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I did, I quite like my staff/ninjitsu stalker |
Originally Posted by dougnukem
Just reroll as a Stalker......
>.> |
And its been the 2nd stalker i've ever rolled. Yeah I haven't been too impressed with the new sets for tankers lately. That being said, there all Smashing/Lethal damage, something I shy away from on tankers, I still haven't warmed up to Super Strength.
I too found Street Justice Meh, my Electric/Titan Weapon tanker is fun, but so far, I've yet to roll another titan weapon anything. I still don't know about staff melee, I was thinking of a Fire/Staff, but I think i'll wait for the time being.
Combat Kangaroos, Justice Server. First 50's
Jirra Roo Plant/Storm/Stone/Musculature Controller
Combat Kangaroo Rifle/Energy/Mace/Spiritual Blaster
Kung Fu Kangaroo Martial Arts/Reflexes/Body/Spiritual Scrapper
Tribal Arc Shield/Elec/Mu/Spiritual Tanker
I never said anything is wrong with the powersets themselves. They're all fantastic. On brutes, scrappers, and stalkers. There's plenty of sets that are brilliant on tankers. They may not be my archetype of choice (I prefer brutes since they're like tankers without training wheels) but they aren't bad.
That being said, Tankers DO need improvement. It's hard to add much to them, though. Remember how they were in the first issues?
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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Here's the first problem. That chain is *horrible*. Guarded Spin is utter crap for damage *Because it's a defense power!* And EotS is even worse unless you're surrounded, because the animation is so insanely long.|
Originally Posted by RadDidIt
I'm unsure what you mean? I slotted for recharge without purples and followed this chain:
Eye of the Storm -> Guarded -> Sky Splitter -> Guarded -> Depending on situation - Sky Splitter again or EotS. |
Try running using actual *good* attacks like Mercurial, Serpent's, Innocuous, instead of spamming the worst DPA power in the set every second hit. Also, you want to build up three levels of Perfection before blowing your finisher, so that you can actually leverage the Form benefits.
If you need to have the +Def from GS to stay alive, then try MB/GS/SR/SS. Or MB/GS/IS/EotS for AoE.
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Originally Posted by LineNoise
Here's the first problem. That chain is *horrible*. Guarded Spin is utter crap for damage *Because it's a defense power!* And EotS is even worse unless you're surrounded, because the animation is so insanely long.
Try running using actual *good* attacks like Mercurial, Serpent's, Innocuous, instead of spamming the worst DPA power in the set every second hit. Also, you want to build up three levels of Perfection before blowing your finisher, so that you can actually leverage the Form benefits. If you need to have the +Def from GS to stay alive, then try MB/GS/SR/SS. Or MB/GS/IS/EotS for AoE. |
I don't recall saying this was about ST DPS. I try to keep my tank saturated at all times.
I can't repeat this enough:This isn't about DPS. I actually believe there is something wrong with the damage scaling of Staff on Tanks.
Edit - sigh...
Open with EotS; proc FF +recharge. Hit Guarded to get a second level of Body up. Hit Sky Splitter, using the little +damage I've created. Activate Guarded again unless EotS is up; if it is, hit EotS, if not wait until it is and hit EotS or Sky Splitter.
Shrug. I mean, I guess putting IS in where Sky Splitter is would be fine. Not really what I'm concerned about.
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Um dont u mean brutes are like tanks WITH training wheels? I am still waiting to see the OPs build for this build.
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Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
(I prefer brutes since they're like tankers without training wheels)
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Originally Posted by RadDidIt
I have 165% global after Hasten.
By the way, Staff on Brutes is excellent. Really fun, decent damage, good utility. On Tanks its so bad I'm going to delete this toon. At 50. I've never done that before. |
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Toons been stripped and sidelined. Couldnt put it up now if I wanted. 165% global recharge, no purples, nothing unusual or weird.
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Originally Posted by LSK
Um dont u mean brutes are like tanks WITH training wheels? I am still waiting to see the OPs build for this build.
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Honestly, if you really believe that there's a numerical problem with the powerset on Tankers (on the order of a misplaced decimal or some such, as you've suggested) then the onus is on you to back up that claim with something more than subjective impressions.
If you're unwilling or unable to do that, then pass it off to someone who is or let the matter drop. As for this not being about damage, you did delete the character because you felt the damage was too low, so it would seem that this is indeed about damage. If you really feel this is an issue you want to bring to the attention of the community and/or the Devs, well... prove it.
It's all well and good to say that you think something is off, but that's nothing more than your impression unless you can perform some real testing. It's not easy to do the testing, of course, but that's why those who are known for performing reliable testing are given more credence as a general rule. If Arcanaville posts something, I can be reasonably sure she's tested it exhaustively.
I'm reasonably sure you haven't.
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server
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So basically you did not use mids for your build gotcha.
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Originally Posted by RadDidIt
Toons been stripped and sidelined. Couldnt put it up now if I wanted. 165% global recharge, no purples, nothing unusual or weird.
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Someone who doesn't want a monster headed character.|
Originally Posted by MisterD
Look on teh bright side..at least your brute is good! Who wants a tank anyway!
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And baby, when you're playing a brute, you're ALWAYS using a monster head. Even when you're not.
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No, I would compare Tankers as they are currently as being training wheels for Brutes.|
Originally Posted by LSK
Um dont u mean brutes are like tanks WITH training wheels? I am still waiting to see the OPs build for this build.
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Training wheels give a child something they lack (balance) at the cost of agility and maneuvering the bicycle. When the child learns how to balance on their own, the training wheels come off and the child gains much more agility and freedom to turn.
Tankers give new players survivability at the cost of damage. When they learn how to build well and get the survivability on their own, they can graduate to a Brute and gain much more damage.
