The fate of Praetorian Earth in Dark Astoria? (spoilers)
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-04-15 19:07 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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The existence of the DE is very useful for Tyrant and the loyalists |
Originally Posted by Agent White
If Cole was truly the Well's Champion and had amassed all this power and all this tech what exactly was stopping him from turning it onto the Hamidon and the Devouring Earth? The praetorians can create massive plans to neutralize super powers and sterilize Primal earth but can't do anything against the Devouring Earth?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I suppose maybe you can grind your way to 50 without leaving Praetoria, but it would be horrible. And can you even unlock your incarnate slots or queue for iTrials as a praetorian?|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
They are
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I know you're just being snarky, but the issue is that the original Praetorian story arcs make a really big deal about avoiding the kind of murderous outcome that the so-called "heroic" iTrials later does everything to promote. While that's fine in itself, it just goes counter to the motivations that the Going Rogue content was trying to instil in your characters (unless, I guess, you're a Crusader in which case it fits right in).
My responsibility loyalist had to take down a close friend in order to prevent exactly what the TPN trial is trying to accomplish, and, with his dying breath, he made me promise that Mother would pay for her crimes against Praetoria. It was a powerful, emotional moment, that is being completely invalidated by later content.
If I wanted to stay true to what happened in Going Rogue, I couldn't take part of most of the iTrials. At least not on Primal Earth's side (although, as much as I dislike the trials, my loyalist totally have to be there for the MoM trial. Mother needs a boot to the brain).
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
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it is suspected but not confirmed that the praetorian de are really some bad mamma jammas. they couldnt overwhelm cole and his crew, but they stalemated them and put them on disciplinary notice. im hoping the last hurrah is a major throw down with them.
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They make a convenient boogeyman, but running through the Praetorian content you do actually get, as corrupt as the loyalists are, that they really do want to protect the people (even if it's from themselves). |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The existence of the DE is very useful for Tyrant and the loyalists
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Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
I suppose maybe you can grind your way to 50 without leaving Praetoria, but it would be horrible. And can you even unlock your incarnate slots or queue for iTrials as a praetorian?
I know you're just being snarky, but the issue is that the original Praetorian story arcs make a really big deal about avoiding the kind of murderous outcome that the so-called "heroic" iTrials later does everything to promote. While that's fine in itself, it just goes counter to the motivations that the Going Rogue content was trying to instil in your characters (unless, I guess, you're a Crusader in which case it fits right in). My responsibility loyalist had to take down a close friend in order to prevent exactly what the TPN trial is trying to accomplish, and, with his dying breath, he made me promise that Mother would pay for her crimes against Praetoria. It was a powerful, emotional moment, that is being completely invalidated by later content. If I wanted to stay true to what happened in Going Rogue, I couldn't take part of most of the iTrials. At least not on Primal Earth's side (although, as much as I dislike the trials, my loyalist totally have to be there for the MoM trial. Mother needs a boot to the brain). |
Even if Praetoria eventually reaches a point where it's possible to go from 1-50 and remain a loyalist/resistance I still expect that in the end you'll be forced to go to a Primal alignment. Especially with the Praetorian story coming to a close the alignments are becoming kind of meaningless. With Cole's empire gone and the safety of Praetoria compromised it's going to become like First Ward where loyalty matters less and survival matters more.
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I think you are probably right. It's just a shame, because the storytelling in Praetoria (at least from 1-20) is really superior to anything else in the game. IMHO!|
Originally Posted by Agent White
See, it's stuff like this that I take as evidence that the 'grand plan' of Praetoria that started in Going Rogue changed focus once they got to developing the trials. Either that or it's simply some very poor planning. As it is though, I think praetoria was just an experiment that didn't work out and the iTrials are just the cleanup shunting the story towards it's conclusion.
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There are some really powerful moments scattered through those early levels. Whether it's a loyalist deciding that they have to clean up the Cole Regime from the inside while struggling to keep civilian casualties to a minimum, or a resistance member who reprogram clockwork to murder civilians right on Cole's lawn just to make the regime look vulnerable.
