Intriguing Massively Article


Agent White

 

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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth View Post
my problem is that Praetoria is not a superhero game. It is a secret agent/resistance sci-fi game. Just like redside is not a comic book villain zone, it is a dystopian anarchist sci-fi zone.

I want a superhero game. Starting in Atlas provides that.
A lot of the stuff here isn't superhero. I don't mind some variety but, yeah, let's get back to some stuff that resembles the comics, supers, etc.


 

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What? An article about CoH that hasn't been redname reposted eight times here, with four face book posts, and eighteen tweets/seventy-eight retweets? Must be the weekend!


There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.

 

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Originally Posted by Father Xmas View Post
Also I wonder if it's accidental or intentional that the article isn't tagged as a CoH article even though it's their weekly CoH column. Tin foil hats anyone?
I'm gonna guess accidental:

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Tags: a-mild-mannered-reporter, city-of-heroes, city-of-villains, coh, coh-going-rogue, conspiracy, conspiracy-theories, cov, cox, crazy-theories, crazypants, culture, expansions, f2p, featured, free-to-play, freedom, going-rogue, mild-mannered-reporter, ncsoft, opinion, paragon, paragon-studios, speculation, superhero, superheroes


@Roderick

 

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Originally Posted by TheJazMan View Post
It raises concern for the future of the game when you see things flopping like the Praetorian zones did.
To be fair the devs kind of have a history with this, one part is the 'relentless march for new shiney!' that seems to be the mandate and the other half seems to be completely underestimating their players.

PvP, Bases, City of Villains, Mission Architect, Praetoria, the five big failures of City of Heroes, the common theme with them all...they all need major content and overhauls in order to make them more appealing BUT the devs now completely lack the time due to the new 'new shiney!' approach to go back and actually spend some time working on these things.

PvP is..well...god awful in CoH, it needs a good, long, hard look over. Issue 13 was meant to be the start of the PvP revamp and....well there has been nothing since.

Bases is an interesting one because it's not so much they don't want to do something with them, it's the fact they downright just plain can't. They have no freaking clue how the coding for bases works and instead are limited to tentively poking it with a stick and hoping they don't break the entire game if they change something seemingly remotely minor.

City of Villains needs basically a complete overhaul to get away from the 'Arachnos Lackey' storyline and the completely drab and depressing zones, that's another expansion packs worth of content right there.

Mission Architect...well..we all know how this one panned out, now left abandoned and broken by the Devs. The rating system is crap, it's filled with dross that's just plain broken and unplayable, the filter on words is frankly freaking ridiculously restrictive to the point of nonsense (if you type Thorium the word is censored because it contains the word Thor). It needs to be gutted, the rating system completely reworked and...you know...actual attentioned paid to it by someone.

Praetoria, sure First Ward and Night Ward will be atleast decent because you can take characters from outside Praetoria into them but the normal 1-20 range. Firstly the entire point of Praetoria, taking Brutes heroside, blasters villainside etc. was completely destroyed by the new tutorial. Secondly it's in a level range that you blow through in a team or can be a real damn slog if your solo especially fighting the increased difficulty of the Praetorian enemies who are blatently designed for high level play and the metric ****ton of ambushes that the missions throw at you.

There's just too much work to correct the mistakes of the past, the AE buildings themselves now seem to stand as a testament of Dev folly.


Badge Earned: Wing Clipper

A real showstopper!

 

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Personally, I see Going Rogue as a flop because, from my on-the-outside-looking-in observations suggest the whole thing was originally designed to be a giant end game system with Praetoria serving as the content, which was then retrofitted in the most bizarre system of content distribution I've ever seen: Some at the start, then raids at the end.

I don't know why this happened, but someone seemed to have gotten it into their head that raids are what would turn City of Heroes from a niche game into a monster, possibly arguing that successful MMOs have raids, thus City of Heroes should have them. Plus, look! People keep asking for them? Old arguments of being unable to keep content production up with content distribution that Jack and Matt themselves made eight years ago seem to have been either forgotten or ignored. By Matt's own admission, Incarnates were not supposed to be a bit of content, they were supposed to be a "system," kind of like how Inventions were.

My guess is that because Inventions proved so popular, our leads became convinced that if you give people more stuff to earn, they'll be perfectly happy to rerun the same small subset of content over and over again. That it took a full year before we even got through that... No, we do actually want story and we do actually want small-team content and we do actually want alternate paths that aren't a monumental grind is something I attribute to part of the misunderstanding.

I attribute the whole thing to someone in management being convinced that raids would be massively popular, enough to justify the huge budget of a full expansion, all pretty much just for that. Sure, it's more popular than bases and PvP, but it's probably around the level of popularity of playing villains - there was a peak of massive activity, which is down to about moderate interest now. It's enough to generate profit, but I don't think this was ever going to cause a massive boom of subscriptions and veteran returns.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Wow. What a garbage article. How did this get posted? It's not journalism, in the least. It's nonsense. No wonder it didn't have the cojones to tag it as City of Heroes.

