Suggestion: Revamp T9VIP

You said what i said.

If a new VIP is able to pick VIP rewards with this Revamp, the people who opened their wallets, or those who have been here a while will have more tokens placed, thus, more items and stuff unlocked.

Hold it with the sheers there!

Time = Money. Therefore, waiting = money.

I'm talking about a difference in spending a LOT of money now, vs spending a little bit of money later. And before THIS gets confused for some other argument, I'm comparing the difference between spending a lot of money on points (or having already spent a lot of money on subscription time) and receiving access to special costume pieces as a reward for handing over so much money, vs making those same costume pieces available to everyone else a year or more later for just some points (bypassing the need to have already spent hundreds of $ before unlocking access to them). The basis of this being by that time there will be more and newer rewards for those who have spend hundreds of $, and such players can still feel special for having had the other stuff first, if they had already spent that hundreds of $ way back when they were exclusively available to to such players.

Is this thread seriously become so off course it's that difficult to keep track of anyone's point of view?

One of my favorite sayings in various market threads over the years has been "the only real currency in the game is time", so I'm already halfway on your side here.

But then you lost me.

If we accept that VIP Tier 9 Costumery is a carrot to incentivize subscriptions (which we do all seem to agree on), opening it up to just anyone, *whenever they do it*, is contrary to their own best interests.

The *point* of them is that players, one way or another, spend substantially for access- either by maintaining a subscription for many years (like yours truly) or by dropping a bundle on Paragon Points.

And looking forward, by not issuing them generally they build up incentives for future subscription revenue. Like Disney back in the pre-digital age, when they'd re-release their movies every few years and people would race to snap up Fantasia or whatever before they took it back off the market. They leveraged that exclusivity into a reliable source of ongoing profit.

Keeping them exclusive gives them a library of (hopefully) desirable items they can recycle in the future, or release concurrently with whatever the 'new' set of the moment is.


Not saying that at some point they might not add the VIP stuff to the 'ala carte' menu- after all Disney wasn't able to maintain their model of exclusivity in the face of the digital revolution- but it doesn't make any business sense right now.

I can see why you want them, but I can also see why Paragon set things up as they did.

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

Seems like most of the people against this are already way past T9, and most of those have this kind of attitude.

As stated before, Long Time Vets and people who paid their way up the tree get 550PP a month, they also have the option to pick the T9 repeatable rewards. While the other VIPs who do not have T8 filled get 400PP a month. VIPs who are on T3 and pick the VIP reward will not get 550PP a month, they will not have the choice to pick any of the T9 repeatable rewards either.

So to say that the Long Term Vets and the people who bought their way up the tree are losing out, is unfounded.

VIPs who prefer to pick a VIP reward instead of filling their own Tier delay their way up the Reward Tree, thus 'losing' potential benefits they could have picked and kept while they drop back to Premium.

The biggest difference is when people drop back to Premium.
If you as long term player or person who bought their way up the tree drop back to Premium, you still keep all the things you have unlocked along the way. People who instead picked VIP rewards instead of filling their tree have less 'perma' unlocked abilities.

If you have a VIP area pass to an event, but see that other VIPs get more than you just because it's your 1st time at the event, i bet you'll be complaining too.

VIP is VIP!

Welcome to real life, where there are "tiers" of membership at exclusive clubs.

All of them.

Don't be surprised when they kick you out of the hockey arena because you paid for the cheap seats and tried to worm your way into a booth stocked with food and drinks in the fridge and a nicer view of the game.

Sorry about that. I misread what you were saying. My bad for posting while I'm doing several other things at the same time.

Before Freedom the only option players had on vet gated costumes was Money + Waiting = Vet Reward Costumes.

Now we have Money in monthly installments + Waiting = Tier 9 Costumes

or

Money up front = Tier 9 Costumes

It doesn't matter which path one chooses both end up paying the same amount to unlock the Tier 9 rewards. And if the truth be told new VIP's have the advantage over older vets because they can pick up copies of old CoH editions for a dollar or two and get several months of VIP status with all the perks for much less than 1 months subscription.

You name all the VIP costume sets, Mecha will be.. uhm.. 3rd set?
Celestial, Fire & Ice, and Mecha.. yeah, that makes 3.

Now name all the other costume bundles all, even premiums can purchase.. Uhmm.. let's see:
CoT, Origin Capes, Valkyrie, Science, Barbarian, Elemental Order, Imperial Dynasty, Martial Arts, Carnival of Light, Roman, Vanguard, Steampunk, Aphla, Omega, Gunslinger, Clockwork, Justice, Magic pack, Pocket D pack, Sinister, Wedding pack, OverGuard, Praetorian Police, Resistance, Sport... i am sure i am missing a few.

Yeah, i guess the Devs see costumes as something only VIPs should get.

He never ONCE said that. Not once. He said costumes are a great thing to be gated by veteran rewards (note he didn't specify the T9VIP costumes either), with the implication being that the City playerbase is gaga about costume customization. There are a large number of costume pieces gated by veteran rewards (aka Paragon Rewards now).

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

Nope, he said it twice, my bad.

And how many of those existed before the implimentation of Freedom?
Presumably at least some would be VIP only options if they were introduced to the game today, with the store & tier system in place.


They see VIP tier costumes as stuff only VIPs should get, most certainly.

26 total: 19 Pre i21.
Again, this is not a full list, because i didn't add several that are free to all, or even free to VIPs, just the ones which are in the store.. and i still think i am missing a few.

And i am a VIP, yet can not get these.

Hence my suggestion was to open the T9VIP rewards to all VIPs, rename it T-VIP. The people who have been here long term and the people who have bought their way up will not be affected, they will not loose their 550PP a month, and have access to all that they have unlocked in the reward tree if for some reason they drop to Premium.
Those who have not unlocked T8, will still have a chance to pick a T-VIP reward, however, they are halted in their Reward Tree progress because they choose to place their token in the T-VIP section, hence, when they drop to Premium, have less 'perma' unlocked than the people who have been here for a really long time or those who were able and willing to buy their way up the tree.

Not getting your point here.

They've pretty much always released free costume bits along with paid or gated stuff.

VIP is a new way to gate stuff, one that they're using.

I understand you want the stuff, but you haven't made a compelling (or any, really) argument as to why they ought to give it to you.


Then get to Tier 9.
Either keep subbing and wait, or speed things up and buy in.

Prior to Freedom if you wanted any of the Vet Reward stuff your only option was to stay subscribed and wait to become eligible. The current system strikes me as more than fair, and yet you still complain.

*shrug*

Why should they?
Please make the case as to why it's in the best financial interest of the game to follow your suggestion.

I did, several times, but it seems that certain people only see what they want to see, and ignore the rest.

Yet, i do not see any real solid argument as to why they should not approve my suggestion.

I always find it funny when people point at the old rewards and say, "We had to wait back then too." and find that a compelling argument as to why VIPs should not be allowed to pick VIP rewards. Yet the whole reason why there was a system overhaul was because the time gate was even in their eyes, absurd.

I guess people's view would have been different if i started playing in Beta all these years ago and suggest this, then it would be seen as "Being nice to the new people" instead of "How dare this runt demand to get the same stuff as us."
Snobs and elitist will always try to keep the rest down, guess it's some status thing they cling to.

I've read all your posts and haven't seen much beyond "I want this thing I'm not yet qualified to have, please change the rules to suit me, TIA!"

Why should they give you what you want when the current system suits their needs admirably?

What's in it for them, in other words.



They overhauled the system because the entire business model of the game was drastically re-imagined. The old way of inspiring account loyalty (time gating certain rewards) was replaced by a new system, gating by either time or a substantial financial investment.

Unless you forsee a similar drastic re-engineering in the near future, this gate seems like to be in place quite as long as the previous one.

Not implying their re-imagining was perfect, but it seems, so far anyway, to have been meticulously well thought out.

An entitlement whine is an entitlement whine, whatever your reg date.

The question as to why they should un-gate something so specifically and carefully gated has yet to be answered.

As i said, you see what you want to see, and ignore the rest.

There is a big difference that I see and I only offer it for consideration (not that I believe they will make any changes to the tier structure, honestly).
The old system had a few costume options that were not very far into the vet system. 1.5 years, if I recall correctly. Nothing after 3 years (and the only things that came that late were the old pre-order non-customizable Arachnos helmets.

What's the difference?
The later vet rewards were more Quality of Life features, while costume options, in this game, are something that can make or break a character. Sometimes a character just can't be done without the right options... and the game may not have those options. However, when the game does have those options, but they're gated off, that can spoil the fun of things.
(Hey, I know... "boohoo", hehe. However, we could pass off the significance of EVERYTHING within this game. I'm only speaking within terms relative to happy fun passtime video game stuff).

That's just a difference that I see and think of.

It is interesting and an interesting subject, however, the arguments are not quite as interesting to me.
I think they've decided what they want to do and are going to stick to it... so this is all just between us. Don't get me wrong... it's great to provide them with feedback. I just think it is useless to argue about this stuff.
You (the universal you, not anyone in particular) like it or you don't like it. Lording over anyone based on opinions of the matter only reveals a lack of character on the attacker's part. Just because someone does not like the current setup does not mean that they have entitlement issues. Does anybody here have nothing they think could be changed for the better in some way?? Do you think everyone is going to agree with your suggestion??
Just like everyone who likes the current setup isn't displaying their own entitlement issues.
The only people who have the answers are the designers/developers/monsters of marketing (you heard me, Zwill!).

Your last question, Goat, about how would it be better for the company?
I really don't know.
I could speculate on possible ways it could be made more profitable for them, but I can't say it would be with any certainty.

From my own personal situation... I honestly do not like that I've been subscribed to this game for over 4 years, but I have no access to the three awesome VIP costume sets. That honestly doesn't strike me as being right. Four plus years subscription to a single game seems like it should be enough to merit not having to sit and watch these shiny sets coming out of my reach.
And a bigger factor, for me, is this... Take my money for subscription time and give me the rewards up front and we're golden.
Only giving the Reward Tokens upfront for points purchases is disappointing (they had planned to grant the tokens for prepaid time, but have not been able to and, last we heard, Zwill said not to expect it to be changed any time soon). Money is money. And if I give it to the company for a year's subscription or for points, it'd be a nicer situation if they'd count it just the same.
I'm pretty sure that has to do with the whole billing aspect which is somewhat out of their control/jurisdiction. So, I'm not griping to them about this, but I do have my opinions on the matter.

Right now, with all the VIP costume sets... you're talking 9 months beyond the time it takes to get to Tier 9.
How many more costume sets and how much more time gets added on as we go?
And, for those who were not there in time, wait and see what happens.
I think there is room for improvement... but only for people that may not really be a major consideration for the company's bottom line. *shrugs*

The fact that Zwill has made it clear that these sets will be made available is a good sign.
However, then it comes right back around the other side... if it is not restricted to VIPs only... then, instead of rotating things out... why not just lower the requirements as time passes (as has been suggested).

That, honestly, seems a bit like a win win... unless the company would really just win by selling them in the store... which I am also all for (just seems like some won't be happy about that... but, some will always not be happy. That is life).

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

Let's see . . .

Under the old system if you wanted to make a gritty themed private eye you had to subscribe and wait for three months ($45 bucks) before you got the Trench Coat.

Under the New system you have to spend 5 minutes after creating an account "buying" and placing 2 reward tokens for $15 bucks (1 month sub) or $30 bucks for 2640 PP.

You had to wait 15 months ($225 bucks) for access to Angelic/Demon wings.
Samurai Armor was an 18 ($270 bucks) month wait.
Shoulder Capes was a 21 ($315 bucks) month wait

New players can get them all for the purchase of 6, 7, and 8 tokens ($100).

We had to wait 39 months ($585 bucks) to get the boxing outfit New players can get it for just 14 tokens ($165).

And to unlock the Tier 9 VIP rewards you need 34 tokens and maybe 15 minutes after creating an account to buy and assign the rewards ($450 on Paragon Points and $2 bucks for one of the boxed editions of CoH.) Us old vets paid $1260 and waited 84 months.

Yeah new players are at such a disadvantage having to wait at most a half an hour after creating a brand new account to buy and unlock VIP restricted costume pieces and only paying around a third of the amount long time vets have paid.

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

Allowing people to cherry pick rewards from a tired reward system fundamentally undercuts the entire purpose of having a tiered reward system in the first place. Tiered rewards systems work by having desirable items spread all across the reward tree, to act as an incentive to customers at all levels on the tree.

Paragon is not going to let people start hopping all over the tiers taking what they want, because otherwise they wouldn't have stuck with the tired reward system for Freedom. Clearly, they like the reward tree structure. They have already revamped the system to set up a new one they feel is appropriately gated by time/money.