Longbow .. Friend? Foe? or whatever

Trolls are people who post things they don't personally believe just to provoke a reaction. I don't do that. I am a WYGIWYG application: What You Got Is What You Get. I speak my mind. If you can't handle that, too bad. Much like the rest of the world I am not here to spare your delicate sensibilities, which you are cordially invited to shove where the sun doesn't shine.

I will also point out, for the record, that I did not at any point insult anyone. The inciting incident consisted of me pointing out a ridiculous statement. If someone is so thin-skinned as to consider this a grievous offense that person needs to get off the net. We'll manage without them, trust me.

I didn't even look at the post count until later in the discussion. I don't really care one way or another. Arcanaville's gotten the same from me as I gave this scrub.

Go to maps.google.com and type in "Bermuda". This is the Internet, where most of the accumulated knowledge of mankind lives. I didn't know where Bermuda was until it came up in discussions here -- I thought it was down by Florida, actually. In any case, it only takes a moment to fact-check small details like this and if you can't be bothered to take that moment then you deserve to get called out on it when you screw up.

Actually that's kind of the problem with the net. As it was explained to me, decades ago (back when we had those BBS things instead of this newfangled 'intertubes' hibbity-jibbity...I go back to 300 baud ), people come out here who are used to being "the smart guy" in their own little cliques only to find out that everyone out here is "the smart guy". People on the net aren't going to treat you in that nice, comfortable deferential manner you're probably accustomed to. They're going to get in your face, call you out on your mistakes and challenge your opinions (which, let us note again, can be wrong) in ways you're probably not used to. All of that is a good thing, frankly. If you can't deal with someone being confrontational on the Internet then why should anyone believe you have the chops to deal with "crunch time" in the real world, situations that have gone pear-shaped?

Putting aside the inaccurate classification, please make up your mind. If I'm driving people away in droves I'm not exactly "powerless".

I would say that might be the case with Nerva

but according to the map something like that isn't possible cause Nerva is actually placed furthest from the US Coast

Actually, you are. You may be able to evoke a reaction sometimes, but don't you ever wonder how much what you say really matters when other people who've been here just as long as you say "ignore him"?

I'm here to talk to people who have more to contribute than half-baked insults. My post may have been inspired by you, but it was not about you per se; it was about the culture of rudeness that exists in most places on the internet. You are utterly without any significance to me. You are, in closing, nothing. I would say that from now on I'm going to ignore you, but you can't ignore nothing. It's not there to be ignored.

Honestly, no. I don't control how people choose to respond to what I have to say.

In a way you do control how people respond. And this thought process is what makes you generally ignorable.

Take what you said

"Dude, do you know where Bermuda is? If the Rogue Isles are anywhere near the 50-mile line they are nowhere near Bermuda. And vice-versa."

Instead you could have chosen a much less aggressive and volitile wording which would have resulted in progressing the discussion instead provoking aggressive and volitile response. For example:

"That's actually a huge inconsistancy with the portrayal of the Rogue Isles. If they're supposed to be near Bermuda, they can't be near the 50-mile line, and Vice Versa. It's just not possible geographically."

The fact you described your style of communicating the message as "shrapnel" and "a Bullet" is proof positive that you know full well how you choose to communicate to others and how it's recieved.

You obviously don't care that you're a mostly ignorable figure on the forums, as you continue choosing to portray yourself in a superior way without regard to courtesy or manners, and act in a condesending fasion to anyone without an identical opinion. And people respond to that in a very consistant way. Just don't act defensive when people respond accordingly, or pretend that it's something outside your control.

No, I don't. People choose what they want to be offended by.

Actually I treat their opinions in a condescending fashion.

No, actually, they don't. Some get their panties in a wad because I wasn't "nice" enough to them. Some take umbrage and blow up; some fire back. The ones really worth talking to ignore the delivery, focus on the content and respond accordingly, perhaps with a good-natured snark or three thrown in just to keep me honest.

Writing villains who do bad things doesn't make one a bad person. Neither does playing one, either as an actor or as a PC/NPC in a tabletop game. I've had to roleplay some very bad people as a GM. Stories need villains and sometimes those villains have to do things worse than steal forty cakes.

Except that's not what they were supposed to be. They were supposed to be an altruistic alternative to Hero Corp, and Hero Corp has never been portrayed as anything like a PMC. Hero Corp is literally heroes for hire. They're not mercenaries and no lore exists that portrays them as such. If there's anything shady about them, it's that they attract as much super-crime as the mundane crime that they prevent, with an implication that they could be creating the super-crime themselves in order to justify their exorbitant contracts with their customers.

Freedom Corp's mission was to be early responders in the case of disasters and large-scale emergencies, much like a super powered National Guard. Training is, or was, their primary function before CoV, which is why they have offices in an each of the early-to-mid-game zones. By level 30 or so you've outgrown them, and they don't appear any more.

Blame it on Ms. Liberty or just blame it on whoever decided that villains needed a force to reckon with and that force needed a familiar name attached to it. Either way, someone perverted Freedom Corp's mandate and turned them into something like a PMC. It's ironic that an organization created by heroes like Statesman to show that commercial interests should not sully the purity of altruistic heroics done for the public good, would find itself sullied by political interests instead by the descendants of those very heroes.

Actually, no.

Not that Venture needs any defense from me, since he's perfectly capable of defending himself should he see a need (and frankly, the need is questionable) but if you're new around here and you're judging him with the apparently knee-jerk reaction that you're describing then you're misjudging him.

That's all I have to say about that. Venture isn't everyone's cup of tea by a long shot, but he's not a troll. If you keep an open mind when you read him, I think you MIGHT come to recognize that. Maybe not. As I said, he's not everyone's cup of tea, and quite a few people find him unpalatable but that doesn't make his criticisms any less valid. For quite a few people, the real problem is not what he says, it's HOW he says it. "mean-spirited" is in the eye of the beholder, but he seldom says whatever is on his mind due to some desire to harm or step on another person.

Now, if you feel that everyone ought to have criticism handed to them with a dose of padding to soften the blow and artificial courtesy to make it taste less bitter, then yes, you might not like being on the receiving end of Venture's criticisms. That's a different thing than being attacked because the person just gets jollies out of attacking you, however.

In the end, the Ignore function is your friend. You don't like a forumite? Mute them and your forum experience becomes enjoyable again. I say that without a hint of irony - I've earned a few /ignores in my time, despite having certain other forumites commend me for being fairly reasonable about most things. Different strokes for different folks.

i.e. the only people "worth talking to" are the ones who don't challenge the behavior.

By the way...

Defending that sort of attitude by quoting Henry Higgins, of all characters, is like quoting Inspector Javert on the principles of justice. I'll just quote Eliza's answer to that defense...

And one of my favorite quotes from Heinlein on the role of politeness in human discourse...

On ignore, as far as I'm concerned. His rampant disregard for other people and often trollish behaviour makes him not worth reading.

You're almost correct. The best way to troll people is to tell falsehoods but present them as the truth, thus putting the person on the other side in a position of having to justify his position, at which point you can just aloofly dismiss that justification thus egging the person on and on. It's a very basic malicious argument that I've seen on these forums time and time again.

The real solution to it is to realise that this kind of troll feeds off your attempts to justify your own position, thus ignoring his words is simplest recourse. Hiding behind "the truth" when hurling insults is an easy trick to make, but also an easy trick to solve.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I am tired, tired, oh so very tired of this type behavior being defended as "oh, that's just his way" or "oh, he's just telling the truth."

Truth-telling need not be defined as intended-to-provoke snark and just general disregard for the feelings of others. There is a HUGE school of thought online in particular, that rudeness is the new currency, its the new way to go, rudeness is power and if you cant handle being flamed, well you are just WEAK, and get your sorry @ss offa the Interwebs and STAY GONE, YOU CAREBEAR.

Rudeness being the new norm is one reason the United States is on the verge of social implosion: rudeness rules the airwaves, everyone is screaming and no one listens because every last one of us is a very special, special snowflake who gets to disregard the rules of orderly conduct. it sucks society-wide, and it sucks when people get flamed for absolutely no reason on a message-board when they're trying to share their love of a given thing with likeminded fans. Did [general] you think you were gonna find some cool people to hang out with and discuss your love of CoX?!! Well prepare to lose your illusion, weakling.....!

There's some real home-truth for you. Hope you're not offended.

Oh like Lady McBeth!

You and Sammy T may have misinterpreted my meaning.

The reason "telling the truth" is the most effective way of trolling is because no matter how detached the truth actually is from your argument, you imply that those who disagree with you are liars or disingenuous.

I could say something like "I think kittens are cute. It's proven that persons who are hurtful towards animals tend towards mental delusions." and by extension I would be implying that persons who like dogs over cats or who suffered trauma at the hands of a cat and therefore fear them are somehow wrong, inferior, or mentally deranged, which would be a travesty of logic and very offensive. That's trolling, or in essence, using my words to hurt people or to provoke a reaction from them (which can be further exploited).

Discourse in any public forum should be civil, to foster its growth. using your speech to hurt or obstruct speech is hypocritical at best.

Don't believe the lies! Longbow violated the geneva convention and it was unprovoked!


This message was approved for public consumption.

Actually they didn't the Geneva convention only covers countryies, Longbow is a privatly funded militia, and thus gets away with such things as using flame throwers within civilian areas.

I doubt the CoH world has the same (if they have it at all) Geneva convention as RL. For one, if you have mutant's who are living flamethrowers, then using one is likely not going to come up on the list of things to not use.

Don't even get me started on that. I prefer to just enjoy the calibre of the writing of the Aaron Thierry arc and ignore the stupidity of the whole Arachnos invading Paragon City part of the story. When the developers write dumb stories because "Hey, it's comic books and comic book villains do that!" and players defend it because "Hey, it's comic book land and we shouldn't have expectations that our game would exceed the lowest levels of schlocky comic book plotting!" then there really isn't much you can say about it beyond /facepalm.

Yes, but I think that before folks begin tying Longbow on a stake to burn for their crimes, we need to be able to point out the hypocrisy.