.
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Nope, I did. Just didn't save it, savvy?
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Originally Posted by LSK
So basically you did not use mids for your build gotcha.
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Originally Posted by Justaris
I'm reasonably sure you haven't.
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Third times the charm: spread sheet being worked on.
Some sidebar feedback here:
My dark/staff/energy tank hit 50 last night and I took him through the alpha unlock arc, which I kind of use to compare the base performance of my 50s pre-incarnation.
My 2 cents:
While I'm not the most hardcore tank player, I do have several other 50 tanks (stone/ss, ice/ss, inv/tw, elec/ice, fire/fire and a 42 wp/ice I work on from time to time). Based on my previous tank experience, and playing a staff stalker & brute, it was pretty much exactly what I expected.
...especially considering what it gives you in the way of end management.
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
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Originally Posted by Lobster
Some sidebar feedback here:
My dark/staff/energy tank hit 50 last night and I took him through the alpha unlock arc, which I kind of use to compare the base performance of my 50s pre-incarnation. My 2 cents: While I'm not the most hardcore tank player, I do have several other 50 tanks (stone/ss, ice/ss, inv/tw, elec/ice, fire/fire and a 42 wp/ice I work on from time to time). Based on my previous tank experience, and playing a staff stalker & brute, it was pretty much exactly what I expected. ...especially considering what it gives you in the way of end management. |
Thanks for your feedback! Good to have another 50.
Was talking in channel with the member doing spread sheets, and this came up:
" ...Ice averages to 69.95 DPA, Staff 65.1. Every other set I have looked at so far is closer to 80."
CAN'T be right! Not because I doubt his math, but because Staff can't be /that/ bad.
Edit - So, I was wrong. Tank Staff is WAI. However.... ^ look at that.
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Why do you even bother posting on the tank forum when all you do is complain about the Tank, and then you say you do not like to play brutes and yet you all ways compare the two. Stop trying to scare new players away from tanks just because you do not like how much damage they do.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
No, I would compare Tankers as they are currently as being training wheels for Brutes.
Training wheels give a child something they lack (balance) at the cost of agility and maneuvering the bicycle. When the child learns how to balance on their own, the training wheels come off and the child gains much more agility and freedom to turn. Tankers give new players survivability at the cost of damage. When they learn how to build well and get the survivability on their own, they can graduate to a Brute and gain much more damage. . |
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Exactly this.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
No, I would compare Tankers as they are currently as being training wheels for Brutes.
Training wheels give a child something they lack (balance) at the cost of agility and maneuvering the bicycle. When the child learns how to balance on their own, the training wheels come off and the child gains much more agility and freedom to turn. Tankers give new players survivability at the cost of damage. When they learn how to build well and get the survivability on their own, they can graduate to a Brute and gain much more damage. . |
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Originally Posted by LSK
Why do you even bother posting on the tank forum when all you do is complain about the Tank, and then you say you do not like to play brutes and yet you all ways compare the two. Stop trying to scare new players away from tanks just because you do not like how much damage they do.
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http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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I have my doubts about that. Where are these spreadsheets and what is his/her methodology?
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Originally Posted by RadDidIt
Was talking in channel with the member doing spread sheets, and this came up:
" ...Ice averages to 69.95 DPA, Staff 65.1. Every other set I have looked at so far is closer to 80." CAN'T be right! Not because I doubt his math, but because Staff can't be /that/ bad. |
I really like it better when we start with numbers and then draw conclusions. Somehow doing it the other way around never seems to work out.
I'm also interested to see these spreadsheets and an explanation of the testing methods used to obtain the numbers therein.
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server
Code:
All numbers taken from http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...Staff_FightingDam Act DPA Mercurial Blow 37.37 1 37.37 Precise Strike 58.72 1.13 51.96 Guarded Spin 51.55 1.83 28.17 Eye of the Storm 54.72 2.57 21.29 Serpents Reach 80.08 1.77 45.24 Innoc Strikes 73.85 2.17 34.03 Sky Splitter 122.78 2.83 43.39 avg DPA 37.35 (sum of all dpa/7 attack powers)
All numbers un-enhanced
Go forth, people with a higher than grade 9 level of math understanding (obviously I'm not said spreadsheet guy).
For comparison
Frozen Fists 37.37 1.33 28.1
Ice Sword 58.72 1.33 44.15
Frost 72.06 2.27 31.74
Freezing Touch 74.76 1 74.76
Greater Ice Sword 87.2 2.33 37.42
Frozen Aura 63.17 2.1 30.08
avg DPA 41.04 (sum/6)
I've never really found DPA important to my enjoyment of a set. I just like seeing big numbers, which is why I didn't like staff fighting (and didn't buy it): Most of the damage is DoT. I don't like dual blades, beam rifle, or dual pistols for the same reason. I think that can skew the perceptions of anyone watching the orange numbers fly. It's also why I still love energy melee - I don't care how long the animation is, as long as the power hits like a truck when it's done. It's also why stone melee is my favorite set - short animations AND hits like a truck. Low DPS potential because of recharge times be damned.
Outside the vacuum, this isn't particularly fair to SF since it's AoE blows Ice's away - but for taking down a boss in a satisfying amount of time the AoE means nothing, so if that's the complaint here's the data.
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
The average you have calculated is not a meaningful one to the question of how long it would take to take down a boss or anything else. An average across all the powers of the powerset is meaningful only in that you are putting all the powers of the set to use. But most people use a particular chain of attacks, and that is what you must consider the average damage of.
Also, someone trying to pump out damage is likely to be using one of the forms and keeping it up by avoiding finishers, so you would need to up the damage being considered for staff.
Under construction
Just reroll as a Stalker......
>.>
Don't I know you???