Or that one invading Longbow agent who wonders "are we really sure all Praetorians are evil? Their PPD mostly carry non-lethal weaponry. Look what we are carrying!"
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
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I have to agree with this. I personally find low level Praetoria to be the best part of the game (I will still happily solo new alts through it, whereas I'm already bored of the new atlas park content and only level heroes through DFB runs). We have contacts we can empathise with, who actually invoke feelings, rather than just being yet another person on the street we get thrown at. My last resistance warden got all the way to 20, before stumbling at the final hurdle: taking out the water supply was just a step too far for her. We don't get anything like this anywhere else in the game, and even the first ward content throws most of the choices away. We might get a passing comment about something we did, but we're all treated the same regardless.|
Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
I think you are probably right. It's just a shame, because the storytelling in Praetoria (at least from 1-20) is really superior to anything else in the game. IMHO!
There are some really powerful moments scattered through those early levels. Whether it's a loyalist deciding that they have to clean up the Cole Regime from the inside while struggling to keep civilian casualties to a minimum, or a resistance member who reprogram clockwork to murder civilians right on Cole's lawn just to make the regime look vulnerable. Or that one invading Longbow agent who wonders "are we really sure all Praetorians are evil? Their PPD mostly carry non-lethal weaponry. Look what we are carrying!" |
The itrials just don't click with me. I've done lambda and baf runs, keyes once, but they are just smash-fests and I haven't any interest in running the newer ones. There are too many people and they are too fast paced for the story to be told properly, and in my opinion they suffer for it. They are also, as has been stated, totally one-sided. My responsibility loyalists came to Primal Earth to try and stop the war. That hasn't happened, but it doesn't mean they want to go back at the head of an army of conquest. They should have the option to stand at Cole's side and defend their home, or at least continue to protect the people while Cole's regime comes down around them.
Praetoria has so much wasted potential, and even though First Ward and Night Ward are good in their own ways, I don't think we will see anything that measures up to those early levels again
Thank you kindly. A few points I want to comment on:
1. Cole made a deal with the Hamidon. Wait, what? When did that happen? What was this deal about? And what's all this talk about "champion of the Well?" Bearded Smurf only really alluded to Cole being the Well's champion, but what is this about? Can anyone elaborate on the Well and the Hamidon and the Common Cole?
2. DAMN that's a drastic body count. Now I'm glad I never took my heroes through the Trials. These are essentially about killing, what, a dozen people in cold blood? AND tossing an entire world into complete chaos? What was our moral stand on the Praetorian Invasion, again? Because it seems to me like Cole was right to be afraid of Primal Earth if we essentially destroyed his world just like he said we would.
3. My theory about Praetoria is it started as 40-50 content which was supposed to feed into Incarnate content immediately upon conclusion. It explains why the critters are so incredibly powerful, and it also explains why it starts at such a high level of importance, dealing with elite police forces and messing with the movers and shakers of the world, as opposed to fighting thugs and cut-throats like in City of Heroes and City of Villains. My impression is also that, as pointed out, whatever moral ambiguity and decision was intended to exist in Praetoria was tossed out pretty early on when they realised just how expensive those Trials were to make, and instead just made a lot of those. I'd file 1-20 Praetoria in the same category as bases, PvP and Gladiators. Good idea, but pretty much abandoned.
4. I'm right up to the point in the Dark Astoria storyline where I realise Sister Solaris' top is transparent. I mean... I'm right up to the point in the Dark Astoria storyline where I travel in time. I just took the first mission from there but I haven't entered it. So far, Dark Astoria is pretty much the best content I've seen in this game for... Pretty much years. It's still morbid, but it gives me the power to resist this depression, rather than just painting the world as horrid and unfair. The missions are simple and straightforward fighting not cluttered with cutscenes and useless scripted events (I witnessed a dialogue between two bosses in actual gameplay, which I LOVED). The difficulty isn't too bad, though every special spawn seems to be set to "medium size" which makes some fights MUCH harder than others. And the writing is relatively decent, with some grammar quirks here and there, but it's an honest effort. About the only thing I can complain about is it seems all the Praetorian stuff just feels like padding. Diabolique, Duncan, the Talons and so on just pad the story, to the point where Mot is barely in it at all at this point. Still good, though. A LOT better than those god damn SSAs, lemme' tell ya.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The deal with Hamidon is revealed in the Underground tiral. Cole did't kill the Hamidon, he negotiated a ceasefire. Something along the lines of Hamidon letting humanity live if Cole could get it under control.
