Poll: Vote for the COH Forums Reskin
By
00039,
Posted on: 2012-05-01 13:40 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Sam, you can keep your house in my headbones, so long as you keep putting my thoughts so well onto screen |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I go to Sweden for a week and I miss this? OK, then enjoy my "on the outside looking in" perspective.
It's ridiculous to me to see a poll go so clearly and unambiguously in one direction and yet have the decision made in the other direction. I haven't seen the reasons for this, but I can't think of a justifiable reason to pick what the poll clearly showed people did not want over, say, NOT updating the forum background. If you have to, leave a flat back background with the City of Heroes logo until you work out whatever technical problems there are. And I hope there are technical problems, because otherwise this casts polls from our community team in a very negative light. If I could, I'd vote for option 1. I find Penny is in a much more appealing pose in there. Her head doesn't look like Trollface and she isn't constrained to the "people leaping at each other" motif that we've had going for some time. If we're going for a static shot I'll be seeing over and over again, I'd rather it were a more neutral one, because I don't really enjoy seeing my heroes perpetually scowling like I logged into the City of Leifeld forums. Pick poses and pictures appropriate to the environment you'll be using them in. Penny standing up looking strong and tall is, to me, much more appealing than penny twisting her spine, twisting her ankles and twisting her face. I dislike the current loading screen Penny pick. In my case, it's not so much a question of sexism, so much as I just feel this is a terrible picture. I don't know who made it (David?) so I don't want to spit on it, but I really do not like it. The one offered as Option 1 is not only superior for the forums, in my opinion, but I'd also like to see it in the actual game. To me, it's simply a superior pic. In fact, the way she's posed and with the low-res pic, Penny's face paint kind of looks like tattooed tears, making her looks a bit like Diamanda Hagan, which just makes her look all the more impressive. In short, this decision is gravely disappointing, more so with the poll results. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Okay...as I'm just now seeing this...how did we go with the far worse version of the forum skin?
I just can't believe that a poll resulted in 85% to 15%, and the 15% result was still used.
I really appreciate that you made sure that the margins were adequate for forum functionality, but you should have done the same thing with #1 instead of #2. You still can.
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I really, really hate the current forum skin. There is absolutely nothing appealing about it. I've adblocked it on a few computers where I visit these forums and I resent the fact that any similar art is on the game's loading screen.
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There were complaints about both options featuring the characters down the side, as they didn't work well with smaller screens - and as one of them had been drawn just to work as down the side characters, the other option was chosen instead, as it was more flexible.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
Okay...as I'm just now seeing this and noticed it's the 5th and not the 9th like the poll said...how did we go with the far worse version of the forum skin?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Option 1 was made just to work down the sides - option 2 works better at the top.
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Originally Posted by Liquid
I just can't believe that a poll resulted in 85% to 15% and the 15% result was still used.
I really appreciate that you made sure that the margins were adequate for forum functionality, but you should have done the same thing with #1 instead of #2. You still can. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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k.|
Originally Posted by Party_Kake
They're artworks from other sources that are being re-used, I imagine. They're not going to design brand-new full page spreads of characters for the FORUM headers that most of you don't see anyway!
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
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Pointing out they've had better options already, so it isn't something new.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That one's been used several times already:
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Yeah, that looks awesome. So...why pick the one that the majority very clearly hate? Herpaderp...
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
Pointing out they've had better options already, so it isn't something new.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I do, from the bottom of my heart, apologize to anyone who may find this is a betrayal of trust or duplicitous in nature. It's never our intention to have to change an initial decision, but sometimes it does happen.
I made this decision, so if you must assign blame, assign it to me. As the lead for the Community team, I often times have to make decisions that are controversial or counter to popular or vocally expressed opinion. In this case, I looked at the options we had available, in the time we had available, and made a decision.
Our original intention *was* to give the Community an option in this matter. Unfortunately, circumstances didn't work out. Production schedules being what they are, we did not have the option to resubmit this skin for Community consensus. In the end, it was far more important to me to not alter the size of the reading pane and thus change the structure of what you're actually looking at 99% of the time on these forums; The posts and the words contained therein.
I'd like to be clear on one thing: There is never any guarantee that something submitted by popular consensus will be the final version. Whenever possible, we will absolutely give you the option, as has been evidenced by content such as the upcoming Retro Sci-Fi costume set, but there is never an implicit guarantee.
Thanks
-Z
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
/thread
Seriously, close the thing after deleting my post.
Your explanation and apology should be all that needs to be said.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Well said Zwill, and thank you for that at least. Still, an option to go back to the older skins would be nice, at the least. How hard would that be, exactly?
I personally preferred having States and Recluse up there. That was, in fact, my all time favourite. It rocked.
Make it an option, please?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Thanks for apologizing, but in case my post was misunderstood (not that I think you're only responding to me) I want to be clear: I fully support the margin changes, and thank you for making them. Poll results aside, they are more important to me than the art, and I'm grateful that you took that feedback on the margins into account.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Our original intention *was* to give the Community an option in this matter. Unfortunately, circumstances didn't work out. Production schedules being what they are, we did not have the option to resubmit this skin for Community consensus. In the end, it was far more important to me to not alter the size of the reading pane and thus change the structure of what you're actually looking at 99% of the time on these forums; The posts and the words contained therein.
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However, in case it wasn't clear, what I was trying to say is that I don't understand is how it became a choice between the winner of the poll with margins that were too large for a forum, and the loser of the poll with smaller margins.
If it came down to you, personally, feeling that the margin change invalidated the poll results due to the nature of the art, I disagree, but that's all I'm going to do about it if you absolutely can't devote the resources to modifying #1 like you did #2. I honestly didn't care that much either way about the art itself until people voted overwhelmingly for one and got the other.
Thanks for your time.
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Just want to offer my feedback again.
Zwill, Community team, this entire thing is a non-issue for me.
I thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for wanting to give us a chance to affect what image is used on these forums.
I know and understand things can, and often do, change and the nature of best laid plans and all that...
I find it utterly ridiculous to take this end result negatively. I mean no offense to anyone, but that is my honest and true opinion.
I appreciate all the effort this company gives to integrate the community into actual development of ideas.
From costume pieces to powersets... It's a wonderful thing.
I am, honestly, a bit mortified by the reaction to this situation.
I have respect for the people making these decisions and for the very nature of making these decisions (and all the many factors that are involved).
It is sad that so many people seem to blindly react in ways that would logically lend things to transition into not bothering to keep the community involved at all.
My reaction here, though, has nothing to do with a fear that you would stop involving the community... You've shown a pretty great insistence on pushing forward with such approaches and I don't see you so easily daunted.
I just find it a bit of a shame when some people react so strongly, and negatively, over a rather simple thing that was a kind gesture to begin with.
Thanks again, Zwill and everyone involved.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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I have a question: When it was discovered the player choice wallpaper didn't work, why not abandon the swapover and retain the old background? Failing that, why not just drop a solid black background that's of the correct size or proprotion or whatever is necessary? Were those options considered?|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Our original intention *was* to give the Community an option in this matter. Unfortunately, circumstances didn't work out. Production schedules being what they are, we did not have the option to resubmit this skin for Community consensus. In the end, it was far more important to me to not alter the size of the reading pane and thus change the structure of what you're actually looking at 99% of the time on these forums; The posts and the words contained therein.
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Secondarily, will you look into swapping the background into Option 1 when time permits? Failing that, would you look into swapping it for something else with I24? You can always repeat the poll and this time make sure you actually CAN act on it? Even if it takes a while, that might serve to restore some faith in the long run.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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While I much preferred #1 I was far more concerned about the forum sizing. Whatever had to be done that was crucial for me and I greatly appreciate that you took sizing concerns from people like me into account. Even with the sizing as it is and a 22" monitor I have to enlarge to 150% to be able to read the forums. Text size is a serious issue for those with impaired vision.|
Originally Posted by Liquid
Thanks for apologizing, but in case my post was misunderstood (not that I think you're only responding to me) I want to be clear: I fully support the margin changes, and thank you for making them. Poll results aside, they are more important to me than the art, and I'm grateful that you took that feedback on the margins into account.