I almost hope someone gets beaned in the head for this one. Nethergoat nailed this mess on the head, this is a ludicrous thing to see posted on any gaming website that fancies itself as 'journalism'.


 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Personally, I see Going Rogue as a flop because, from my on-the-outside-looking-in observations suggest the whole thing was originally designed to be a giant end game system with Praetoria serving as the content, which was then retrofitted in the most bizarre system of content distribution I've ever seen: Some at the start, then raids at the end.
Going Rogue was designed at the same time as the Trials, and was 1-20 from the start - the Trial locations were already in the zones before the system even launched.

One thing that did seem to change from the original plan for Incarnate Trails was them being first announced as "zone events" - which seems like they had planned them to resemble the current 2 zone Trials with the Hamidon and the Mothership - which would explain things like the gun turrets at Lambda Sector, which don't really do much, but were quite possibly intented to eb the pylon-style triggers for the zone raid.
The sonic fence pylons around the BAF, and the bunkers on Keyes Island were also possible raid triggers in the original design.
My guess is that there were performance issues with tryign to have zone raids in the Praetorian zones, plus possible problems with working out the contribuition system for the rewards if someone moved in and out of the range of the raid - switching the raids to instanced maps would give the devs much more control over the players and the events of the Trials.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Originally Posted by Reppu View Post
Wow. What a garbage article. How did this get posted? It's not journalism, in the least. It's nonsense.
Yeah, it ain't Fox News.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Yeah, it ain't Fox News.
Don't you mean Fox Noise?

Sorry, but it's still not journalism either way. It should not have posted on a 'gaming journalism website'. It's unprofessional garbage.


 

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I hate to post this because in doing so I admit that I sometimes read Massively, but their CoH correspondent never posts anything but off-key whines about a few minutiae of the game that he never acquired the capacity to accept. In that sense he seems like a great fit for the official forums and of course I'm kidding.


 

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Originally Posted by Zyphoid View Post
So now we have destroyed their lives because we are going to either bring them all to primal and relocate them, or we are going to have to deal with Praetorian Hammi. There is more to do after Tyrant falls.
Nope! None of that is the heroes' problem. We've punched the bad guys in the face, declared righteous victory, and can now go home in triumph, leaving it to others to pick up the pieces. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! Right, GG?


My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City

 

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Originally Posted by jwbullfrog View Post
GR introduced quite a few things to the game that we now take for granted.

-New graphics: Anyone remember the days of no shadows and no reflections? I do. The game looked good before but now? Much better. also, GR has shown that a form of open world can exist in this game. Anyone see war walls there? Nope? Good.
I do, because I still run the game without shadows and reflections. My computer just doesn't handle either well. Nor does it handle Praetoria particularly well - which is one of the reasons I don't often go there. First Ward especially - it's laggy AND it has terrain that is tricky to get around. Water, broken buildings surrounded by plants, etc (New Atlas is a little better but still isn't completely smooth. New Dark Astoria I seem to have no issues with.) It's just too much of a pain to get anywhere, so I don't bother with it.

GR was also so angsty. I'm not really the angsty sort.

I also just really don't want my characters to be Praetorian. I dunno why, I just like the idea of being Primal better. *shrug*


Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level

 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
The 1-20 content was designed to build up to the co-op content - that's why all 4 paths end with Tyrant as the enemy - there's no "yes, my Lord" ending anywhere in GR - you're either continuing to fight for freedom, or you turn against your former master.
Which made the major point of GR completely and utterly pointless and worthless.

The alignments and moral ambiguity goes out the window when you hit 20. NOTHING you do in Prae matters since at 20 you can become a hero right after spending the first 20 levels murdering anything and anyone.

In other words, GR storyline=completely worthless and irrelevant prior to 20.

Just saying.


Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
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Originally Posted by Fista View Post
True but is it deserved?
*points to the recent news involving JP Morgan Chase*


Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
*points to the recent news involving JP Morgan Chase*
the structure of our economy not only encourages but DEMANDS short term thinking from publicly held companies.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
I think that simplifies things *way* too much.

We went from two zones, five (seven if counting the PB and WS) starting contacts and, if not a lot of variety, at least a different mission *feel,* to... well, what the same problem redside had, "here's the exact same thing with the same, very few contacts, all over again."

Why do DFB? Because the tiny, tiny bit of starting content gets stale *fast* and people want to rush past it after the first run or two.
And running DFB umpteen times to get to 20 doesn't get old? Or freaking 50 as I've heard some folks do? (The latter just boggles my mind, but I digress.)