Then the Primals showed up and Hamidon noticed. It contacted Cole and told him that by "humanity" it mean ALL humanity, also the guys from another dimension that just showed up. We know how that went, so Praetorian Hamidon is, shall we say, unamused... and COMING RIGHT AT US!
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
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not anymore
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Originally Posted by Zemblanity
- Battlemaiden - Arrested by PC heroes in Apex TF
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Paragonian Knights
Justice Company
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Keep in mind, that defeated only means dead if the game explicitly tells you so. Otherwise, we'd personally have killed Desdemona half a dozen times on our way to 50, and that clearly doesn't make sense with post-50 content.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
2. DAMN that's a drastic body count. Now I'm glad I never took my heroes through the Trials. These are essentially about killing, what, a dozen people in cold blood? AND tossing an entire world into complete chaos? What was our moral stand on the Praetorian Invasion, again? Because it seems to me like Cole was right to be afraid of Primal Earth if we essentially destroyed his world just like he said we would.
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It's safe to assume that most of these "casualties" are alive, but 'defeated' to the point where they are no longer in a position to stop us from mucking up their dimension.
If anything, they can always come back as giant hamidon super-monsters, once we've sacrificed all of Praetoria to the Devouring Earth.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
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Don't know if it's countered. Loyalists had one plan, that plan got ruined.|
Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
I suppose maybe you can grind your way to 50 without leaving Praetoria, but it would be horrible. And can you even unlock your incarnate slots or queue for iTrials as a praetorian?
I know you're just being snarky, but the issue is that the original Praetorian story arcs make a really big deal about avoiding the kind of murderous outcome that the so-called "heroic" iTrials later does everything to promote. While that's fine in itself, it just goes counter to the motivations that the Going Rogue content was trying to instil in your characters (unless, I guess, you're a Crusader in which case it fits right in). My responsibility loyalist had to take down a close friend in order to prevent exactly what the TPN trial is trying to accomplish, and, with his dying breath, he made me promise that Mother would pay for her crimes against Praetoria. It was a powerful, emotional moment, that is being completely invalidated by later content. If I wanted to stay true to what happened in Going Rogue, I couldn't take part of most of the iTrials. At least not on Primal Earth's side (although, as much as I dislike the trials, my loyalist totally have to be there for the MoM trial. Mother needs a boot to the brain). |
Your praetorian took down a close friend who tried to stop something like the TPN and then failed when something similar happened.
Though, yes, kinda suckie, we don't get to try to do differently.
To Sam:
1) It was explained in the UG trial which is before DA content. I'm no so sure Cole putting the Hamidon at a stalemate means Hamidone should of been the Wells Champion tho. Hamidon had to go to outside means to obtain that much power. That itself could put the Well against it.
2) I wonder to why the body count is that high. Seems like a waste to kill off so many powerful NPCS that can be used again as returning villains/allies.
Then again, it's heroes and villains teaming up to take them down, and maybe the devs wanted to throw the villains (and heroes), who wouldnt just arrest them, a win of their own.
3) I really love the alignment setup of Praetoria. Wish it could of been put in through all of CoH and kept all the way through Praetorian content.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Imagine if the rest of CoH had been designed the same way as Praetoria: Villains could do hero work, but got the option at certain points to "double cross" their contact. Heroes could go undercover to work with villains, only to bust them at the very last moment. Etc.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
3) I really love the alignment setup of Praetoria. Wish it could of been put in through all of CoH and kept all the way through Praetorian content.
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Co-op content could have worked much better, this way.
Maybe!
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
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I was going to say the same thing. She was freed by the Malta Group in exchange of help developing their nano-tech.
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Originally Posted by Grae Knight
not anymore
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Praetoria Spoilers Below!
There are several reasons why Cole can't take down the Hamidon in his own.
1: He couldn't do it in the first place.
During the Underground Trial, Vanessa DeVore finds that Cole never actually defeated the Hamidon, but negotiated a truce. If he kept a tight rein on Humanity, then the Devouring Earth would leave Praetoria alone.
That is why the Seers, Enriche, and all of the other tyrannical things exist. It was a ploy to make humanity docile and isolated. There are other motives (Tyrant is not a good person), but that's the big secret one.
When contact was made with Primal Earth, there was suddenly an ENTIRE MULTIVERSE of untamed humanity that put this deal at risk.
So war was declared to try and supress Primal Earth. Which just ended up making Hami angry.
2: The Well Doesn't Care
The Well has made Cole his champion because Cole's power over the people of Praetoria. With the Batallion fast approaching, the Well believes Cole has the power to hold them off because... Well. Prior to this point the number of Incarnates was somewhat more limited. You had Statesman, who was a wimp. Recluse, who wants to escape the well. Reichsman, who could have been a canidate at one point, but was completely trounced and made into Requiem's lackey. Stheno, who... Um. Is Stheno. And the Hamidon, who is the antithesis of all the well represents. Tyrant was the best option.
The Hamidon is a threat to humanity, but it's isolated to Praetoria. It has power, but because it hates humanity it can never acheive the full favor of the well. In the long one, one dimension's version of earth is a willing sacrifice for the good of the multiverse.
The Well is kind of a jerk.
3: The risk of failure
If Cole failed and was devoured, then the Hamidon would have enough of Cole's personality in him to become deadly. Hamidon's world devouring power with Cole's ambition? No one wants that.
I WANT to stop the Hamidon, but... We need to see.
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During their last fight. Remember the psychic shooty-beam stuff?|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Thank you kindly. A few points I want to comment on:
1. Cole made a deal with the Hamidon. Wait, what? When did that happen? |
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| What was this deal about? |
And then he made Praetoria. And then he found another source of humanity that could potentially tick off the Hamidon: us.
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| Bearded Smurf only really alluded to Cole being the Well's champion |
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| These are essentially about killing, what, a dozen people in cold blood? AND tossing an entire world into complete chaos? What was our moral stand on the Praetorian Invasion, again? Because it seems to me like Cole was right to be afraid of Primal Earth if we essentially destroyed his world just like he said we would. |
2) According to Prometheus -- 'Bearded Smurf' -- allowing the Well to make Tyrant the one and only being capable of even laying a finger on the Battalion is strategically unsound; the only way we would get enough power to fight the Battalion ourselves would be to beg some off of him, like what's happening with his lieutenants and the IDF. Prometheus doesn't want humanity's potential to be limited (quite that much) by the whims of any tyrant, be they Cole or even the Well itself. Hopes and dreams aside, that too would be strategically unsound given the context of the next imminent invasion.
3) War is hell. If you'd run just about any of the iTrials, you'd know...
a) ...that Seige and Nightstar came up with a plan to use mindwashed Resistance soldiers to run suicide attacks on the population to boost the regime's own popularity when they rushed in and saved the day; Mother Mayhem approves. The BAF trial occurs to stop the mindwashing and protect both Praetorian citizens and Resistance allies. Primal Earth's hand was forced.
b) ...that taking out Lambda Sector would greatly reduce the regime's military capabilities; a strike against it has fairly simple reasoning. This is part of Primal Earth's offensive.
c) ...that all of the crayons in Anti-Matter's box snap after he watches us roll over the IDF being led by Bobcat, his rival Neuron, Marauder, Seige, and his own creation Nightstar. He decides that the proper way to show Cole that he was the only one powerful enough to stop Primal Earth in the first place is to completely melt down and explode Keyes Island and everything above, below, and around it while beating on us at the same time. Even if the citizenry survived the horrifying matter/antimatter reaction, there would be nothing left to power the sonic fences and hold back the Devouring Earth. Primal Earth's hand was forced, but this event also gives us control of an important part of Praetoria.
d) ...that the Praetorian public has no reason to believe that Cole is a noble protector, since he never actually defeated the Hamidon and their entire survival depends on Cole making them completely docile and subservient to his will. They were also told little to nothing of Cole's planned invasion of Primal Earth and the intended slaughter of most of the metahuman population or other resistance (this bit is actually revealed in the 1-20 gold side story). They can keep hanging out under that guy, or they can throw their lot in with us. This is part of Primal Earth's offensive; it's always a good idea to have the backing local population. Their world might be getting chaotic, but it's not quite our fault, and we're trying to do something in their interest. We certainly didn't start the conflict. It started when Tyrant made a deal with Hamidon to enslave all humans everywhere.
e) ...that if there's any indication that Cole does not care about the free will of his people, it's the global mindwashing he allows Mother Mayhem to implement herself to try and keep his popularity up. You could consider this incidental to Primal Earth's offensive, but stopping it just because it's not right is good too.
f) ...that we didn't destroy his world. His world destroyed his world with nuclear fire, the Hamidon destroyed it again with the Devouring Earth, and he destroyed a good part of his own city with a Tartarus-fueled hissy-fit. I don't think ground-punching Nova Praetoria was in Primal Earth's game plan.
Sam, don't listen to the people in this thread pumping their fists and howling "YEAH, WE KILLED THOSE SUCKERS". Right now, the only confirmed signature fatalities are Seige (dominated by Metronome), Nightstar (probably, maybe someone gave iVY an upgrade with the leftovers), Malaise (trapped in Seer Network/Tilman's Mind after Tilman's defeat, his mind crinkled anyway after we beat him the first time in the trial), and Mother Mayhem (probably, but she didn't leave us much choice. Really!). Anyone else is either in hiding or in traction.
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| 4. I'm right up to the point in the Dark Astoria storyline where I realise Sister Solaris' top is transparent. |
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| Diabolique, Duncan, the Talons and so on just pad the story, to the point where Mot is barely in it at all at this point. |
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You might want to stop playing now, 'cause it´s about to get a lot more depressing, horrid and unfair|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
4. I'm right up to the point in the Dark Astoria storyline where I realise Sister Solaris' top is transparent. I mean... I'm right up to the point in the Dark Astoria storyline where I travel in time. I just took the first mission from there but I haven't entered it.
... It's still morbid, but it gives me the power to resist this depression, rather than just painting the world as horrid and unfair. |
@Redcap
ANARCHY = A Society that does not need government
114. Ahrouns do not appreciate my particular brand of humour, so I should stop bleaching bulls-eyes in their fur.
Obviously, we need a new trial where our heroes rescue innocent civilians from Praetoria while all this apocalyptic stuff is going down.
...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
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Definitely!|
Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
Imagine if the rest of CoH had been designed the same way as Praetoria: Villains could do hero work, but got the option at certain points to "double cross" their contact. Heroes could go undercover to work with villains, only to bust them at the very last moment. Etc.
Co-op content could have worked much better, this way. Maybe! |
With four different storylines in Primal Earth (Hero/Vigilante in Paragon City, Villain/Rogue in the Rogue Isles) as well as infiltrating/sabotage missions, the game would have been alot more interesting.
It's really a pity Praetoria's morality-changing system was never made into a full, stand-alone 1-50 experience. Oh well, back to simply grabbing random outdated contacts after doing bank missions...
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Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
Obviously, we need a new trial where our heroes rescue innocent civilians from Praetoria while all this apocalyptic stuff is going down.
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Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue
Sam, don't listen to the people in this thread pumping their fists and howling "YEAH, WE KILLED THOSE SUCKERS". Right now, the only confirmed signature fatalities are Seige (dominated by Metronome), Nightstar (probably, maybe someone gave iVY an upgrade with the leftovers), Malaise (trapped in Seer Network/Tilman's Mind after Tilman's defeat, his mind crinkled anyway after we beat him the first time in the trial), and Mother Mayhem (probably, but she didn't leave us much choice. Really!). Anyone else is either in hiding or in traction.
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To the best of my knowledge, as of issue 22, the Praetorian status is:
Confirmed dead: Mother Mayhem and Malaise (Minds of Mayhem trial), Diabolique (Dilemma Diabolique), Sister Serene (First Ward), Shadow Hunter (for a long time)
Confirmed alive: Anti-matter and Battle Maiden, Dominatrix, Tyrant, Chimera, Black Swan
Defeated but status undetermined: Marauder (Lambda Trial), Neuron and Bobcat (Tin Mage TF), Seige and Nighstar (Behavioral Adjustment Facility)
I don't believe any of the above have been confirmed dead or alive one way or the other. The status of some of the others may or may not change once I23 comes out, and the Devs have said they know who is alive and who is just captured, but I don't think the people I listed in the "Status Undetermined" list have definitively been given a current status. I'm curious as to where Zemblanity got some of his info (in particular re: Bobcat "killed by villains" one came from- I don't recall that during the couple of Tin Mage's I've run.)
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Posters have already listed those as pretty definitively dead, that's why I'm counting bodies. Some are just defeated, but some seem Statesman-level dead in storyline.|
Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
Keep in mind, that defeated only means dead if the game explicitly tells you so. Otherwise, we'd personally have killed Desdemona half a dozen times on our way to 50, and that clearly doesn't make sense with post-50 content.
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Originally Posted by Lord_Kalistoh
I was going to say the same thing. She was freed by the Malta Group in exchange of help developing their nano-tech.
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Originally Posted by NightErrant
During the Underground Trial, Vanessa DeVore finds that Cole never actually defeated the Hamidon, but negotiated a truce. If he kept a tight rein on Humanity, then the Devouring Earth would leave Praetoria alone.
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Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue
During their last fight. Remember the psychic shooty-beam stuff?
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Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue
War is hell. If you'd run just about any of the iTrials, you'd know...
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Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue
Sam, don't listen to the people in this thread pumping their fists and howling "YEAH, WE KILLED THOSE SUCKERS". Right now, the only confirmed signature fatalities are Seige (dominated by Metronome), Nightstar (probably, maybe someone gave iVY an upgrade with the leftovers), Malaise (trapped in Seer Network/Tilman's Mind after Tilman's defeat, his mind crinkled anyway after we beat him the first time in the trial), and Mother Mayhem (probably, but she didn't leave us much choice. Really!). Anyone else is either in hiding or in traction.
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Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue
The Talons aren't exactly 'Praetorian'; they are probably going to be showing up for a while until we have a nice polite sit-down with the Furies themselves. I'd expect this will happen around the time the Well starts bawling for help from his most loyal followers as a result of us kicking Tyrant's butt.
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Mot's story is complicated enough to merit as much content as it's given, which is why it kills me that we spend so much of it essentially doing grunt work that's only tangentially related to Mot. It's the equivalent of Mass Effect 3's "galaxy readiness" screen where we're supposed to be fighting this big fight, but we just spend most of our time NOT fighting it and doing side quests. I wouldn't mind so much if it didn't feel like it's taking away from the main story, but really... The main story is about MoT, the Circle and the Banished Pantheon, and there's not enough of the first, none of the second and not really much of the third. I'd trade the Talos for the Circle, is what I'm saying.
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Originally Posted by Nos482
You might want to stop playing now, 'cause it´s about to get a lot more depressing, horrid and unfair
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Playing that one mission against an army of enemies alone was... An experience. That kind of sucked, but I chose to go it alone. Not sure if I want to do it again, but I might. Maybe with a level shift, though.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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One thing I will say, vis a vis Dark Astoria, is that the old arc "The Scroll of Tielekku" really should be "required reading" before going in there. I just happened to be playing through it last night while leveling up a character for a Beta transfer, and was surprised to see how well it meshes with everything. Surprised, because it had been so long since I'd run it, that I'd nearly forgotten how it set all of the stuff with Mot and the Banished Pantheon fit. (Slightly OT, I know, but I was just reminded of it.)
