I like the thousands and thousands of reward merits I have. To each their own.
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A token is not $15. This is terribly flawed logic.|
Originally Posted by VKhaun
Which are a terrible way to use tokens.
IIRC it's 5 packs for 1 token. A token is aprox $15, and a super pack is aprox $1. You're getting aprox a 3:1 loss on your money. :/ |
A token is a free bonus which you get in tandem with every $15 you spend.
The value of 5 super packs is head and shoulders over the other consumable purchases, and there's nothing else to do with the excess tokens apart from the quarter-yearly costume releases.
On topic: I am a T9 VIP and fully endorse the immediate selling of Celestial Armor set in the Market once it retires from the T9 VIP slot.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
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I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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Oh bollocks.|
Originally Posted by VKhaun
Which are a terrible way to use tokens.
IIRC it's 5 packs for 1 token. A token is aprox $15, and a super pack is aprox $1. You're getting aprox a 3:1 loss on your money. :/ |
One, a token is not worth $15. You can't buy tokens directly, they come as a bonus when you buy $15 worth of points (which are then used for store items) or a month of subscription time (which is used for, um, a month of subscription time). If you're going to claim the token itself is worth $15, that means you're claiming the month of subscription or the 1320 points you're actually buying is worth $0, which is obviously incorrect. $5 is a reasonable value for a token, if you must attach worth to it.
Two, true enough $5 worth of super packs is lower on a dollar for dollar basis than the other Tier 9 options, though not wildly so:
8 Windfalls: $9
8 XP Boosters: $9
8 Enhancement Unslotters: $9
25 Enhancement Boosters: $6.25
1/3 of a VIP costume pack (for which $15 is a reasonable price, but $10 if you're stingy): $5 (or $3.33)
But that leads into three: The actual value of what you get out of a Super Pack is worth far more than $5. I worked it out in a previous Super Pack thread and you get something like $20-25 worth of consumables out of 5 Super Packs, and that's not counting ATOs, Catalysts, and reward merits which don't have an obvious per-unit cost.
If you lean heavily on Windfalls or XP Boosters or Unslotters, then you'll get a lot of value out of just those repeatables. But if you use all the consumables on a regular basis, Super Packs are ridiculously valuable for the price. Not to mention you can't exactly trade those Windfalls in for reward merits or ATOs.
That all said, I wouldn't have a problem with putting old Tier 9 costume sets into Super Packs. It'd be a good way to keep them in circulation.
(Seriously, I love Windfalls but $9 for 8? They are not that valuable.)
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
If you buy trading cards that come with bubble gum, you spent $1 and got ten cards, and one piece of bubble gum. Together* they are, collectively, worth $1. You can't ask the guy to tear the packs open and give you the gum for a dime because you think it's 'a reasonable amount'. You can't call the gum or the cards worth zero because you're buying it to get the other part.
A pack of cards, with gum, is $1.
Needless side debate though, I think we agree on the what and why, of adding T9 costumes to super packs.
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Bill, you certainly get whimsical when you deploy the smiling kitteh avatar. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
There. This has been quoted.
Glad to be of service. |
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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It's rather difficult to quote and link things said on a uStream, things said in Beta chat, things said in Q&A sessions at the Player Summit, etc.
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Originally Posted by Reppu
If someone claims something is confirmed as a developer decision, yes. I do demand they quote it if only because things like this lead to rather interesting reactions.
That and I'm lazy. |
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
What about the characters that have parts or whole costumes already of this. Will it disappear and leave us with nothing but our smiles? ( Probably the costume will stay but if we bought before with Tier 9 points we should get to keep it in our line up like the Phoenix wings. Or I would hope so.)
Now called Madame Shayla:
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Goddess of Justice Tanker Incarnate (Hero) Collen Colt Incarnate (Bane Hero), Lady Kitten (Hero) Jen Titanium Mage (Hero and one time Villain) and my first Character to level 50 Shayla Master Mind (Villain)
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Once you've unlocked it, you'll always have access to it, even on newcharacters and such.
