means that the snipe change may well be a pretty solid bump in performance for those sets on those two ATs.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Feel a bit stupid for even bothering to bring this up...but what about from a PvP standpoint, in regard to snipes.
Psy blast is so far and away the best in pvp it isnt funny..as is Fiery Assault for Doms. Both these sets get a snipe. Granted, the dom has a harder (impossible, when solo?) time getting the to hit, but the blaster...pop aim, bu, snipe. And with that utterly stupid delayed psy projectile speeds..people are going to be dead before then even see the blaster (with 150 ft + boost range).
Oh..and not to mention blasters with base buffing emps getting them constantly over the to hit..
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I see three ways a Dom can hit the ToHit requirement while solo: |
Originally Posted by MisterD
Feel a bit stupid for even bothering to bring this up...but what about from a PvP standpoint, in regard to snipes.
Psy blast is so far and away the best in pvp it isnt funny..as is Fiery Assault for Doms. Both these sets get a snipe. Granted, the dom has a harder (impossible, when solo?) time getting the to hit, but the blaster...pop aim, bu, snipe. And with that utterly stupid delayed psy projectile speeds..people are going to be dead before then even see the blaster (with 150 ft + boost range). Oh..and not to mention blasters with base buffing emps getting them constantly over the to hit.. |
Soul Drain, which locks you into the Soul Mastery APP.
Build Up, which is only available for Electric (Thorns has aim, but no snipe to use it with, so that's irrelevant).
Sets with Power Boost/Gather Shadows (Icy, Earth, Energy and Dark) can run fully slotted Tactics and the Kismet unique, and will meet the requirement -only- as long as Power Boost is active.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
By all means advocate your case to the devs; I'm just pointing out the decision they have to make is not whether to make you happy or not, but to decide who they are going to pick to take your place. Its not a trivial decision.
Make Time Bomb into something amazing, give Targeting Drone some killer +dmg, hell, give /Devices some mez protection. That would be unheard of for a Blaster secondary, incredibly awesome and it doesn't touch the effectiveness of a single ranged blast set.
You say I'm merely asking to be happy and let someone else be unhappy, but how does a direct Devices buff not help Devices without making other people "unhappy". Also, the assertion that I'm hoping to be happy at the expense of other players is uncalled for.