A little late... but Tyrant was RIGHT!
Anti-matter is confirmed to be alive. In the MoM trial if you speak with Metronome he expresses regret that we didn't kill Praetor Keyes.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
Edit: Wait, I misunderstood. I was referring to Statesman and Sister Psyche. You're right, hero was the wrong choice of words.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
Even then, he's not technically a hero.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
Don't argue with Slaunyeh about the status of Cole right now. He's pseudo in-character, with a stance Emperor Cole and Praetoria are righteous, and 'Primitive Earth' is evil. At this point, if he doesn't accept the game lore for what it is, he's roleplaying a terribly brainwashed individual.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
Don't argue with Slaunyeh about the status of Cole right now. He's pseudo in-character, with a stance Emperor Cole and Praetoria are righteous, and 'Primitive Earth' is evil. At this point, if he doesn't accept the game lore for what it is, he's roleplaying a terribly brainwashed individual.
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![Frown](images/smilies/frown.gif)
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
You don't always get good writing.
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
What do you mean "hero"?
Also some Praetorians it's confirmed we killed: Malaise Praetor Tilman Diabolique Col. Duray(Well WE didn't...) Nightstar & Siege Possibly killed: Anti-Matter Tyrant(As of i23 trial) Shadow Hunter(As of i23 trial) Swan(I23 trial) Chimera(I23 trial) Neuron & Bobcat(Seeing as the message "Bobcat seeks vengeance!" appears across your screen...) It IS a war, after all. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
He had an excuse. He no longer has one. At this point, as I said before, he's an overgrown child who has to be right, and is willing to destroy everything if he HAS to be wrong. He is no hero, not anymore. He is a villain. A complicated one, but a villain none the less. There is nothing truly 'tragic' about him anymore. Not due to i23.
Villainize Primal Earth as much as you need to, but this was Tyrant's own undoing. You're still (largely) wrong on Portal Corps methods (again, kill all in dimensions you're monitoring is a choice. I personally have always stealthed them for minimum casualities, rendering your barbaric argument null and void. The requirement is NOT a kill all. That is your option, as a villain.) Primal Earth is largely 'Good', with it's pockets of Evil and many shades of Gray. Praetoria's command is largely 'Evil', with it's pockets of Good and many shades of Gray. Deal with it, or don't! But certain people shouldn't dig up the past and try to paint my entire argument as an RP Absolutist God-Complex... thing. More like "Read the lore you keep citing." |
![](http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/jontalbain-win3.gif)
Let me stop you... there. Again, necessary evil. When it comes to my personal roleplay, Villain Assistance is an absolute last resort, and has to come as a direct, higher-in-command order (Lady Grey, so on). To suggest it be willing and openly embraced is something my character personally scoffs at. A mission's a mission, even if she's terribly unhappy about the circumstances.
As for people only helping to become the Champion themselves, I have to admit to not liking that being railroaded in, and would like if Paragon pursued the options of people either wanting to become Champion themselves, or stressing that some people are simply doing it because a Hero is willing to make those sacrifices.
A lot of my issues with the Incarnate Arc is the level of... doucheyness that we, the players, are toward Prometheus. It plays us all up as being power-hungry and self-centered jerks. Unless it's to show us the Well is slowly making us more egotistical and insane. If so, well, bravo? But I don't like being railroaded.
In the end, my heroes do what they do because they have to. A hero will do whatever it takes, within reason, for the greater good. If that means shouldering the sins of a villain as they stop a greater threat, so be it.
But she will very, VERY often tell them to pike off if she seems them in Pocket D, or GOD FORBID the "Villains but are Hero Labeled for Easier Leveling" are known to her. They even get party kicked with an apology for it, OOCly. ;P
Again, necessary evil. |
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
Still doesn't dismiss the villain element. Because, to many villains, they speak to Lady Grey under the conditions of "Sure, I'll help...but I'm taking as much well juice I can carry to increase my incarnate powers to run everything how I want so it's only a matter of time..." and her answer is pretty much "........... .......Granted."
You'd have to be pretty dense, as a hero, to not know this and beyond desperate to the point of insanity to actually pick up the axe and march into battle and not do everything in your power to resolve things some other way. Yup, Cole basically throws in all his chips in an effort to win...but heroes are doing the exact same thing...
And villains reap the rewards, of course...