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Originally Posted by ShaylaDominatrix
What about the characters that have parts or whole costumes already of this. Will it disappear and leave us with nothing but our smiles? ( Probably the costume will stay but if we bought before with Tier 9 points we should get to keep it in our line up like the Phoenix wings. Or I would hope so.)
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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This is what worries me. If we are not given a timeline other than "eventually, really, we promise" what's to stop Paragon Studios from just continuing to entice us with new, different shiny things instead of giving back the opportunity to the people who couldn't get it the first time? As I see it they could:|
Originally Posted by Sapphic_Neko
Celestial armor is getting phased out with issue 23 to make room for the mecha set.
Celeastial armor will come back on a recurring schedule, but i don't think even paragon studios knows when they'll do that  |
1) Keep their word, and cycle old things back in. Some players already have it, but some do not, and are happy to be given the chance. Additional money may be spent by those players who did not have tier 9 VIP access or near enough to it that they might be tempted to buy more points the first time.
2) Not keep their word, and introduce new sets every time. Nobody has the new sets, so everyone has a new shiny costume to get excited over. Pool of potential customers expands to 100% of people with tier 9 VIP access or nearing tier 9 VIP access.
Now, I know we all want Paragon Studios to be trustworthy, but the fact remains that the promise we were given has all the potential to be empty with its complete lack of numbers. If we'd been told "Each costume set will return to tier 9 for one month each year," even without being told which month, I'd be less paranoid. All I want is a little more solid assurance that yes, they really will be back, in a form that Paragon Studios can be held to.
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You realize that in no way justifies saying the token itself is worth $15, right?
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Originally Posted by VKhaun
If you buy trading cards that come with bubble gum, you spent $1 and got ten cards, and one piece of bubble gum. Together* they are, collectively, worth $1. You can't ask the guy to tear the packs open and give you the gum for a dime because you think it's 'a reasonable amount'. You can't call the gum or the cards worth zero because you're buying it to get the other part.
A pack of cards, with gum, is $1. |
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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Can you get one without paying aprox $15?|
Originally Posted by Bosstone
You realize that in no way justifies saying the token itself is worth $15, right?
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No. You have to buy the pack of cards to get the gum.
If you want to buy super packs with tokens, they are $5/pop.
Semantics like 'worth' are irrelevant, and I'm not that easily baited.
I could also include tokens to get to T8... but that would be algebra!
DON'T MAKE ME GO ALGEBRAIC ON YOUR PUNK BOSS ***
You're buying a pack of cards to get the gum? wtf?
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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So you'll just make stuff up then? Good to know.
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Originally Posted by VKhaun
Can you get one without paying aprox $15?
No. You have to buy the pack of cards to get the gum. If you want to buy super packs with tokens, they are $5/pop. Semantics like 'worth' are irrelevant, and I'm not that easily baited. |
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
Are there any pix yet of any of the costume sets allegedly appearing in i23? I'd be interested in seeing this Mecha set, although from the sounds of it I have one toon who would be truly thematically correct for it.
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There were some that Zwil posted, but then took down and asked others not to repost saying that changes needed to be made. Some people have posted pics of other mechs in there that they say look similar to the preview that was taken down.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Are there any pix yet of any of the costume sets allegedly appearing in i23? I'd be interested in seeing this Mecha set, although from the sounds of it I have one toon who would be truly thematically correct for it.
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Link:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=287850
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Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
You're buying a pack of cards to get the gum? wtf?
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Eh, meh.... not big on the Gundam look myself, but will keep hoping for pix of the other upcoming costumes later on. Thanks for the link tho.
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Originally Posted by VKhaun
There were some that Zwil posted, but then took down and asked others not to repost saying that changes needed to be made. Some people have posted pics of other mechs in there that they say look similar to the preview that was taken down.
