Suggestion: Revamp T9VIP

And the more they build up "behind the wall" the more impossible it is for new players to EVER GET THEM!!! Do you seriously want to deny some players access to things just because they are new players? How many things do you need to build up behind that wall before there's just so much a new player takes one look and give up hope of bothering? No one wants to start out by paying hundred of dollars to gain access to what ends up costs another hundreds of dollars.

No. I said "out of style" not out of style. Huge difference there. In case you still got catch the difference, I mean to say then by the time Celestial Armor comes around again, the majority of people who wanted it bad enough to pay out the nose to get access to it will have done so the last time, and only those who by chance are now at T9 AND actually want it will get it. That's not a large enough incentive for Paragon Studios to even bring it back as a T9 item, unless it's soon.

And from the point of view of those veteran T9ers, what will they do when their options are Celestial Armor and Fire & Ice... again? Nothing. They already bought those. Something ELSE needs to be there... but they still can make some money on the old "out of style" (there it is again) sets by offering them to the general public. Why the general public instead of keeping them gated behind VIP? Because more people will by them. Sure, gating them behind a subscription fee will be incentive enough for some to buy that subscription (for a month) just to then also buy the costume bits, but how many more will buy the costume bits if everyone can? Almost certainly enough to make up for any lost revenue from the premium players who didn't sub that one month.

No they aren't. Not even enough to compare for discussion sake. They are, in fact, the exact opposite of gated incentives.

Shuuuuh! Don't talk about that! They'll hear...

What are you on about?

New players can get them whenever they want.


Oh wait, right, I forgot when you say "NEVER GETTING THEM" you mean "HAVING TO PAY FOR THEM".

My bad! =P


Well, we'll see how they handle it. I'm usually way off on the hardcore fringe of their eventual position on these kinds of things, but given the necessity of keeping the people who did clear all the necessary hurdles happy I don't see a big liberalization of access on the horizon.

Tier 9 is not a static population, it will be changing over time.
Presumably new members will have the option of spending tokens on current sets or back catalog bundles.

But, we'll see.

They'll likely wind up somewhere far more liberal than my ideal, while still causing squeals of anguish from the entitlement brigade for whom every bridge is a bridge too far.


Ah no, money is definitely a gate.
no money, no booster.
Super boosters are the evolutionary predecessor of the entire market apparatus.

Sorry if I was unclear. It seems you do get the idea, but for whatever reason think things don't age or lose value over time, or at the very least thing for some reason these concepts don't apply to game content in a virtual wold, or maybe just to the T9 VIP costume pieces in general. At the very least, I can be certain we differ in opinion on the value of such things. Let's leave it at that.

How they'll handle it will be almost exactly as I have predicted. My secret here is that there have already been hints as such on the boards, include a statement or two on the subject when the T9VIP rewards were introduced (I'd have to look up the exact posts to quote them, I will if you like but at the moment I'll assume the references to such already in this thread will suffice). It's possible they'll flip and do something else, but based on how successful the current micro-transactions are I doubt adding content they created a year or more ago (from the POV of a year or so from now) will be anything but good for the company. The players who "worked so hard/paid so much" to get access first can still feel special for having done so, and if it doesn't they can still try and feel special by picking up whatever IS at the T9 that only T9 VIPs can get. And if they still can't feel special, then there is no help for them.

I predict the cost will be substantially higher than you expect, whether in $$$, time invested, or both.
Whatever mechanism they settle on needs to serve two masters.

I'm not talking about cherry picking your rewards, please read. I am suggesting to open up the VIP rewards to all VIPs. Reward tree progression will remain as is, i never said anything regarding this.

People will make toons based on a concept, if the look of a toon is gated behind several gates, and even will be discontinued before people can get there, they will not make those toons, or even plan them.

I have a great concept of a toon using the Fire & Ice costumes, but i know i will not get to T9 before they are gone, so i am not even reserving a name, planning a build or making the toon, hoping that in the next few years i can finally make it as i wanted to make it from the start.

And if you say i can, just cough up enough cash to fill the last 2 Tiers, if you give me the cash to do so, or if you give me a well paying job so i can do that, i might.. but i have other things to worry about instead of throwing hundreds of dollars at a game in one payment.

