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And a subscription. If I'm reading this right you have to a VIP as well.|
Originally Posted by SmegHead
Then we earned it with cash...
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So while I don't care if they loosen the restrictions on those rotating tier 9 costume rewards I don't object to keeping them for VIP's. If the devs let the Prems get everything VIP's get without subbing they'll have no incentive to subscribe.
Alternate idea:
Whenever they come up with a new tier9 VIP reward, move the previous one down a tier. So, when Mecha comes out, move elemental down to make it a tier 8 VIP, and celestial down to tier 7 VIP. That way, the veterans get their unique costumes to themselves for a little while, and the rest gradually becomes more and more accessible. Side benefit--no more missing out on old tier 9 items that get swapped out into the vault.
Loving these arguments, and almost everyone makes a valid case for objecting my suggestion and approving it.
Now look at this.
I see a few people stating that they paid $100-$300 and even more just to get up the reward tree to get these costumes. They call my proposal a slap in their face because others would get these items cheaper and easier while they were able/had to devote their resources o get that high up the Reward Tree to get them. Some of them even say that they don't mind if down the road these items come in the store, as PS is currently hinting at.
Well.. my issue with this statement/argument....
If people can buy these in the store for 400-800PP, how does your argument hold up?
Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
Crab Spider Nephila on Titan Tracker
Weekly events on Guardian: W.A.V.E. & FNFN
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I don't know about the other points of view but my argument holds up fine. The Tier 9 VIP rewards are for VIP's. They shouldn't be sold in the store unless they are still restricted to VIP players.|
Originally Posted by Dark Energon
Loving these arguments, and almost everyone makes a valid case for objecting my suggestion and approving it.
Now look at this. I see a few people stating that they paid $100-$300 and even more just to get up the reward tree to get these costumes. They call my proposal a slap in their face because others would get these items cheaper and easier while they were able/had to devote their resources o get that high up the Reward Tree to get them. Some of them even say that they don't mind if down the road these items come in the store, as PS is currently hinting at. Well.. my issue with this statement/argument.... If people can buy these in the store for 400-800PP, how does your argument hold up? |
If a Prem wants them he can sub for a month and get them, if he refuses to sub tough turnips he gets to do without.
This isn't an issue of spending money. Everyone spends money to get Paragon Rewards, either by subbing, paying cash up front, or a combination of the two. The issue is about the rewards being restricted to people with active subscriptions at the time of unlocking the Tier 9 VIP rewards, and if VIP's should be allowed to get them earlier than Tier 9.
I'd also like to point out that ANYONE who is a Premium account can get all of T9 filled out, be it over time at or in one go spending all the cash to unlock everything. However the TP VIP Tier is for ONLY PAYING CUSTOMERS. It's an intensive to keep paying, to stay on longer then it takes to unlock a damn row of little orbs. It's there way of saying 'Hey thanks for giving us your cash M'kay? You enjoy these little tidbits of stuff'.
It's about the loyalty of staying on as a paying member of the community. Not about how much you've spent, but how much your willing to spend.
I know it sucks some people won't be able to get what they want be for it cycles out but they have said it will come back so just have faith in that. Hell, I would have been two months short on getting all the celestial pieces if i hadn't have spent all my birthday and christmas money on paragon points and earned a few extra tokens. And I've been playing for four years!
Anything not nailed down is mine, anything i can pry loose wasn't nailed down good enough.
Criticism is always better when it's constrictive, and not sarcastic ~ Obsidius
Not signing.
Why? Well to be honest why should it matter? Sure the pieces are cool and interesting looking but they are JUST COSTUME PIECES. Big deal, they make these things ALL the time. The only diff between T9VIP Costumes and the others is that they are not EASILY accessible to the free/premium players. That is IT. I would in all honesty rather see the Devs spend more time fixing bugs and making things work right then fixing the odd little wants of VIP players who can't hit T9VIP right off the bat.
Though IMO What if they just made them accessible at tier 4 instead of tier 9? That way you have to have paid SOME to get there, but not an arm and a leg? Just a thought.
Ruthia Dascht >Co-Founder of Garden of Thorns VG on Guardian. Lvl 50 Energy/Cold Corr
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This argument could go both ways as to why not and why yes.|
Originally Posted by Ruthia
Why? Well to be honest why should it matter? Sure the pieces are cool and interesting looking but they are JUST COSTUME PIECES. Big deal, they make these things ALL the time.
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Originally Posted by Ruthia
Though IMO What if they just made them accessible at tier 4 instead of tier 9? That way you have to have paid SOME to get there, but not an arm and a leg? Just a thought.
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With all honesty, i was kinda thinking about this too when i noticed that most people stated that they didn't want just ANY VIP pick the VIP rewards.
Unlocking T-VIP when you filled T4 is a nice compromise, and easy coding, just replace the T8 with T4. Also, T4 is half way up the Reward Tree, meaning they did show some dedication to the game in the form of buying points to get there, or in playing time.
Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
Crab Spider Nephila on Titan Tracker
Weekly events on Guardian: W.A.V.E. & FNFN
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I think you're confusing me with someone else. My idea was to keep things as they are. The only difference of opinion I think I have with you is why.|
Originally Posted by SmegHead
What are you talking about when you say "outside the current tiers"? I was talking about your idea. And other stuff you said
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| Oh, and its a price drop and nothing more you say? Me, I had to pay about $70 to unlock tier 9. That is a $55 price cut. A friend paid about $200 just to access one set of celestial armor. That is a $185 price drop. Someone new just has to sub to get the same thing? That's pretty significant price cut for us isn't it? |
To some, it would seem this would include yourself, this much of a price drop is just horribly wrong. To others, such as myself, this is just a price drop. Paid for the game 8 years ago? it cost X. Pay for the game now? still costs X but now includes the option to Celestial Armor outta the box. So based on your argument, it is just a price drop, and only someone who feels things should never get less expensive over time would be opposed to it.
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| From the amount of people I see in game with celestial that are only 1, 2 and 3 year vets I think it seems rather successful. And other stuff you said. |
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T4 isn't halfway up the rewards tree. You need 34 tokens to fill out T8, so your 35th token can be spent on T9. Half of that is 17, which puts you halfway into T6. So unlocking it at T5/13 tokens (just under halfway) or T6/20 tokens (just over halfway) would be better than T4/8 tokens. (Keeping in mind that everyone gets 1 token automagically, so the required number of tokens to purchase/earn is one less.)
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
Unlocking T-VIP when you filled T4 is a nice compromise, and easy coding, just replace the T8 with T4. Also, T4 is half way up the Reward Tree, meaning they did show some dedication to the game in the form of buying points to get there, or in playing time.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Excellent idea. Already implemented in an ever better way. All the T9VIP rewards will (eventually/potentially) be available directly via the market using points rather than tokens.|
Originally Posted by Thrillseeker
Alternate proposal:
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I have no real proof of this, but it was mentioned as possibilities on the threads like this one that ran rampant when f2p launched and we got T9VIP rewards first came into view. I have no idea when anything like this will come to be, but I'm expecting it.
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That's pretty much what I'm expecting to happen. You know, after they've been in the T9VIP rotation for about a year or so. So all of us who've paid enough to get them before other people who didn't pay enough so can't get them have paid enough and got them, then everyone who didn't pay enough can pay a little and get them, and those who paid enough and didn't can then also get them for a little.|
Originally Posted by Dark Energon
If people can buy these in the store for 400-800PP, how does your argument hold up?
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Seems fair to me.
Keep in mind that it takes three reward tokens to get the full Celestial set, which translates roughly into $25-45 (depending on the bulk deal you get for points, or your monthly sub cost -- barring crazy things like clearance time cards or whatever). I'd be pretty cheesed if they took such a substantial drop in price as to be released at 400pp (that is only $5!), so I wouldn't want to see them for less than, say, 1200-1600pp on the PMarket ($15-20).
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Keep in mind that it takes three reward tokens to get the full Celestial set, which translates roughly into $25-45 (depending on the bulk deal you get for points, or your monthly sub cost -- barring crazy things like clearance time cards or whatever). I'd be pretty cheesed if they took such a substantial drop in price as to be released at 400pp (that is only $5!), so I wouldn't want to see them for less than, say, 1200-1600pp on the PMarket ($15-20).
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Except the T9's would get to play with the shineys for like a year before everyone else could buy them. That price point is redic for a costume set for points. 800 would be sufficient.
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Yeah not seeing the fairness in this at all unless the costume pieces will only be purchaseable by VIP's once they go into the store. The only reason they are VIP restricted to begin with is because they are an incentive to subscribe, even if it's only for a month. Putting them in the store for anyone to purchase defeats the purpose of them being VIP rewards.
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Originally Posted by DustRaven
That's pretty much what I'm expecting to happen. You know, after they've been in the T9VIP rotation for about a year or so. So all of us who've paid enough to get them before other people who didn't pay enough so can't get them have paid enough and got them, then everyone who didn't pay enough can pay a little and get them, and those who paid enough and didn't can then also get them for a little.
Seems fair to me. |
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Wrong. |
Originally Posted by RevolverMike
Except the T9's would get to play with the shineys for like a year before everyone else could buy them. That price point is redic for a costume set for points. 800 would be sufficient.
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Only the VIP's that were subscribing when the shineys were added to the T9 Rewards would get to play with them for a year. All the VIP's that unlock the T9 Rewards after they were added will have less and less time to play with the shineys as time passes.
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The price point, currently, for Celestial pieces is approximately $25-45. How's that for "redic" [sic]?
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Originally Posted by RevolverMike
Except the T9's would get to play with the shineys for like a year before everyone else could buy them. That price point is redic for a costume set for points. 800 would be sufficient.
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Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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We are both right. |
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
T4 isn't halfway up the rewards tree. You need 34 tokens to fill out T8, so your 35th token can be spent on T9. Half of that is 17, which puts you halfway into T6. So unlocking it at T5/13 tokens (just under halfway) or T6/20 tokens (just over halfway) would be better than T4/8 tokens. (Keeping in mind that everyone gets 1 token automagically, so the required number of tokens to purchase/earn is one less.)
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Reason i am right: Basic math: 4+4=8
Reason i am wrong: I did not keep in mind the ratio regarding tokens, but again, i feel a VIP is a VIP and should have access to all VIP stuff.
I also agree with the fact that these should never be in the store.
The argument i brought up regarding store pricing was to counter the argument that people spent hundreds of bucks on points to get to slot T9VIp, but wouldn't mind if down the road those sets would be in the store, yet they do not want just any VIP getting them because they have not paid their dues, time or $ wise.
So why let people, even non VIPS pay 400-800PP, but current VIPs can not have them now? 400-800PP is $5-$10, while being a VIP is $15x3=$45 because there are 3 slots to fill to get all the pieces.
Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
Crab Spider Nephila on Titan Tracker
Weekly events on Guardian: W.A.V.E. & FNFN
I understand why these things are being said, but...
The price point for the VIP sets are not $15-45...
If you're saying that your VIP perks and all mean absolutely squat... Well, that's still not how the seller of these things is looking at it, "Fifteen Dollars for VIP Tokens and you can have this other stuff (Incarnates, IOs, Free powersets and costumes, etc.) along with it!!".
Yeah... no.
Relax the maths. They're doing you wrong.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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As long as they keep making new T9 costume sets, I don't think it would be a problem for them to go into the store eventually and be taken out of the T9 rotation. Otherwise either a) the time for old costumes to rotate back into the system would become crazy long or b) the frequency with which they introduce new T9 costumes would have to drop way down.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Yeah not seeing the fairness in this at all unless the costume pieces will only be purchaseable by VIP's once they go into the store. The only reason they are VIP restricted to begin with is because they are an incentive to subscribe, even if it's only for a month. Putting them in the store for anyone to purchase defeats the purpose of them being VIP rewards.
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Right now, we're getting something new every time a T9 costume set shows up, because they're all new. But two or three years down the line, either we're back to the old Vet Reward problem, where new players had almost no chance of getting the items on the distant horizon, or we're in a situation where long-term vets very rarely have anything new show up for them.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
Thrillseekers idea seems like a good option.
I will support anything that makes it possible to get the t9 vip rewards without paying huge amounts of money or wait for years. Even if the tokens would work as it was told like giving them straight up when you get time for your account it would be better than what we have now.
I'm in a funny position here. I jumped from EU to US after years of being an EU player due to lack of teaming options. So I have a Subscription account which is on Tier 6 and a Premium which I never touch which is actually Tier 8.
So I'd love some option to gain access to the Tier 9 VIP sets, I've easily spent the money over the years but because it's across 2 different accounts due to EU atrophy I can't.
Some option to gain access to them would be brilliant.
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Why should it matter when a powerset is delayed? After all, Staff fighting is cool but it's *just* another melee set. |
Originally Posted by Ruthia
Not signing.
Why? Well to be honest why should it matter? Sure the pieces are cool and interesting looking but they are JUST COSTUME PIECES. |
What's important to some people is not the same as what's important to others. Fire and Ice finally let me get a character who I created back when COV was new to what she was *supposed* to be - as opposed to using... think it was Chitin or Insect Armor, I'd have to look again - to try to simulate cracked, charcoal-y ash.
Yes, it makes a huge difference to me with that character. Doesn't make a bit of difference in how she plays, quite honestly, but makes a *big* difference in my enjoyment of it.
As for the rest, I said pretty much the same thing earlier. Get Tier4 unlocked, then (as VIP - I hadn't added that, but agree that it should "stay VIP" as an incentive to subscribe) you can put the tokens in the costume options.
How about...
For each completed tier above 4 (including 4) you can place ONE token on the Tier9vip?
That way you handle a bit of the parts, while at the same time you keep the drive to grw on the tree...
But that would be hell to implement, and probably will generate more bugs.
Actually, any revamp here could introduce some nasty game-breaking bug, divesting resources and costing subscriptions from the Doom crowd.
** Guardian�s Crazy Catgirl **
************* 22 XxX 10 *************
Yes. I can get lost on a straight-line map.
I'd have to say No to the OP's post and No to any modification to when the T9VIP stuff is accessible in the Rewards Program.
I am a nearly 6-year vet and have had money issues through most of the time I've been subbed. I had to wait through a couple of years to get stuff unlocked through the old Vet Rewards system. I was T7 at Freedom start, and through time and cash, I am now T9 with both sets filled and one Booster bought through the T9 repeatable (which will be T9VIP w/I23).
The way the Paragon Rewards System is set up is fine. It allows faster access to the previous Vet Rewards and still has incentives for those who have been long term subbers or those who have more recently subbed, but have also spent a good amount of money for Paragon Points. And as mentioned up thread, Z has mentioned that the rotated out sets will be available in some other method at a later point.
Thank you for the time...
@Travlr (Main) / @Tymers Realm (Test) 
Feel free to do the same.