Even with Inherent Fitness, there are still a lot of players who think the game doesn't start till at LEAST 20, and they want there as fast as possible.

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Now, granted, that's not just a COH thing - but more starting *variety* would be nice. (Part of why I'd mentioned in the beginning "1-50 Origin arcs," as well - plus, really, starting out with someone other than Matthew "hey, look at our phase tech we barely use" habashy for once would be nice.)
Praetoria has all sorts of starting variety. I think it's a fantastic introduction storyline. But it was built for solo play. You can run one of the four full arcs solo on base difficulty with minimal to no street sweeping and make it to 20. But after Freedom and DFB hit, the bulk of the playerbase pretty much proved that's not what they want. Granted the arc for Twinshot leaves a lot to be desired (but I'm one of the 8 players who actually likes Flambeaux, so I don't mind it as much) and the Graves arc was written for a -very- specific character type and is downright infuriating at points up until, imho, the end. (And I actually prefer starting as a Crusader or Loyalist for a villain to running Graves.)

But why bother with Twinshot or Graves when you can grind DFB past both of them in a fraction of the time?


Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.

good luck D.B.B.

 

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Originally Posted by Agonus View Post
And running DFB umpteen times to get to 20 doesn't get old? Or freaking 50 as I've heard some folks do? (The latter just boggles my mind, but I digress.)

Even with Inherent Fitness, there are still a lot of players who think the game doesn't start till at LEAST 20, and they want there as fast as possible.



Praetoria has all sorts of starting variety. I think it's a fantastic introduction storyline. But it was built for solo play. You can run one of the four full arcs solo on base difficulty with minimal to no street sweeping and make it to 20. But after Freedom and DFB hit, the bulk of the playerbase pretty much proved that's not what they want. Granted the arc for Twinshot leaves a lot to be desired (but I'm one of the 8 players who actually likes Flambeaux, so I don't mind it as much) and the Graves arc was written for a -very- specific character type and is downright infuriating at points up until, imho, the end. (And I actually prefer starting as a Crusader or Loyalist for a villain to running Graves.)

But why bother with Twinshot or Graves when you can grind DFB past both of them in a fraction of the time?
Uhmm running DFB once gets you to 7/8 which is fast and easy. DFB also gives you a lil boost in the form of a temp power which makes KR, Hollows, and Perez imo much more enjoyable. No one said do DFB to 20...those were your words

Notice how Memphis Bill said "starting content" to which I took as AP; which is level 5/6...not quite 20


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Originally Posted by Paladiamors View Post
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

 

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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
Which made the major point of GR completely and utterly pointless and worthless.

The alignments and moral ambiguity goes out the window when you hit 20. NOTHING you do in Prae matters since at 20 you can become a hero right after spending the first 20 levels murdering anything and anyone.

In other words, GR storyline=completely worthless and irrelevant prior to 20.

Just saying.
Dude, they don't know that. Going from Praetoria to Paragon guarantees a clean slate.

Furthermore, it's up to you whether you decide to outright kill or handcuff every badguy you "defeat," but when you see demon-summoning heroes, heroes unloading grenade launchers point-blank at purse snatchers, longbow using flamethrowers against catgirls, longbow using flamethrowers against wolf pets...

The line was crossed long before that. it's hardly an issue.


you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you <3

 

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Originally Posted by Party_Kake View Post
Dude, they don't know that. Going from Praetoria to Paragon guarantees a clean slate.

Furthermore, it's up to you whether you decide to outright kill or handcuff every badguy you "defeat," but when you see demon-summoning heroes, heroes unloading grenade launchers point-blank at purse snatchers, longbow using flamethrowers against catgirls, longbow using flamethrowers against wolf pets...

The line was crossed long before that. it's hardly an issue.
Sooo you'rte making my point, that the alignment system developed in GR was pointless? That you can just pick any random choice in the options presented and it has no bearing on whether you become a hero or villain?

good to know.


Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
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Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

 

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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
Sooo you'rte making my point, that the alignment system developed in GR was pointless? That you can just pick any random choice in the options presented and it has no bearing on whether you become a hero or villain?

good to know.
It's called 'roleplaying', which is all it was ever going to effect in an 8 year old system.

Quit your complaining.


 

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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast View Post
Uhmm running DFB once gets you to 7/8 which is fast and easy. DFB also gives you a lil boost in the form of a temp power
And there are (I think) five to choose from. So running DFB five times makes sense to me.


Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

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Originally Posted by Ironblade View Post
And there are (I think) five to choose from. So running DFB five times makes sense to me.
The most I have ever ran it on a single toon is twice; same goes for DiB.
I no longer run the AP arcs/missions because they simply bore me.


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Originally Posted by Paladiamors View Post
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

 

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Originally Posted by Fista View Post
How old are you? I've played missions where you have to go solo out side of Praetoria. So I guess I was right after all.
Name one.