Well, he is posting nothing but nonsense and his own feeling of entitlement.
I'm not losing an argument, because the person who thinks, and who you think is winning, never gave a solid argument as to why he doesn't like my idea, and only claims to not see my reasoning.

Trying to play internet ghetto gangmember doesn't earn respect.

I placed a few more people on ignore for obvious reasons, since they feel as if the world has to revolve around them, and instead of being respectful and actually make a solid argument, they just do what ever they can to try and brake this thread.

Raven makes a few solid points as to why PS should look at changing the current VIP rewards. VIPs who have the VIP rewards now will later complain if the current VIP rewards go back in the VIP tree, because it is nothing new they have.

Not many will start a new game, pay $500 just to get some VIP rewards, this is not enticing people to stay long.
Better would be to open it up to all VIPs. Buying a month worth of VIP time will make people see what they get as a VIP, opposed to unlocking their rewards buying points. This will also entice people more to stay subbed, and as i stated before: The longevity of a game is based on it's subscribers, not the amount of cash thrown at the game because people want some rewards. The 1st is a steady flow of income, the latter is a variable amount.

Okay, two things here. One: Please don't ever yell using my voice. It seriously creeps me out. If you want to yell (you know, post thing is a large, bold face type), use your own words.

Two: You have most definitely failed. I disagree with you, dude and always have. My arguments have been in favor of the current system the entire time. If you can't tell the difference between an argument in favor or opposed to your own, you might want to reconsider your own position on this. My own suspicion is that you just want something you lack the means to have and instead of doing the work necessary to get it you think you can complain your way to it. That kind of thinking may get you a free meal at Denny's once in awhile but it's not going to work here.

In this case, the two masters are the playerbase as a whole, and whoever gets paid. And when it comes down to it, it's the one who gets paid who's more important (not in a friendly sense, but in a bottom line sense).

I don't expect the full set of Celestial Armor (for example) to cost the same as a standard costume pack (for example), in fact I expect it to cost quite a bit more (I'm guestimating 1200 points, or 3x the cost of the current costume bundles). Sure, you could buy 1200 points and more for just $15, a third what that three reward tokens cost, but then again, each reward token comes with a free months VIP subscription, or a free 1320 points (buyer's choice).

There is.. it's called the Reward Tree.

Dropping over $500 just to get the VIP stuff as a new player and new VIP.. You really think that a lot of people can do that?

T9VIP: for VIPs only.. yet, it discriminates between VIPs.

People are more likely to stay subbed if they can actually get the VIP stuff if it is not locked in behind a time or significant amount of money paid upfront.

You're proposing that instead of having to take a reward from their current level, people can choose a reward from the top level instead. How is that not cherry-picking?

Tier nine is not 'the VIP rewards'. Tier nine of the reward tree is tier nine of the reward tree. VIPs get access to additional goodies at that level, once they have reached tier nine of the tree. Allowing people to take shinies from higher levels is cherry-picking, and it undermines the structured reward system.

Indeed, VIP Rewards it are not the Tier 9 Repeatable rewards. And actually, currently, VIPs who have filled T8, can skip the T9 Repeatable rewards.
My suggestion is just to open up the VIP rewards to ALL VIPs, not open up the whole reward tree.
If this is cherry picking your reward, then so is the current system, since i can pick my reward in my Tier and leave some rewards for later, and even skip the T9 rewards in general.
VIP rewards should be for all VIPs.

There's a difference between picking from your current tier and skipping all the way to the end to grab the best, shiniest goodies. Choosing from your current tier is just picking between alternatives you have earned access to. Choosing from the very tippy-top of the tree, that you do not have access to, is definitely missing the point of having the entire tiered system.

I assume (and you know what they say about that) that if the devs wanted you just pick only the ones you want, they'd have just made one big sheet that you could fill in at will.

Just FYI, it's less than $500.

You need 34 tokens to start slotting in T9VIP. You need 37 tokens to fully slot out a T9 costume set.

Everyone starts with a token. A VIP will have one more token by the end of their month, so that's two tokens. We COULD value their month at the highest possible dollar value, $20 for the game card (which are ridiculously hard to find now) - more likely $15 for a standard retail month.

Buying points the first time gets you one token, that's three total. Buying the $100 bundle gets you 8 tokens, for 11. Buy the $100 bundle three more times for 24 more tokens, that brings you up to 35 tokens. Buy the $15 bundle twice for two more tokens and a goodly portion toward another token.

This gets you to T9 and three tokens socketed in for a full T9VIP costume set.

$15 VIP month
$100 bundle x4
$15 bundle x2
= $445, not "over $500". A considerable savings. Still a very large amount to spend in one sitting, but MUCH lower than your exaggeration. Minus $30 if all you're doing is getting to T9 (technically, you will be T9 with a leftover token).

And this is only true for a brand new player, because players with old accounts will be higher up the reward tree.

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

Dammit! The thread was dead for two whole days!

I'm becoming convinced you don't properly understand the current system or how it works. I'm already convinced you just want the costume pieces without investing the resources asked of you.

As it is, your wish will almost certainly be granted, just not today, and then only for items which have been retired from the T9VIP rewards. Be patient.

Partially you are right, however, you did not count the 6 tokens to slot the VIP rewards.
1200PP for 1 token, is 8 Tokens for 9600PP=$100
40 Tokens to fully slot everything, skipping the T9 Repeatable awards.
40/8=5
Meaning:
1 Token for VIP = $ 15,-
5 x $100 = $500,-
Total, with 3 tokens left = $515,-

Granted, this is from Start to finish on a fully new account.

I hear you say: "You overpaid for 3 Tokens."
Ok, let us see some other options.

1 Token for VIP = $ 15,-
4 x $100 for 32 tokens = $400,-
1 x $50 for 3.8* Tokens = $ 50,-
2 x $15,- for 2.2** token = $ 30,-
*0.8 + **0.2 = 1 Token = $ 0,-
Total, with 0 Tokens left = $495,-

And even that is close to $500, - total for a totally new account, and yes, i understand that older accounts are closer to filling T9VIP, and thus spend less money, however that is still not my point.
My point is that the VIP system discriminates between the VIP player base.
And i believe that PS will make more money off transactions if they would allow all VIPs to pick the VIP rewards.

If people are halted in their Reward Tree progress, they are more likely to spend a few bucks extra here and there to either pick the VIP rewards or progress further in their Reward Tree because they picked a VIP reward a few times, than they are spending $200-$500 on a game they just started playing, not knowing if they will stay yes or no.
It is far more plausible that people will stay subbed longer if this change is made, and would increase the monthly income for PS.

EDIT: I did not count the Token at the end of the month, since if the player does not stay subbed, he is not able to slot the T9VIP reward with that token.
Also, the token which is granted for buying points the 1st time is counted in, but not noted.

No, it doesn't. Everyone has the potential and over time will earn the same rewards. The system doesn't discriminate who gets what (with one exception.) It's not creating some class system where there are VIPS who are better than others.

What it has created are whiners who moan that they are not T9 and won't get the specific T9 reward they want - at this time. Celestial Armor won't be going away permanently it most likely will be cycled back in to the T9 Reward Tree at some time and perhaps what some people may need to learn is patience

So, yes, there is an exception: who will get what rewards and at what time.

Not saying you won't get them ever - just not at this time. The reward tree is individual for each player and their path on it, so to say it is discriminating between two players is poppycock.

On the contrary, I accounted for three tokens into T9VIP.

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

If you notice this discrimination argument is the exact same one the whiners made pre-Freedom about the old Vet Reward system, and they kept asking for the ability to pay for the vet rewards up front so they could get all the rewards they wanted immediately rather than sub for years.

Now the devs have given them exactly what they asked for and they are still whining. And the really funny part is some of the people complaining in this thread about this system were among the very ones begging for it pre-Freedom.

Multimedia Genius Submission

Multimedia Genius Submission

I think you misunderstood what was being said. The argument isn't that they would "only" subscribe for a month after buying the necessary reward tokens to get the current Tier 9 rewards, the argument is that they aren't forced to subscribe for more than a month to get the Celestial, and Fire and Ice sets. Then whenever a new Tier 9 reward gets released (looks like it will be every 4 months) they can sub again for a month to unlock it.