Enhancement Proc Changes
I believe they should leave the system as it cureently stands alone and unmolested. If you want the PPM enhancements then spend the points for them. If not and the percent works for your build then get those as drops or from the BM/Went. Either way the system isn't currently broken and trying to fix something that isn't broken just might break it.
I have to say that I never liked the PPM system to begin with and seeing that the entire proc sytem is going to this is a bad idea. I will admit that in some case it is an improvement over the current % system but those are few and far between.
This will also have a negative effect on those run Radiation, Kinetics or any other power that speeds up recharge of skills. In a league when you have some that want the recharge and others that don't and these are now AoE. Someone(s) aren't going to be happy with the outcome.
Clearly this has wide reaching implications and will have to be further examined when beta opens.
For me in quite a few cases the procs are the primary reason for taking the power.
I don't mind procs being adjusted in a sensible way which is easy to calculate but this is totally the opposite of that. How are we supposed to know if a proc is a good purchase for a power now, too many new variables have been introduced into the formula. |
This will also have a negative effect on those run Radiation, Kinetics or any other power that speeds up recharge of skills. In a league when you have some that want the recharge and others that don't and these are now AoE. Someone(s) aren't going to be happy with the outcome.
Clearly this has wide reaching implications and will have to be further examined when beta opens. |
You seem to have missed a majority of the thread. Particularly, the part where Global Recharge isn't going to affect the PPMs at all.
After having read the first ten pages on this I have determined that if you are doing a build where you are counting on a proc (or multiple) as part of that build then you are doing it wrong. They are inherently unreliable and should NEVER be counted on in a build. They a a bonus, an "Oh that's nice" but to count on it happening just makes no since. Does that mean that I don't use them...nope, I use them a lot (every tank I have has the proc for psi damage in taunt)but I don't count on them to go off when I use them.
You seem to have missed a majority of the thread. Particularly, the part where Global Recharge isn't going to affect the PPMs at all.
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It is very likely I did miss this as there are quite a few pages for this thread...I appreciate you informing me that this has been addressed
After having read the first ten pages on this I have determined that if you are doing a build where you are counting on a proc (or multiple) as part of that build then you are doing it wrong. They are inherently unreliable and should NEVER be counted on in a build. They a a bonus, an "Oh that's nice" but to count on it happening just makes no since. Does that mean that I don't use them...nope, I use them a lot (every tank I have has the proc for psi damage in taunt)but I don't count on them to go off when I use them.
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You should only pick the powers that fit in with your concept and RP style.
Everyone else is "doing it wrong" as Caradoc has politely and intelligently put. A bonus to a build should never be factored beforehand, or else you ruin the surprise for yourself.
We all might as well assume procs have a 0% chance to go off, since averages obviously don't exist. Am I right?
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A thought occurs:
This change seems to have a larger impact on those who slot entire Purple/ATO sets, rather than frankenslotting - Purple/ATO sets have some of the best bonuses in the game, but come at the cost of almost halving the rate of their set's proc. (Purple sets give 89.92% Recharge enhancement, and Catalyzed ATO sets hit the high end of ED, recharge wise).
I'm honestly not sure if this is even possible, but what if slotting like enhancements raised the proc rate by a certain amount (like .67 PPM for each purple enhancement) to offset the recharge in the set? As it stands, almost more efficient to throw the purple proc into a buzzsawed power and go with the pure damage/mez enhancement in the purple set power.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
A thought occurs:
This change seems to have a larger impact on those who slot entire Purple/ATO sets, rather than frankenslotting - Purple/ATO sets have some of the best bonuses in the game, but come at the cost of almost halving the rate of their set's proc. (Purple sets give 89.92% Recharge enhancement, and Catalyzed ATO sets hit the high end of ED, recharge wise). |
I'm not against this change for my own sake. I'm rich enough to work around it and capitalize on this scenario. Many of my friends (and easily many other members of this community) are not.
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Now soloing: GM-Class enemy Adamaster, with a Tanker!
A thought occurs:
This change seems to have a larger impact on those who slot entire Purple/ATO sets, rather than frankenslotting - Purple/ATO sets have some of the best bonuses in the game, but come at the cost of almost halving the rate of their set's proc. (Purple sets give 89.92% Recharge enhancement, and Catalyzed ATO sets hit the high end of ED, recharge wise). |
However, consider that it's possible that this is intended. ATE and SBE purple procs have pretty high PPM values, ranging from 4-5 currently (which will become 5-6.25 in I24). This already serves to offset this effect somewhat.
As far as people who have slotted IO purple procs (non-SBE ones), they're mostly going to see a buff (in PvE). Assuming you slot five purple pieces and omit the <effect>/recharge (which is highly typical for everything but Coercive Persuasion), you get 59% recharge enhancement. Using the presumed 5.625 PPM for a purple proc in I24, to hit 33% proc rate or higher, your cycle time needs to be 3.52s. Assuming a 1.2s activation time, that means your base recharge time needs to be around 3.6 seconds. Very few powers fall under that - most T1 powers have 4s recharge times.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
*sigh*. More Nerfs . PPMs are cool now honestly because min/maxers can max them. With the cap being lowered to 90%, rech being raised(likely a tiny bit), and ppm's being raised across the board to be on-par with the old procs this seems like a royal waste of time. People like the PPM because they are better, gimping them and spending tons of time replacing all the old system with the same level of meh the old system had already is just...meh. lol. If PPM is being nerfed to be equal to the other I see no need for change. All this says to me is the market ones people paid for because they were better are being ruined.
It's nice to have 1 or 2 things in the game that are above-par, that you can enjoy using. An example of the last cool thing to come out and be ruined later were SSAs .
10 50's To Date! Check out Titan Sentinel; it got my CoH presence synced online
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
How does a PPM work in a damage aura then?
IE I have a power with Recharge modification is at 9 second recharge versus a damage aura.
Does that include caring about slotted recharge?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Doing so leaves you at around 7% less enhancement of that aspect. That may seem negligible, but on attacks with 4-second or lower recharge times, the recharge time enhancement is largely pointless. On a 4-second recharge, it shaves off 0.13 seconds of recharge time. Given how much of such short-recharge powers' cycle time is dominated by the activation time, and the nature of DPA's impact on chain DPS, you almost certainly do better with the pure enhancement in attacks.
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Generally, I slot Purple sets into whatever power has the highest DPA (In my Dominator's case, his Apocalypse set went into lift).
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
...I don't slot Purple sets into 4 second recharge powers - that completely defeats the point of the massive recharge enhancement values.
Generally, I slot Purple sets into whatever power has the highest DPA (In my Dominator's case, his Apocalypse set went into lift). |
I currently find it common to slot purples in even fast cycling powers when I am looking for other six-slot set bonuses than recharge. If I split the purple set by putting the proc in one power and the other five pieces somewhere else, I lose two of the six-slot bonuses I could have from some other set. So I want to put the purples all in one power, which sets up a conflict between where it is best to put the proc and where I would like the high recharge slotting of purples. In such cases, I will usually go for proc DPS, and put five purples, including the proc, in the power where I get the best DPS improvement out of the proc. Since this is often a low-cycle time power (the best places to put flat-rate procs), I usually omit the <effect>/recharge.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Not sure why nerfing something that I don't see players complaining about is really constructive.
Probably alot of things that need to be fixed other than something that doesn't appear to be a problem.
If you really feel that you didn't get what you paid for. Then call up your Visa or Master Card tell them you didn't get the item and it is in dispute. Let them hold back payment. Enough complaints happen who knows Visa / Mastercard might cut off NCSoft.
It is possible that Visa / Mastercard would refund your payment to you because you are their customer.
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Now about this numbers thing and how proc's work. I have never tried to figure out min max on builds. But since I now know that store bought IO's get nerfed. I won't be buying any either.
If you really feel that you didn't get what you paid for. Then call up your Visa or Master Card tell them you didn't get the item and it is in dispute. Let them hold back payment. Enough complaints happen who knows Visa / Mastercard might cut off NCSoft.
It is possible that Visa / Mastercard would refund your payment to you because you are their customer. |
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Across the board buffs for me woot! o.O
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA