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Don't the VIPs who select this rewards still have access to them if they drop back to premium? If so, then if available for purchase as points they should be available to everyone, not just VIPs. You know, just like everything that costs points.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Yeah not seeing the fairness in this at all unless the costume pieces will only be purchaseable by VIP's once they go into the store. The only reason they are VIP restricted to begin with is because they are an incentive to subscribe, even if it's only for a month. Putting them in the store for anyone to purchase defeats the purpose of them being VIP rewards.
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Yes they do get to keep them but using your logic all VIP perks should be sold on the store and no one would ever pay for a subscrition again. So no they shouldn't be sold to everyone, only VIP's.|
Originally Posted by DustRaven
Don't the VIPs who select this rewards still have access to them if they drop back to premium? If so, then if available for purchase as points they should be available to everyone, not just VIPs. You know, just like everything that costs points.
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If a person is too cheap to sub for 1 month or pick up an old copy of CoH from Amazon for $2 bucks they don't deserve access to VIP perks.
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I think you've completely missed something here. I'm not saying VIP rewards should be made available in the store to everybody from when that reward is first introduced. I'm saying after some amount of time (say a year) items which were exclusively available to veteran/$$$ VIPs such items could be made available to everyone via the store using Paragon Points rather than reward tokens. Because they'd be available via points instead of token, they'd HAVE to be made available to everyone, just like EVERYTHING in the store.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Yes they do get to keep them but using your logic all VIP perks should be sold on the store and no one would ever pay for a subscrition again. So no they shouldn't be sold to everyone, only VIP's.
If a person is too cheap to sub for 1 month or pick up an old copy of CoH from Amazon for $2 bucks they don't deserve access to VIP perks. |
You should only be VIP to receive a few items first, not ever.
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But this game doesn't have a fixed number of VIP players, we are always getting new players that want to be VIP's and for them the Tier 9 rewards will be brands new.|
Originally Posted by DustRaven
I think you've completely missed something here. I'm not saying VIP rewards should be made available in the store to everybody from when that reward is first introduced. I'm saying after some amount of time (say a year) items which were exclusively available to veteran/$$$ VIPs such items could be made available to everyone via the store using Paragon Points rather than reward tokens. Because they'd be available via points instead of token, they'd HAVE to be made available to everyone, just like EVERYTHING in the store.
You should only be VIP to receive a few items first, not ever. |
Making the rewards available to everyone defeats the purpose of them being VIP subscription incentives. Now if the devs want to add a new category to the store for older perks that would only be purchasable by active VIP's that's fine by me. They would still be fulfilling their intended role of being subscription incentives.
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Except that by having them as VIP, even if the person drops later, the items have fulfilled their purpose - namely, convinced someone to subscribe, even if only for a little while. |
Originally Posted by DustRaven
Don't the VIPs who select this rewards still have access to them if they drop back to premium? If so, then if available for purchase as points they should be available to everyone, not just VIPs. You know, just like everything that costs points.
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It's a carrot.
They subscribe, get their VIP costume bits - then maybe try out the SSAs they didn't bother with because they needed to be purchased, since those are free for VIPS, or try out powersets they may not yet have access to. Then get to 50 and they can try out the Incarnate stuff - which is VIP only, and a reason to *keep* subscribing (for some.)
VIP perks are an incentive to subscribe. Subscriptions are (in theory) a more constant source of revenue Paragon Studios and PlayNC can point at to project future income, decide how much "stuff" to make, etc. as a baseline - a la carte (premium) purchases aren't predictable.
Why did I catch flack for daring to suggest tier 9 F2P'ers get ungated forum access with THIS neon-lit pyramid of entitlement out there in the wild?!?
Grrr! =P
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My City Was Gone
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But sets can only be bought when they're one of the two sets currently available. The question becomes, how often do sets rotate back in, and how many sets will there be in total? How often is a new set added?|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And under the current system it is impossible for rotating Tier 9 VIP rewards to be anything like the old Vet Reward scenario. Nothing is preventing brand new players from spending money to unlock Tier 9 access and getting the rewards as they rotate thru as soon as the oldest Vets get them. Furthermore the long term Vets have access to the new rewards as soon as they are added.
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At the moment, the seems to be a new set coming in every 4 months. So, if there were only 6 different VIP costume sets, and after that no new ones were ever made, they'd only rotate in every 2 years and long-term vets would never get anything new. With a dozen sets, it would be four years between each one appearing in the line-up.
If every costume set is split up into three parts, then I don't think it's practicable to introduce a new set more often than once every three months. At three months rather than four, it would still take three years to work through a 12 set rotation.
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Which is why I have said in other posts I have no problem with the devs offering "older" Tier 9 VIP perks outside the reward program as long as they remain VIP incentives.
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Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
But sets can only be bought when they're one of the two sets currently available. The question becomes, how often do sets rotate back in, and how many sets will there be in total? How often is a new set added?
At the moment, the seems to be a new set coming in every 4 months. So, if there were only 6 different VIP costume sets, and after that no new ones were ever made, they'd only rotate in every 2 years and long-term vets would never get anything new. With a dozen sets, it would be four years between each one appearing in the line-up. If every costume set is split up into three parts, then I don't think it's practicable to introduce a new set more often than once every three months. At three months rather than four, it would still take three years to work through a 12 set rotation. |
I'm T9, been here since pre-order head start. Personally I think this is a fine idea, exclusivity is highly overrated. I've been here and stayed here not because I have something better than the next guy, or because I got a special reward for staying, I have stayed here because I enjoy playing the game. The veteran reward system was just a perk for me, and I think pretty much the same of the current system. Is life better as a VIP? IMO, yes, the incarnate stuff alone is incentive enough for me to pay for my subs.
I can understand the main tier tree as an incentive for new players to subscribe, there is a lot of great stuff to be had there, a large part of which improves QoL in the game. But the costumes are fluff, no need to be exclusive about them.
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Well in the 8 years the game has been running the devs have learned that your opinion about costumes isn't shared by many players, and as such do indeed serve well as Vet Rewards incentive under the old system and now a VIP incentive.
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Originally Posted by ShadowHex
I can understand the main tier tree as an incentive for new players to subscribe, there is a lot of great stuff to be had there, a large part of which improves QoL in the game. But the costumes are fluff, no need to be exclusive about them.
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And they would have fulfilled that purpose while available exclusively to T9 VIPs. A year later the game will have some other carrot to entice players to upgrade to VIP. We don't need a huge basket of carrots.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Except that by having them as VIP, even if the person drops later, the items have fulfilled their purpose - namely, convinced someone to subscribe, even if only for a little while.
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Wrong.|
Originally Posted by DustRaven
And they would have fulfilled that purpose while available exclusively to T9 VIPs. A year later the game will have some other carrot to entice players to upgrade to VIP. We don't need a huge basket of carrots.
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The devs have given non subscribers access to more than enough stuff in the game. A huge basket of VIP carrots is exactly what is needed to keep enticing people to subscribe. If VIP exclusives can be downgraded people will decide subscribing is a waste of money. Why subscribe when all they have to do is wait for it to be downgraded.
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I've been back for over a month now and haven't found a compelling reason to re-sub.|
Originally Posted by DustRaven
We don't need a huge basket of carrots.
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From where I sit VIP is suffering from a serious carrot deficit.
Now some of that is my Tier 9-ness, some of it is my basic disinterest in 'endgame' content...but even so, there should be something else on offer besides a costume set or two.
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I think you're missing the "wait a year or more" aspect here. You know the saying... good things some to those who wait, while those who put some effort into it can have those things right now.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Wrong.
The devs have given non subscribers access to more than enough stuff in the game. A huge basket of VIP carrots is exactly what is needed to keep enticing people to subscribe. If VIP exclusives can be downgraded people will decide subscribing is a waste of money. Why subscribe when all they have to do is wait for it to be downgraded. |
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I think maybe you just want better carrots. A costume set with some glowy bits is a strange bit of incentive in that some people don't really care, but others are willing to rage quit their accounts if they can't have it now. My own opinion is there should be more than just costume pieces as their spent-hundreds-of-dollars-on-top-of-subscribing reward option. But discussion is probably best left for a different thread.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I've been back for over a month now and haven't found a compelling reason to re-sub.