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It's a sign that the writers are FINALLY starting to try and fit new content in with old content without contradicting established canon for no reason. I was surprised that Dark Astoria also seems to be consistent with the SSAs, as well, since that ritual Wade mentions was always on my mind over there. I even spotted a few calls to Lughebu among the Banished Pantheon chatter, which pleases me greatly since it means Mot hasn't superseded the entire BP mythos and taken on the role of lead god. On the contrary, his ascension is the Pantheon's path back into the physical world, and I LOVE consistent storytelling! |
Originally Posted by Zombieluvr
One thing I will say, vis a vis Dark Astoria, is that the old arc "The Scroll of Tielekku" really should be "required reading" before going in there. I just happened to be playing through it last night while leveling up a character for a Beta transfer, and was surprised to see how well it meshes with everything. Surprised, because it had been so long since I'd run it, that I'd nearly forgotten how it set all of the stuff with Mot and the Banished Pantheon fit. (Slightly OT, I know, but I was just reminded of it.)
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*edit*
Does anyone know why Mot has a Hydralisk head atop his cemetery?
Or why it was called Moth Cemetery - with an H - for so long?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Cole is the one who set up the conspiracy in the first place. Cole and Hamidon were evenly matched, but neither could quite defeat the other, so Cole made a pact.
All Hamidon agreed to do was not to destroy a few hundred square miles of land as long as Humanity stayed there and didn't **** anything up.
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Because he got tired of having Tyrant rip up his tentacles. Under Tyrant's lead, the Praetorian Guard and their allies and Devouring Earth were fighting to a stalemate. It was Tyrant who managed to convince Hamidon to form the initial truce under the guise of being defeated, and that negotiation, according to Prometheus, was a display of power that got the Well's attention focused on Cole in the first place.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Why does the Hamidon care about keeping people in check.
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| What does he get out of making an effective conspiracy when he seems like he could have simply wiped them all out? |
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| No. What are you referring to? |
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| The creature quickly healed the injury and responded by projecting a tangible beam of psychic energy at Cole, rendering him limp and helpless. A battle of wills ensued, and the world held its collective breath. |
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| "War is hell" is precisely the kind of thematic I really don't care much for. |
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| The Talons are specifically said to have followed Dee Dee from Praetoria, though I agree that they're not a Praetorian-specific faction. They are, however, one of those questionable decisions that came out of Praetoria's concept gallery that I can really do without. And, honestly, they have no real sway over the plot as they have no real stake in the fate of Mot. |
The Talons are the reason why Mot's power is increasing more rapidly than expected during the course of the arcs. If you keep playing you'll find out just how much of an effect the Talons' work had.
Makes you wonder where the Furies are in all of this, saying 'Hey, you idiots, don't empower the eldritch death monster.' Marcus' restaurant doesn't need that much tending, even if he isn't around any more.
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| Mot's story is complicated enough to merit as much content as it's given, which is why it kills me that we spend so much of it essentially doing grunt work that's only tangentially related to Mot. |
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| Doesn't seem like it, really. I'm mid-way through the... Letter-writer's story arc, and Mot has already om-nom-nommed a bunch of important people, but it's pretty evident that some or all of those can be rescued. |
61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)
Actually, that's something I was thinking about the other day.
If Cole was truly the Well's Champion and had amassed all this power and all this tech what exactly was stopping him from turning it onto the Hamidon and the Devouring Earth? The praetorians can create massive plans to neutralize super powers and sterilize Primal earth but can't do anything against the Devouring Earth?
My -hope- is that future Praetorian content will show just how dead to rights scary the Devouring Earth and the Praetorian Hamidon are, but then that also presents a further question of why, if the Hamidon has tapped into the powers of an Incarnate in his transformation, why -he- wasn't made the Champion of the Well since he clearly is still more powerful than Cole.
Edit: And I do get that Cole was made the Champion from his brokering of the deal between Hamidon and Praetoria. But that still seems like a flimsy excuse if, this entire time, the Hamidon is still -smash you into paste- stronger than Cole.