Make Your Case (Plummit)
By
2short2care,
Posted on: 2012-04-23 20:59 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Parez Park. I would like to see phasing tech used there. After we run the Clean up the park mission I want the zone to become a park with families, kids playing with pets, and people throwing Frisbee.
Some plays or bands at the amphitheater, people fishing in the lake, the whole nine yards of a safe zone.
I want PP to represent an area where we have actually made a difference as heroes.
Let the Kraken still spawn there once in a while to scare the public, but for the most part keep it clean, after we have cleaned it up.
You can tie it to the Kill Skulls badge. If you have killed 500 skulls then PP is a clean zone when you go in it. Basically have 2 instances of PP, one that is he current suck, and one that is a nice clean park.
If you really feel the need you can have some muggings in those crazy back paths, and still have mission doors there. For the most part though have a family friendly environment where heroes can go, hold their head up high and say "I made this place safe."
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I'd support Boomtown or the Shadow Shard. Both have compelling reasons to be co-op and both have a plethora of story material that is ignored for no apparent reason.
Why in the world would they have just left Boomtown completely destroyed for all this time? There should at least be a government/Vanguard presence in there looking for extant Rikti bombs, clearing out 5th Column and Council cells, and keeping the Clockwork from taking everything that isn't nailed down. Speaking of them, it could be a prime opportunity to expand the story presence of the primal Clockwork. They've been harvesting the ruins in Boomtown for years. Surely they could have built the Clockwork Castle by now. Just saying.
The Shadow Shard received a pretty big cameo in WWD with Rularuu's involvement. I never understood why there weren't actual missions in there. It seems like the Task Forces (most of which are rarely run anymore) were some kind of attempt at a chronological story for the Shadow Shard. I think all of them could be updated and the zones revamped. Mole points should be bigger, bases fortified, and Vanguard should be there. Also, the villain groups that went there have been there long enough to establish footholds. Nemesis had a whole base there back when the Midnight Squad were probably the only other people that knew it existed. I liked the Nemesis air ship idea someone posted. That's what Nemesis is missing. He has all that steam powered old fashioned tech. He needs a war zeppelin.
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian
Have to be realistic here, redside isnt going to get a zone all to themselves are they. If they do, i cant see it being a large zone either.
There just isnt enough redside numbers to warrant putting in so much development and it would almost certainly have to be solo able too.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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I'm betting that's already in the works as the next Incarnate zone, like DA, for just that reason. That, and something said at the end of the Dream Doctor arc.|
Originally Posted by asgard_NA
Shadow shard. With so much emphasise on Ralaruu as of late, it should be high prioroty, especially letting villians access it at any level.
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All I'm saying is that I'd be highly surprised if they weren't already working on that.
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
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Doesn't mean there isn't the potential for redside numbers to grow if you give it some attention.
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Originally Posted by EU_Damz
Have to be realistic here, redside isnt going to get a zone all to themselves are they. If they do, i cant see it being a large zone either.
There just isnt enough redside numbers to warrant putting in so much development and it would almost certainly have to be solo able too. |
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The idea is that a red zone revamp could increase numbers - *if* there was more incentive to play over there. By all means, make all future red zone revamps co-op. There are enough rogues and vigilantes running around to merit joint content in any zone. But red side zones especially are in need of a makeover...|
Originally Posted by EU_Damz
Have to be realistic here, redside isnt going to get a zone all to themselves are they. If they do, i cant see it being a large zone either.
There just isnt enough redside numbers to warrant putting in so much development and it would almost certainly have to be solo able too. |
As for the Shadow Shard, methinks I'll be happily surprised this weekend...
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I think adding in "Rogues Gallery" NPC's would be a great addition to the scene as well, from both sides. They need more visibility anyway, and it would give heroes and villains a chance to really feel like they're taking out opponents. Maybe this could even be part of the rebuild/destroy play we're talking about.|
Originally Posted by Balanced
This would be a good place for a parallel zone, as opposed to either PvP or co-op. (I think most of us will agree that co-op is already getting pushed too far.) Each side gets a version of the zone, just as each side gets a version of Ouroboros. The kicker is that the each version gets random spawns of the other side's named characters. Blueside gets members of the Rogues Gallery, and redside gets Vindicators, the Civic Squad, and the like. They would usually spawn as a single boss or elite boss, but occasionally you'd get duos or even full teams.