From where I sit VIP is suffering from a serious carrot deficit. Now some of that is my Tier 9-ness, some of it is my basic disinterest in 'endgame' content...but even so, there should be something else on offer besides a costume set or two. |
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No I'm not missing it. On more than one occasion I have waited a year in order to make a character just because the costume concept required items that were only available during specific holiday events.|
Originally Posted by DustRaven
I think you're missing the "wait a year or more" aspect here. You know the saying... good things some to those who wait, while those who put some effort into it can have those things right now.
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Currently in STO I'm going to be waiting 10 months so I can unlock the Flagship pack for free cuz there's no way in hell I'm paying $50 bucks for a starship. I'll be waiting another 10 months to get the Klingon flagships for free which is another $50 bucks.
This game needs more VIP exclusive items and costume pieces are one of the ways to do it.
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I'm an absolute sucker for costume bits.|
Originally Posted by DustRaven
I think maybe you just want better carrots. A costume set with some glowy bits is a strange bit of incentive in that some people don't really care, but others are willing to rage quit their accounts if they can't have it now. My own opinion is there should be more than just costume pieces as their spent-hundreds-of-dollars-on-top-of-subscribing reward option. But discussion is probably best left for a different thread.
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Prior to the 'freedom' era I picked up every booster pack they offered, including the much maligned "party pack".
Oh wait, I never got the Wedding pack...but all the others.
During my current "free" month I've actually spent thirty bucks on Paragon points, the bulk of which have gone toward costume bundles that were added while I was on hiatus.
Costume stuff is a strong incentive with this playerbase.
I agree they could do with a wider variety of stuff in the basket, but sexy premium costume bits definitely belong in that mix.
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My City Was Gone
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They can. By opening their wallets. You just neutered your own argument.
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Originally Posted by DustRaven
I think you're missing the "wait a year or more" aspect here. You know the saying... good things some to those who wait, while those who put some effort into it can have those things right now.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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And those who opened their wallets, will still have more stuff and perks than people who are new VIPs and are able to choose the VIP costume rewards.
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Very well said.|
Originally Posted by ShadowHex
I'm T9, been here since pre-order head start. Personally I think this is a fine idea, exclusivity is highly overrated. I've been here and stayed here not because I have something better than the next guy, or because I got a special reward for staying, I have stayed here because I enjoy playing the game. The veteran reward system was just a perk for me, and I think pretty much the same of the current system. Is life better as a VIP? IMO, yes, the incarnate stuff alone is incentive enough for me to pay for my subs.
I can understand the main tier tree as an incentive for new players to subscribe, there is a lot of great stuff to be had there, a large part of which improves QoL in the game. But the costumes are fluff, no need to be exclusive about them. |
Honestly, I've always been for non-gated costume parts (so, this example is nothing new at all). I find that, not only is exclusivity overrated (and often times detrimental to the fun atmosphere of a shared world), there are tons of options that I might have "earned" that I'm not going to use that other people will make great use of and my experience would only benefit by having those people running around and using them.
The more options everyone has, the more I get to enjoy seeing these different things used as each individual may choose to use them.
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No they won't. A brand new player that is willing to open his wallet to unlock the Tier 9 rewards while subscribing for one month has access to the exact same items as a VIP who has been subbed for 8 years.
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
And those who opened their wallets, will still have more stuff and perks than people who are new VIPs and are able to choose the VIP costume rewards.
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quick question, how does one go about "buying" Tier 9?|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
No they won't. A brand new player that is willing to open his wallet to unlock the Tier 9 rewards while subscribing for one month has access to the exact same items as a VIP who has been subbed for 8 years.
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I'm already there thanks to my seven-ish years of support, but I keep seeing references to people just purchasing it- how does that work?
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
You get Paragon Points for spending xx amount of cash in the store. You spend these Paragon Points on the pyramid, tier by tier until you complete T9. Spend enough cash and you can buy your way to T9 pretty quick.
Aha- thanks!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Right now, we're getting something new every time a T9 costume set shows up, because they're all new. But two or three years down the line, either we're back to the old Vet Reward problem, where new players had almost no chance of getting the items on the distant horizon, or we're in a situation where long-term vets very rarely have anything new show up for them.
And under the current system it is impossible for rotating Tier 9 VIP rewards to be anything like the old Vet Reward scenario. Nothing is preventing brand new players from spending money to unlock Tier 9 access and getting the rewards as they rotate thru as soon as the oldest Vets get them. Furthermore the long term Vets have access to the new rewards as soon as they are added.