However, in case it wasn't clear, what I was trying to say is that I don't understand is how it became a choice between the winner of the poll with margins that were too large for a forum, and the loser of the poll with smaller margins. If it came down to you, personally, feeling that the margin change invalidated the poll results due to the nature of the art, I disagree, but that's all I'm going to do about it if you absolutely can't devote the resources to modifying #1 like you did #2. I honestly didn't care that much either way about the art itself until people voted overwhelmingly for one and got the other. Thanks for your time. |
Thank you.
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Thanks for the apology.
Although I'd most rather want to see something else then Penny and Shadow Hunter on the forum. Seeing Penny on the game login makes my leg hurt. If there was an option to turn off the background on the forum... I would have done so Zwill.
My reaction (did see the new forum background and then your apology) was "oh no..." After all I have a feeling the third (not made option in the poll) would have been "Do nothing!"
Statesman and Lord Recluse are iconic characters for me in CoH. So the "oh No feeling" was coupled with the same feeling I got when I first saw the Circle of Thorn new outfit that the Devs wanted to give us and their reason. (Devs liked it, had worked much on it and did not want to waste it -My understanding of it.)
The new Thorns are still not the Circle for me... BUT back to the case at hand.
Can we get an option to turn off Shadow Hunter & Penny? Or get the choice to pick between that and the prior one?
(And sad to say I'm already looking around to see if I can change the game log-in screen) 
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Heh. Since this is already technically a poll post...
All those in favour of a non-Penny/SH background?
Aye
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I made this decision, so if you must assign blame, assign it to me.
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While I'm at it, now that I'm looking at it every day, something's been bothering me about Penny's appearance, and it finally hit me that her chest is wrong. I'm not sure how to best explain this, but her cleavage shouldn't extend all the way up to her neck in a top like that. It should stop half way and the top "flatten out" near her neck. It looks like she's wearing inflatable breasts around her neck, if that makes sense.
And:
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You can use Zombie Man's Hero Skin or Villain Skin and it will block it. You can also use Adblock Plus to block it.|
Originally Posted by Lady Arete
Can we get an option to turn off Shadow Hunter & Penny? Or get the choice to pick between that and the prior one? (And sad to say I'm already looking around to see if I can change the game log-in screen) |
Check your PM's also.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
I will ask again. sighhs
Can we at least have a wallpaper of the other option perhaps?
Unfortunately, we don't have the option to offer different backgrounds in the same way we can recolor the frames (hero/villain skins). I tried pushing for this option to be available, as I previous stated I would, however the amount of time it would take to develop this option is going to take significantly longer to get on the schedule.
It's not to say it's a dead issue, it simply sits further down on the priority chain than other requests I have in, such as upgrading to the most recent version of Vbulletin and offering a mobile friendly skin for the forums.
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
3) I fully expect this post to get deleted, under the newly-created "Inappropriate discussion of the aesthetics of the human form, subject to moderator discretion" clause. Hmmmmm. I wonder why that clause was instituted just now?
See my conclusion from point 2). You knew you were about to start using softcore porn to sell your product to teenagers, and you decided to institute a policy enabling you to delete or modify the posts that call you out on it.
How do I know that? I have a printout of that post at home and at work. I'm looking at it right now. I also have a printout of the new version of the rules. I wish I'd had enough foresight to do that with previous incarnations of the rules just so I could post them somewhere to show how little they've actually changed over the years. Then consistency of the enforcement of the rules is all that has changed very much in all that time. I doubt anything will change in that regard in the future.
The only new part of that is the written addition of "subject to moderator descretion" which is an out if they WANT to leave a discussion up. The "discussion of the aesthetics of the human form" was in the old rules with the additional part that they removed in this version "(particularly that of models, actors or actresses)". Several of us referred to that as the "Christina Hendricks" rule.
You are just cheesed off because they enforced the rule that had been there for almost 2 years.
It broke the old version of the rules and it breaks the new version of the rules. The new version just removes one specific aspect of the wording and implicitly states that they have discretion about whether to remove the posts or not.
Your incorrect conclusion has been proven wrong.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.