The named mobs aren't just hanging out--they're on the way to a randomly selected mission door. If they reach the door, they go inside, and about 15 minutes later, a change happens in the zone. Blueside, a pile of construction supplies might be destroyed, and any amenities near it might become unavailable, or a contact might disappear from his usual location and be replaced with a beat-up model in the hospital who can't be reached by phone. Redside, temporary war walls might come up, making certain areas inaccessible, or there might be increased patrols of PPD or Longbow. Bigger "teams" of mobs would trigger bigger changes. The repeatable mission contact on each side should offer missions that reset these changes. See, the named mobs are running missions, or even task forces, to do those things, and you're ambushing them. |
However, what I was thinking was that it wouldn't be a direct PvP zone. It would still be a co-op zone. Heck, let the missions in them count as 'tip' missions, so if a villain wants to run with heroes, they could, but it could potentially 'tarnish' their reputation unless they made sure to cause a lot of havok beforehand (made sure they did all their villain tips for the day) or simply set to where heroes and villans can't work together, even though they can't fight either (making being a Rogue or Vigilante super beneficial for zones like these).
So for this case, I have no problem with zones being co-op, but each side should be catered to specifically in terms of story arcs and missions instead of making them the same, like in DA. In my example, My villain could spend its entire carreer in Boomtown causing chaos and destruction (while making a profit!) without once stooping to do something heroic if I didn't want. Likewise, my hero can save the day and help rebuild Boomtown without once doing something villainous. Two completely different experiences in the same zone! Any badges attached to missions would have its heroic/villanous counterpart (like how badges change when you change alignment) so there'd be no reason to run both arcs unless you just want to with friends on the opposing side.
Also, I imagine creating two seperate Boomtowns would take up a lot of resources as well.
EDIT: I also like the term Multi-use zones as well to describe these types of areas (just read ahead from the post I respnded to LOL)
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
The PvP zones. I think it's accepted that PvP has been crippled in this game, but I believe there is still a lot of story to be found in the zones.
With the events of the Praetorian war, Longbow have managed to capture Bloody Bay and have begun giving aid to it's inhabitants, but the Praetorians have taken interest in the original Shivan meteorites and some Arachnos cells still exist to cause trouble. The Shivan temp power is now gained by completing a repeatable mission, only available once every 20 hours. Other rewards include a random Temp power (charges stack!) from the Siren's Call bounty board, an inf bonus or an XP bonus. Zone level range 25-35 (repeatables 25-50)
Meanwhile Arachnos have gained Siren's Call as their foot hold, a stronghold of power for Lord Recluse against the city, but with Statesman's death, orders have been coming in sounding quite.. Merciful? Are these orders real or is something else going on here? Bounty board temps still available by completing a repeatable mission and choosing the Temporary Power option, one shall be selected at random but charges will stack. Other rewards include the Shivan temp power (We have a source, we plan to use these to lay seige on the War Wall door!), an inf bonus or an XP bonus. Zone level range 25-35 (repeatables 25-50)
With Marshal Blitz in hiding, Warburg is under so much chaos that any help is needed from both sides, opening the zone to level 25-50. Characters under level 40 will gain a small buff to all stats to try and level the playing field between the IOd crowd and those still getting to grips with the war. The zone is still free for all with Warburg nuke codes now also having a high (50%+) chance to drop by defeating enemy players with the usual drop-chance cooldown in play, or a lower (20-40%) chance to drop from NPCs.
Warburg isn't the only place in trouble. After so much meddling with the time stream plus alternate-realities and so many world-changing events occuring, Recluse's Victory has been seeing many strange faces, new and old! Reports of high ranking Vanguard getting involved on their own terms to stop the fighting with a healthy Hero 1, the Arachnos Patron's lackies trying to gain favour in Arachnos and even the likes of Nemesis have been seen attack by mole machine during times of stalemate, wielding his disintegration beam! Heroes and Villains have been called in to help stabalise or take advantage of the situation. The level of the zone has been altered to 25-50 with the same buff rules as Warburg.
This keeps a free for all zone and a Hero v Villain zone, PvPers are less spread out and the PvE players get two new zones with story, plus easier ways to get the temp powers. They can also have fun putting in details in Recluse's Victory, maybe have Lusca occasionally spawn in the lake, classic Recluse and Statesman (30s/40s/50s) battling it out, the Jade Spider going for a walk.. Melissa and Mike from the Faultline easter egg room just standing around drinking coffee near the globe.
I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
Union EU player! Pip pip, tally ho, top hats and tea etc etc
Here's my recommendations:
1) Boomtown. It's time; long overdue. Up the zone level; my best guess to cover holes might be 30-35. Although I'd rather make this a hero zone, with the devs' prior decree, it would obviously only be allowed as a Co-Op zone.
Take this unused zone and do a "Faultline" turn on it; 1/2 rebuilt, 1/2 desolation. Rebuilt half should have new Atlas Park style buildings, streets, etc with an airport (which, by the way, is shown on the old Paragon City maps).
Put an Arachnos/5th Column/Council base in the desolation zone for villain/rogue player characters to zone into; Place a forward command station closer to the line of demarkation between the two rebuilt halves of the zone.
This is a PERFECT zone to push the 5th Column and Council War to a new battle head. Also, Hero Corps is a totally usused entity. Let's get them into the game by trying to rebuild their HQ, while being attacked by Boomtown baddies.
Take out Babbage GM and put in huge 5th Column Mech Robot GM.
Here's a couple zone event options:
Zone Event 1 - Hero Corp HQ Construction Site.
- yellow recitcled characters of Hero Corp and whatever villainous group(s) the devs choose (Arachnos, 5th Column, Council) (this allows for vigilantes and rogues to choose a side similar to the "Protestor zone event" in Nova Praetoria). Use phasing tool to show a 'rebuilt' Hero Corp building or (if villains win) a destroyed Hero Corp building, surrounded by NPC victors.
- yellow recitcled characters of 5th Column, Council and Longbow. Player character gets to choose which faction to start attacking; the 'attacked' faction goes to a red reticle; others, blue and/or yellow. Same as "Protestor Zone Event" in Nova Praetoria, but to a larger scale.
2) Steel Canyon
Tweak the building styles to have a more modern look with reflective glass; keep the general layout. Add the long awaited "Space Port" to the upper right corner of the Steel Canyon map.
Update the factions in their respective zones.
Add a zone event for the Tsoo.
Add a repeatable missions NPC to fight Tsoo, Outcasts, etc.
Do (as recommended by someone earlier) an armored car heist zone or instanced event.
Move the base portal to in front of the University.
2) Port Oakes
This zone only needs a few functional tweaks; not necessarily cosmetic. Overall, the building and structures are OK, but there is a lot of wasted chances for doing content here.
Add a ghostly Pirate GM to the ghost fort area (Ghostly Pirate GM shows when one of the spectral badges are earned) , or a large mutated Coralax out in the southerly waters by Oil Spill (Mutant Coralax arrives when Coralax zone event is done).
Move Veluta whateverhernameis up towards the ghost fort; redo the ghost missions she had to something with a REAL purpose (maybe involving the ghosts at the fort...hmmm?)
Do something with the Family faction for goodness sake. There is a SLEW of mafioso-type, Rhode Island wise-guy stuff that is screaming to be missioned-up and arc'd out here. example: Gang War arc/storyline, with Family/Mook NPCs, each mission is you working one side against the other for your own villainous profit etc, then have both Family factions find out about your duplicity and both factions attack you for the final mission.
Couple zone events here also to choose from:
Zone Event 1 - Family Gang War
- Take two family factions (Family and Mooks (or a new Family-type mob faction)) are have a random-generated war in the streets, with dozens of Family thug NPCs with machine guns following one of two invisible paths through Port Oakes, drilling everything in site, including the RIPs, Arachnos, villain NPCs, civilians, etc. Have the war originate or end in the Family mansions area in top-to-mid center of the Port Oakes map. Have them all yellow reticled until you attack them.
- Use the Oil Spill Area and/or the waters between the sunken oil tanker and oil spill. The Coralax want a valuable artifact to provide for the Leviathan, but you want it for profit; fight a small (specific) band of Coralax, and then have their numbers get larger and more powerful each phase of the zone event. When the player character wins, they get a souvenir/badge/buff for defeating the Coralax rampage and gaining the artifact.
Food for thought.
I'd like to see Boomtown get a revamp...as a villain zone. It'd balance things out a bit more, and give an area to work as a sort of "staging zone" for villainous attacks on Paragon, letting them be more focused on anti-hero villainy than just rampaging around the isles. Make it a 30+ zone, and include a 30-35 Villainous SF, and you'd fill some of the general gaps of villain content.
The overriding question I have is why is coop the only way to share resources between sides? Why can't we revamp a zone and give a hero-view or villain view using either the phase technology or separate map server instances.
From a cost/benefit point of view, you would be able to take all of the art assets developed for the revamp and make them available to all of the player base. Yes, you would need additional server runtime resources, but you would need that for a new (not repurposed ala Dark Astoria) coop zone.
If not this approach, then the art assets should be reused as instance maps for missions and build a set of missions for the opposing side that would make use of the instanced zone maps.
Mr Energon
Confirmed altimaniac.
Along with the Boomtown comments, I'll second the notion of it being an ideal place for the 5th Column to have its new HQ. Now that they're back, the Council still controls Striga and has a spot in RWZ. Meanwhile, everywhere else the 5th is thrashing the Council all over Paragon, but they are apparently vagabonds. Boomtown would be a great place to give them to settle down.
Steel Canyon would look great with a facelift, but it's also fine as is, too. There are plenty of places no one ever goes, unless sent there for some particular mission/TF, at which point everyone groans.
-Shadow Shard
-Perez
-Boomtown
-PvP zones
-Eden
-Terra Volta
Any of these I'd be happy to see get a makeover, and get some use out of. Would like to see Shadow Shard most of all, though. It's visually intriguing, with (SSA excluded) unique foes, but the travel time is insanely bad. The missions there (yeah, there are missions) are pointless and my one attempt at playing there, I gave up after finishing out 4 or 5 contacts (I think. It's been awhile). There is a LOT of stuff there that can be remade, without throwing all of it out.
Would love to see more co-op zones, with hero and villain specific missions - and, as has been suggested, co-op missions with differing agendas.
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Co-op zones is OK. Co-op content, we have more than enough. Instead of one "zone arc" have two - heroic and villainous, with possible "betrayal" transitions for rogues/vigilantes.
More zone events. Add them to old zones too. Ideally zone events should replace street sweeping, which also means taking out all the old "hunt X of Y" missions, especially blueside.
Blueside:
Shadow shard, 'nuff said (and now I want to make an alt named Nuff, heh)
Redside:
Not a single zone, but a number of subzones.
- Villa Montrose, Villa Requin, St Martial casino area - make then nice(r). Sunny weather. Colorful, decorated. Trash out of sight. Reason: this is where the rich and powerful live, will draw powerful contrast to the slums.
- Aeon City - this is supposed to be a futuristic city designed by a mad scientist. So make it look like one. Lots of glass and holograms/glows, as opposed to the bare metal and smog of Grandville. Metal bits are fine, but make them bright/shiny.
- Nerva - add a small Arachnos base on Primeva, move north Black Helicopter there. Reason: Arachnos Flyer in Longbow base doesn't make sense.
- Crucible - change theme from, whatever it currently is supposed to be, to a "villain lounge". An exclusive place where the big and bad can enjoy their crime paying. Some Arachnos tech bits, rich furniture, a gambling area, under-dressed waiters (one of whom would be the new V merit vendor), a shooting gallery with the hero mannequins from Icon.
I do not suffer from altitis, I enjoy every character of it.
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I proposed making them parallel, rather than shared, because I'm concerned about potential player frustration at seeing other PCs working against their goals without being able to affect them. Current co-op zones don't have that because we've got shared goals. I don't know that it would take up that much in the way of resources, necessarily; would it really be that much more intensive than having two instances of a highly populated zone? Virtue has had two instances of DA practically since the update went live.|
Originally Posted by Lycantropus
However, what I was thinking was that it wouldn't be a direct PvP zone. It would still be a co-op zone. Heck, let the missions in them count as 'tip' missions, so if a villain wants to run with heroes, they could, but it could potentially 'tarnish' their reputation unless they made sure to cause a lot of havok beforehand (made sure they did all their villain tips for the day) or simply set to where heroes and villans can't work together, even though they can't fight either (making being a Rogue or Vigilante super beneficial for zones like these).
Also, I imagine creating two seperate Boomtowns would take up a lot of resources as well. |
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Originally Posted by Major Deej
Take out Babbage GM and put in huge 5th Column Mech Robot GM.
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Say that all this time, the Clocks have been scavenging material and rebuilding a number of ruined underground bases in the area Babbage now patrols. Now that it's complete, they've begun expanding it into an aboveground Clockwork Palace, and Babbage guards it. The Column tests its defenses occasionally, hoping to put a stop to the Clocks' scavenging of their equipment.
Maybe even have a Clockwork Emissary contact that reflects the King's divided mind. He hates heroes, but Penny is a hero now. How is he reconciling that? His Emissary ends up giving missions to both sides, grudgingly cooperating with heroes to fend off the Column, but working with villains to keep the reconstruction from encroaching on his territory.
The Way of the Corruptor (Arc ID 49834): Hey villains! Do something for yourself for a change--like twisting the elements to your will. All that's standing in your way are a few secret societies...and Champions of the four elements.
Another idea vis a vis a revamped Boomtown and the 5th Column; maybe they've made a permanent portal to Axis America through which they're drawing reinforcements?
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I could only see doing that if the prize for beating it is a volcano base lot for your supergroup.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Striga could easily be turned into a co-op zone too.
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/this. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I couldn't disagree more. Terra Volta is, to me, one of the coolest zones in the game exactly BECAUSE of its size. Unlike Boomtown, it actually has distinct parts to it, it has varied settings and it has interesting geography. This is pretty much the only place left in the city that actually looks BIG. It's a square mile of industrial buildings. It's pretty much as big as Sharkhead Island, and that zone's "industrial centre" is tiny by comparison. I DESPISE the CoV model of cramming a zillion small things all into the same zone because it makes everything feel so puny. Terra Volta is the complete opposite. Visiting it really was the first time I got a feel for the scale of Paragon City.
<snip> Terra Volta is awesome. If we want to do something with it, let's do something with it. But let's not just throw it away, please. |
OK, Terra Volta's a hazard zone, with hazard zone size spawns (I hesitate to call it a "trial zone," since the zone itself is not part and parcel OF the trial, just a setting - and really, the term's been meaningless for years.)
So give us stuff to do IN the zone besides the trial and grabbing explore badges (and one kill mission for numina I try to snag - because even my squishies can flatten grey sky raiders, and it amuses me to see the "wimpy" defender knock a bunch down in one shot.)
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The reason I picked Eden is because it's one home of the Devouring Earth who appear both sides and are the main threat to Praetoria's existence.|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
you know, i was going to go for the shadow shard, which i suppose is cheating anyhow, but yeah, eden could have a lot more going on. maybe crey's folley too. not much there.
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Lately the way to get something out there seems to be how often can it be used and/or how little work NEEDS to be done to make it. Obviously a triple-threat like the Devouring Earth who attack Paragon, Praetoria and the Etoile Isles would be ripe given they're in the 30-40 range. We already have some DE caves in both worlds; the Eden trial has that massive cave, the UG trial has the DE corrupted tunnels and the DE in Praetoria appear visually similar to the Primal ones due to their appearances in Maria Jenkins' arc. So there could be a multitude of shared resources with minimal differences like special boss characters showing up in Praetoria or mobs containing 'advanced' DE much like how the redside Circle of Thorns mobs contain Succubi and bluside ones don't.
If it can't be co-op then make it work for all sides involved.
Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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That's irony, right? Because the flip side is that any blue zone requires an equivalent red zone revamp and we can see how frequently that's happened...
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
When a red side zone gets a revamp, they also need to do a blue side one at the same time.
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So far, I'm only coming up with the Hollows as a blue side only revamp - what were the others?
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Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
That's irony, right? Because the flip side is that any blue zone requires an equivalent red zone revamp and we can see how frequently that's happened...
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Faultline|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
So far, I'm only coming up with the Hollows as a blue side only revamp - what were the others?
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I'm excluding CO-OP changes and Atlas/Mercy are analogous enough for purposes of this particular train of thought.
The Shadow Shard.
Multiple expansive and visually impressive zones with almost no content whatsoever in them. (And in desperate need of a revamped travel system.)
All the zone building has been done for years, they just need to PUT something there.
Ideally I don't think they should be "Co-Op" exactly, but rather competitive PvE storyarcs. Heroes are there to save the day, villains are their for their own agenda which is not just tagging along with the heroes because "WAAAAAHHH! *I* wanna be the one who destroys the world!" or some such nonsense.
There can be Co-Op components though, in the same way that Dark Astoria/Cimerora are a co-op zones that also have side specific content. Shadow Shard 2.0 should just be mostly side specific content, with a few co-op options.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Only if ulta optimization is a requirement for ultra mode. Neo Atlas Park takes about 3 times as long to load as a normal mode zone does.
Though if they're fine with shelves setting older video cards on fire I'm probably out of luck (and have gotten really good at playing zoomed in and looking straight down while navigating with just the map and tab targeting).