why aren't you playing a defender?

I love my Sonic/Sonic Defender, but that's really the only Defender I've been able to get behind. (I screwed myself by falling in love with Blasters, and now I can't help but compare the high damage of ranged attacks off Blasters to the lower damage coming from Defenders.)

Why don't more people play Defenders? 2 reasons: The majority of the population is not happy with their character's primary purpose being Buff/Debuff, and/or players fail to understand that Buff/Debuff is a Defender's primary purpose, and then get turned off by the low damage output and write the archetype off all together. A similar statement can be made for why people prefer to play Brutes over Tankers, since a Tanker's primary purpose is survival and aggro management.

Just yesterday I was thinking about rerolling an elec/elec blaster as a kin/elec, but I'll probably go elec/kin instead because every kin power I looked at seemed to work the same on a corruptor. I don't care that much about getting the kin powers earlier, certainly not enough to give up scourge. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing, but I'll wait six levels for Fulcrum Shift quite happily if I can go from being a damage dealer technically because I'm a defender with kinetics, to being a damage dealer who also has kinetics.

I just don't see the point in making it a defender and giving up all that damage. Vigilance isn't something I feel I can build around. I guess I could skimp on end reduction for team-only powers like buffs, but otherwise I don't see it as a solid feature I can do much with. I'm certainly not going to build the whole character as endurance-challenged just so I can reap the benefit when I'm on a team of half-dead people. The damage buff is certainly appreciated, but I team enough that it often goes unused. I don't know how to improve the situation, either, but I do hope defenders get something that makes them a clearly better choice for reasons other than getting the powers earlier.

This makes me sad, as one of my best characters is a defender. I love the idea behind the AT, but I think corruptor secondaries are too close in power to defender primaries after Going Rogue and side switching. For what it's worth, I feel the same about scrappers and brutes: if the mechanics don't favor the hero AT (such as Sonic Blast's debuffs on a defender, or scrapper powersets that work better with criticals than with fury), the villain AT is probably a better choice. And I say that as someone that never plays redside, so these are not my pet favorites from back in the day.

I'm already playing one - I help defend the rest of the team by flattening enemies fast

After level 38 there is less advantage to being a defender. Now, a defender is better when ex'ed down since there are powers that a corruptor won't have.

With so much focus of late on level 50+ content, I can see why there are less defenders being played.

I love my defenders, but I don't make defenders now that I can create hero corrupters. The corrupter inherent is just too good and I can have the same powers. The numerical difference between defender and corrupter support is insignificant, but the damage output difference is huge.

reading through this thread again, I think the title and focus should shift along the lines of making Defenders worth playing in a game with universally available corrupters.

defensively they're very similar- in practice if not mathematically.

offensively, corrupters completely destroy defenders.

Other than purely thematic or RP reasons, where's the reason to play defenders?

More often than not, Corruptors are an overall better character when built with the same sets as a Defender.

The only really outstanding exception to the above is Sonic Attacks.

I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30))
Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.

I play defenders. I assume the reason why defenders are becoming rarer is because corruptors can essentially accomplish the same job while having a higher damage output. Although defenders have higher buff numbers, the difference isn't always that noticeable.

Corrupters are easier to get through the painful 1-21 slog due to having a higher damage modifier and better power selection early on, and the damage advantage is still noticeable after that. If you can DFB a Defender into the 20's they're pretty decent, much better than more broken AT's like Blasters. If you have to solo your way to 22, it will be painful, which makes it harder to get one started on lower population servers. Meanwhile, the Corrupter's support disadvantage is unnoticeable in raid content due to overlapping powersets, and in team content it's more than sufficient unless you're trying to keep a squishy tank alive with a weaker healing powerset.

That said, they're a solid AT. The only buff I would give them would be to have Vigilance reach the 30% cap at level 10 instead of 20. The pre SO levels are agonizing on them with your damage buff still working its way up and your powers slogging along on borderline useless TO and DO enhancements.

I DO play Defenders.

Several of them, even though I generally solo if I can't find a team of people I actually know already to play with.

I have always preferred, and likely will always prefer support based characters. I prefer Defenders over Corruptors, because I don't like having to wait longer for my Support powers to unlock.

@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too

As others have said... I *do* play Defenders.

I have a Sonic^2, a Force Field/Rad, an Empathy/Rad, a Rad^2, a Dark/Archery and a Dark^2 all at 50+3, as well as an Empathy/DP at 28 and I like them all quite a lot. I also have a 50+3 Dark^2 Corruptor, and he has his moments, too.

I just don't try to solo any of them. XD

The thing for me is always concept first. Pure damage numbers or fotm builds mean little to me. That being said, I do notice a disparate ratio of Defenders to Corruptors. For everyone Def I see, there a dozen Corrs which to me indicates that something should be done to better balance the two AT's. The two fulfill very similar roles but due to the Corruptors higher damage the Defenders higher but not noticeably higher buff/debuff nubers the former enjoys an actual performance benefit, hence the popularity of the AT. Of course this is something everyone in this thread already is aware of. Does the Def's higher defence numbers make up for its offensive shortcomings?

To agree, yes it does but a boost to AT'S damage while perhaps an easy fix, does nothing to separate the two AT's from stepping on each toes. The devs have also stated that they think Defenders are where they want them to be, so a damage boost seems unlikely. So if that isn't in the cards for the AT, rather buff what they consider a well balanced AT, why not reduce the Corruptors abilities?

Perhaps scourge only being a 50% damage boost instead of doubling the damage? Or reducing the chance of scourge occuring? Again, while a change, it may not enough to truly differentiate the two AT's. My favourite idea is reduce the effects of the Corruptors buff/debuff nubers to half of those the Defender provides. That way it gives more separation, allowing a player to choose higher damage but noticeably weaker buffs or lower damage but noticeably higher buff effects.

I play them a lot actually, think i have 6 overall, including 2 that are higher tier incarnates. great fun in a team. their damage is still kind of slow going solo, but the biggest disincentive solo for me is how they can be chain mezzed. my sub main, seraph blue is a emp/lit defender who actually does some acceptable damage, but fighting the rikti is a cast iron pain in the butt because while the auras may make her survivability better, a mentalist can either force her to make half her insp tray eggs or get chain held, which is a dull way to go.

noting the rest of the thread, i really only have 2 corrupters, no reason, if anything its the names i guess, corrupter still sounds nasty, but really it just never comes up. also, most of my defenders are pre freedom, so they were alreadye stablished before the universal at thing. and when i was playing villains, it was more likely a Dom or a brute anyhow.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

My personal issue with defenders is they make the game too easy and not really fun at the same time (and I'm not one to believe an easy game is unfun).

Corruptors still make the game too easy but not always as bad, due to lower mods on buffs/debuffs, and are actually more fun thanks to higher damage, Scourge and getting those attacks sooner.

That said, I'm having issues playing either AT since I got the Blackwand. Why even pick attacks when a vet power you get at level 1 will do more burst *and* DPS, up until, perhaps, level 30... Sigh. Nothing except Fire Blast and Sonic Blast is worth playing, and Sonic Blast isn't satisfying. There's only so many fire blast characters I can make before wanting to do something different.

I don't play Defenders because Corruptors exist.

Solo, I find Defenders painfully boring, and on a team their higher buff/debuff numbers are mostly redundant.