...that is, unless those heroes are desperate to grab at that well juice too in order to attain a balance. Just admit it! You're no pure and shining light of justice, hero! An ounce of grey is worth the world in darkness for many villains but a hero attempting to justify the means is but a step away from black.
![](http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/jontalbain-win3.gif)
That would be an interesting idea to have him come back more powerful and seek vengeance on the Incarnates who destroyed his dreams. Although, I will say that if he himself is not dead, his reputation as a 'benign' ruler is. (Of course it's been declining since the events of the TPN Campus trial.)
Sometimes the destruction of your reputation is worse than the destruction of your physical self. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
And villains reap the rewards, of course...
...that is, unless those heroes are desperate to grab at that well juice too in order to attain a balance. Just admit it! You're no pure and shining light of justice, hero! An ounce of grey is worth the world in darkness for many villains but a hero attempting to justify the means is but a step away from black. |
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Still doesn't dismiss the villain element. Because, to many villains, they speak to Lady Grey under the conditions of "Sure, I'll help...but I'm taking as much well juice I can carry to increase my incarnate powers to run everything how I want so it's only a matter of time..." and her answer is pretty much "........... .......Granted."
You'd have to be pretty dense, as a hero, to not know this and beyond desperate to the point of insanity to actually pick up the axe and march into battle and not do everything in your power to resolve things some other way. Yup, Cole basically throws in all his chips in an effort to win...but heroes are doing the exact same thing... And villains reap the rewards, of course... ...that is, unless those heroes are desperate to grab at that well juice too in order to attain a balance. Just admit it! You're no pure and shining light of justice, hero! An ounce of grey is worth the world in darkness for many villains but a hero attempting to justify the means is but a step away from black. |
Making assumptions based off nothing but your own perceptions of the game is silly. Go by the lore or don't go anywhere.
It's almost like you haven't read the thread.
Making assumptions based off nothing but your own perceptions of the game is silly. Go by the lore or don't go anywhere.
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Which is a hero perspective. I suppose if you're basically handwaving villains involvement away, as if they're *only* helping out of the goodness of their heart or even their own self-preservation.
It's almost like you haven't read the thread. |
Even if Cole is having a temper-tantrum, a *true* hero would still have compassion for their enemy...but I guess annihilating him is just as good.
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
![](http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/jontalbain-win3.gif)
And how is going off a Villains perception of the game different from:
"To suggest it be willing and openly embraced is something my character personally scoffs at. A mission's a mission, even if she's terribly unhappy about the circumstances." Which is a hero perspective. I suppose if you're basically handwaving villains involvement away, as if they're *only* helping out of the goodness of their heart or even their own self-preservation. I have and heroes seem to always try to justify their own failings, in more than just the i-trials. It gets down to the meat of what a hero actually is: someone who tries to help everybody and do the right thing. But it's hard being right and it's impossible to rescue the world. Rescue hostage from mission but fail? "Oh, we teleported them out just in time!" Alexis dies? "Bah, the writers suck!" Have to work with villains? "Pfft, that's not my hero's perception!" Excuses excuses. Even the best of the best screw up, to turn one's nose up to those who may once have been a hero is practically the opposite of a hero. Even if Cole is having a temper-tantrum, a *true* hero would still have compassion for their enemy...but I guess annihilating him is just as good. ![]() |
And Cole's annihilation is his own doing, nothing more.
You're suggesting, by no in-game text, Heroes are more than happy to help Villains. You can't cite this, or even begin to cite this. And yet there's cases of organizations like Longbow and Vanguard Sword being absolutely livid about this (although to borderline villainous levels). The fact is, there is no evidence Heroes support this. At all.
And Cole's annihilation is his own doing, nothing more. |
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
You're suggesting, by no in-game text, Heroes are more than happy to help Villains.
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But I wonder, after this war, how many orphanages or metropolitan areas your heroe's lenience have doomed to destruction by an army of incarnated villains...a necessary evil, I suppose.
![Cool](images/smilies/cool.gif)
![](http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/jontalbain-win3.gif)
Also some Praetorians it's confirmed we killed:
Malaise
Praetor Tilman
Diabolique
Col. Duray(Well WE didn't...)
Nightstar & Siege
Possibly killed:
Anti-Matter
Tyrant(As of i23 trial)
Shadow Hunter(As of i23 trial)
Swan(I23 trial)
Chimera(I23 trial)
Neuron & Bobcat(Seeing as the message "Bobcat seeks vengeance!" appears across your screen...)
It IS a war, after all.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara