A little late... but Tyrant was RIGHT!
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
We were keeping an "eye" on them the entire time, now if another dimension was doing that to us we would see that as an act of war
We've invaded other dimensions and destroyed their civilians/populace simply to fix our scanners.
All those missions we go into other dimensions to fix the dimensional rifts, instead of seeking out a peaceful solution what do we do? Yes we charge in and destroy all who get in our way to fix the rifts or simply to repair the scanners so we can continue to spy on other dimensions.
Sometimes you have to stand back and wonder just what makes us think we are so important that we can judge what is right or wrong in another dimension? We started the war with Praetoria, a dimension in which while their methods were questionable, they were a place of peace [in relative to our own] that had at least delayed a monster so strong that it could wipe our own dimension out.
With us invading Praetoria, we have awakened the beast to possibly destroy the dimension. A lot of the heroes/villains havent even gone there to save the people of Praetoria, but rather to seek more power along the paths of their incarnate lines.
So ask yourself this. Who are the real bad guys here?
- The person who was able to stop/delay a monster so strong that nothing was able to defeat it? A person who [despite his methods] is trying to create a peaceful place for his people?
- The people who have looked over to this other dimension and decided they are in the wrong and should be using our ideals as their laws. The people who have initiated a war with another dimension to reach their own goals?
The destruction of Galaxy City as a quick example. We know what has caused that and what is indeed on its way. Instead of getting the planet ready though and telling them about the coming storm, we are keeping it to ourselves and getting ourselves stronger.
Primal earth needs to be wiped out
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
All those missions we go into other dimensions to fix the dimensional rifts, instead of seeking out a peaceful solution what do we do? Yes we charge in and destroy all who get in our way to fix the rifts or simply to repair the scanners so we can continue to spy on other dimensions.
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![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Okay, how did Primal Earth shoot first?
By making contact with the resistance first? Opening the portal to Praetorian earth? Sending in probes as they discovered things? Getting kidnapped by praetorians and needed to send heroes through to recover them? Discovering that there had been established various cells of Praetorians on Primal earth and sent them packing back to where they came from? I tried looking it up, but I could not find anything (so either my search fu is weak at this moment) or a "revised history" from Devs have not gotten out to the public. |
![](http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/jontalbain-win3.gif)
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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I don't remember any of the mobs on those maps ever conning neutral to us until we attacked
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Oh so what your saying is that when you invade other dimensions, everybody is an enemy eh?
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
Oh so what your saying is that when you invade other dimensions, everybody is an enemy eh?
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![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
![EEK!](images/smilies/eek.gif)
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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How dare they attack the aggressive alien invaders that are trying to secure our foothold into their dimension!
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![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Standing there, in their dimension, after we've thrown up forcefields around the area. Oh, and already put monitoring equipment on their world to spy on them.
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In real life, countries keep an eye on potential security risks to them and their people, and in a comicbook multiverse, that idea's just expanded to be dimensions keeping an eye on other dimensions for the same reason.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
It'd be irresponsible for us to not keep an eye on other worlds, especially ones ruled by evil people - they're always a potential security risk.
In real life, countries keep an eye on potential security risks to them and their people, and in a comicbook multiverse, that idea's just expanded to be dimensions keeping an eye on other dimensions for the same reason. |
Our dimension must be covered with scanners then
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
We quite often will even invade other dimensions where there are no humans and simply filled with hydra. With the information about Nemesis and the Rikti Invasion [how that all came about], you can see why Praetoria felt threatened by our being there.
Our dimension is full of heroes and villains who are quite happy to jump through to other dimensions [rikti home world] or timezones [Cimerora] and mess about with it.
Simple Question time! What would Primal Earth do if we found out that Praetoria was spying on us?
Edit: Our dimension goes one further by not only spying on a dimension like Praetoria, but sending in help to their Resistance thus automatically becoming an enemy of the state.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
Don't forget, Portal Corp isn't the only group that does cross-dimensional research. Arachnos has their equivalent, as does Crey, and the Traditionalists, and any number of the independent mad scientists that the Rogue Isles are infested with.
And Nemesis. A million times over. Don't forget the time he slipped into another dimension and killed billions of people because they were too black for him.
I'm sure all the heroes in Paragon are fantastic people, and Portal Corp is a responsible corporate citizen, but Primal Earth really sucks at cleaning up its own messes. If my entire population's lives were entirely dependant on not making some science horror feel threatened, learning that Primal Earth knows where I live would freak me out.
Primal Earth has invaded multiple dimensions at this point, including causing the government of one world to be overthrow, replaced with a very pro-war group.
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A pre-emptive strike against Primitive Earth is the only prudent response to evidence such as Rikti Earth. We can only pray that the Great Leader will not fail in his endeavour to keep the good people of Praetoria safe from more primal incursions.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
We were keeping an "eye" on them the entire time, now if another dimension was doing that to us we would see that as an act of war
![]() We've invaded other dimensions and destroyed their civilians/populace simply to fix our scanners. All those missions we go into other dimensions to fix the dimensional rifts, instead of seeking out a peaceful solution what do we do? Yes we charge in and destroy all who get in our way to fix the rifts or simply to repair the scanners so we can continue to spy on other dimensions. Sometimes you have to stand back and wonder just what makes us think we are so important that we can judge what is right or wrong in another dimension? We started the war with Praetoria, a dimension in which while their methods were questionable, they were a place of peace [in relative to our own] that had at least delayed a monster so strong that it could wipe our own dimension out. With us invading Praetoria, we have awakened the beast to possibly destroy the dimension. A lot of the heroes/villains havent even gone there to save the people of Praetoria, but rather to seek more power along the paths of their incarnate lines. So ask yourself this. Who are the real bad guys here?
The destruction of Galaxy City as a quick example. We know what has caused that and what is indeed on its way. Instead of getting the planet ready though and telling them about the coming storm, we are keeping it to ourselves and getting ourselves stronger. Primal earth needs to be wiped out ![]() |
You don't HAVE to slaughter the populace, mind. Just because your 'hero' is actually a 'villain' doesn't mean every single individual who's done those missions hasn't stealthed through them. Blaming Primal Earth as a whole because you can't play a hero, is not exactly Primal Earth's fault.
But I'm sure you, as someone who can pass judgment on an entire dimension, obviously always stealthed those missions and kept hostile actions to an absolute minimum.
(Spoiler: You didn't.)
I think both you and Kitsune Knight are badly hyberboling how 'villainous' Primal Earth is. Probably for rebellious reasons. Maybe you simply think Praetoria is utterly and ultimately innocent and should be the 'true heroes' of the game. Or maybe you're just both really, really poor heroes.
Believing the later, personally.
In the end, sure. Ultimatum no doubt screwed the pooch. Did Marcus Cole HAVE to come to the decision to go on the offensive? No. As much as you'd both would love to paint Primal Earth as the true villains of the game, there was little excuse for Marcus Cole to ignore any benevolent gestures offered, or even offering them himself. Considering he has shown the ability to have compassion, this? This was just a ham-fisted excuse.
Again, I understand. You two just want to villainize Primal Earth. I also acknowledge you're using poor logic and hyperbole, but I get why you want to do it. It's 'cool' to get against the crowd.
Doesn't make you both wrong, though! Just because you shot your gun in self defense, doesn't magically make the blood on your hands turn to water. Praetoria is just as guilty as Primal Earth, if not infinitely more so.
They shot back, a thousand fold. Their fate was their own doing. And so was every other dimension that flipped out just because another one was 'reaching out'. Admittedly Primal Earth isn't entirely innocent, but damning the entire world for isolated incidents?
You both make great villains!
(Amongst other choice words.)
If you had, say, a few agents placed in Portal Corp or in a similar position, you'd be well aware of these "primals" and their fascination with invading dimensions that has never done anything to them, or is not even aware of them.
A pre-emptive strike against Primitive Earth is the only prudent response to evidence such as Rikti Earth. We can only pray that the Great Leader will not fail in his endeavour to keep the good people of Praetoria safe from more primal incursions. |
I'm probably going to change 'great villains' to 'generic villains', if this keeps up. Seems you all do the same hyperbole and hamfisted approach. Weak!
Eh, this is the "Longbow is evil" argument all over again. People with an axe to grind will paint Primal Earth as the aggressor in everything it's involved in, despite the fact that Tyrant is revealed to be very much a card-carrying villain and horrible, oppressive ruler. I'm not a fan of what iTrials have us do - essentially go to an alternate dimension and make life miserable for everyone - but that's just me not liking the methods. If we want to be objective, there's really no excuse for not trying diplomacy before you start building an army of death robots. I thought General Bu'Dekka established this as early as Issue 10.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Praetoria is just as guilty as Primal Earth, if not infinitely more so. They shot back, a thousand fold. Their fate was their own doing. And so was every other dimension that flipped out just because another one was 'reaching out'. Admittedly Primal Earth isn't entirely innocent, but damning the entire world for isolated incidents? |
Thats why i put up the "primal is evil too signs"
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
I think both you and Kitsune Knight are badly hyberboling how 'villainous' Primal Earth is. Probably for rebellious reasons. Maybe you simply think Praetoria is utterly and ultimately innocent and should be the 'true heroes' of the game. Or maybe you're just both really, really poor heroes.
Believing the later, personally. |
Eh, this is the "Longbow is evil" argument all over again. People with an axe to grind will paint Primal Earth as the aggressor in everything it's involved in, despite the fact that Tyrant is revealed to be very much a card-carrying villain and horrible, oppressive ruler.
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But that's more taking things to the extreme. Not going quite that far, seeing things from the perspective of others should help guide your actions and it very often seems they don't for heroes in CoX.
![](http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/jontalbain-win3.gif)
I think you two are doing the opposite, attempting to paint Primal Earth (and Longbow) as shining light heroes and their targets as simply villains.
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That's not the representation they went with. No, all the Praetorians are evil ********, Cole is a puppet who never defeated the Hamidon and the whole dimension's armed forces just want to Krush Kill 'n' Destory. There's nothing to argue when it comes to morality any more. The writers pretty much up and said "Praetoria is evil and needs to be destroyed!" abandoning the moral ambiguity of the matter entirely. These days, the Praetorians are as morally ambiguous as the Church of Unitology is interested in self-preservation. And that's not me dismissing arguments to the contrary, that's the writers going the route of elemental evil.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I think that they should have put some Praetors who arent pure evil into that world, just to try and create a sense of true balance within the world.
One thing that does confuse me about Praetoria is that Cole is the leader but you barely hear anything about him. Each attack is of course approved by him, but it seems [to me at least] that it is the Praetors who are all trying to gain his attention/approval that are calling the shots really.
It almost feels like Cole is reluctant to engage in any sort of fight.
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As already established earlier, Tyrant's truce also forced his hand in regard to the discovery of Primal Earth. He couldn't be seen as trying to form an alliance with Primal Earth, for fear of Praetorian Hamidon reigniting the war and wiping out the rest of humanity. And, considering that most of our growth in power occurred as part of the war, it's quite likely that we couldn't actually have been of much help, just a danger.
Maelstorm probably also informed Tyrant how a huge portion of the Primal Earth population was a bunch of power hungry, violent villains, that already had a record of igniting inter-dimensional wars. That won't exactly make you confident the other side will stick their kneck out for you. And, lets just for a moment say Tyrant had secretly reached out and formed an alliance with Primal Earth to fight Hamidon... and somehow the alliance won... Would Praetorian Earth be in any position to keep Primal Earth from deciding that would be a convenient time to end the little alliance and gain ourselves a second earth?
Tyrant had no "good" options available to himself.
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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@Redcap
ANARCHY = A Society that does not need government
114. Ahrouns do not appreciate my particular brand of humour, so I should stop bleaching bulls-eyes in their fur.