Link: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=287850 |
In regards to putting the old tier 9 sets into the store once they're rotated out, what's wrong with just putting them in the store for VIPs only? Why do they have to go into super packs? Because I, for one, would be extraordinarily pissed off if I would have to buy a bunch of super packs to get the celestial pieces. Putting yet more exclusive stuff into super packs does nothing for those of us who disagree with the whole super pack idea in the first place. And as I'm sure everyone remembers from all the arguments back when they were introduced, there are quite a few of us.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
I really don't want them in the super packs, unless the pack can recognize that I already have them and remove them from the reward table. Which is how it currently works for the elemental set.
I would rather any costumes put in super packs be ones that I don't have already. I found it exciting to buy the packs to get the costumes.
Also as a t9 vet, there really was nothing of more value to spend my tokens on than super packs. At one point I had 12k reward merits, 200+ XP boosters, 200+ experienced powers, and the list goes on of the cool stuff I have that I can pull from because of super packs.
Note: I am however fine with them just out right selling those costumes in the store when they are rotated out.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
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Zwillinger didn't leak the pictures... Clockwork 01 did.
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Originally Posted by VKhaun
There were some that Zwil posted, but then took down and asked others not to repost saying that changes needed to be made.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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The whole point of a vet reward system is to reward people for being veterans. Having the highest (longest period of time) reward dropped down to something anyone could buy trivializes the nature of the reward and makes mid-tier costume sets that can't be bought MORE RARE than high tier ones.|
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
...what's wrong with just putting them in the store for VIPs only?
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Super packs is just a suggested happy medium between the exclusive nature of a T9 reward that's been phased out, and the total availability of a set dropped into the store.
Your suggestion to make it a VIP-available-only bought set is as good as any other suggestion, I'm not saying you're 'wrong', but I do disagree with it for the above reasons that still hold true even if it's VIP-only.
The other side of the argument that I think is 'wrong' is saying that getting the new set first/early is the reward, rather than the set itself. I think it's clear that the vet reward system was always meant to provide exclusive access to costume parts for those who had been with the game, and we already compromise that by selling tokens for paragon points.
Clockwork01 posted a lot of pictures, but Zwillinger had to take them down.
If it has fixed wings, I might buy that category for my Robot woman, she would like those.
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The problem I have with this is that having it in super packs isn't actually any more *exclusive* than having it in the store - either way it's still available to the same set of people. The only difference is that in the super pack case it's held hostage to the RNG and will (on average) cost more points.|
Originally Posted by VKhaun
Super packs is just a suggested happy medium between the exclusive nature of a T9 reward that's been phased out, and the total availability of a set dropped into the store.
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| The other side of the argument that I think is 'wrong' is saying that getting the new set first/early is the reward, rather than the set itself. I think it's clear that the vet reward system was always meant to provide exclusive access to costume parts for those who had been with the game, and we already compromise that by selling tokens for paragon points. |
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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Contradiction. The argument to your first sentence, is your second sentence.|
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
The problem I have with this is that having it in super packs isn't actually any more *exclusive* than having it in the store - either way it's still available to the same set of people. The only difference is that in the super pack case it's held hostage to the RNG and will (on average) cost more points.
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Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
I agree that it's fairly obvious that the *vet reward* system was meant to provide exclusive access to stuff. However, the paragon rewards program isn't the old vet rewards system, and I don't think you can necessarily assume that that's still the intended purpose given the changes that have taken place. As you note, you *can* buy tokens now, so the idea of exclusivity is already heavily dented. I don't know if you can definitely say if the intent is *not* to have exclusive things, but I don't think you can be sure that it *is* their intent either since I don't think the devs have said either way what their purpose actually is.
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My first though is that I would rather T9 sets just stayed T9, but in fairness and in acceptance of what has already been changed, I must acknowledge that the game is a bit old already, and that's a lot of tokens to go through for a new player. I'm not sure T9 really has it's place anymore. I feel super packs would be an acceptable compromise for the reasons above. Available, but still exclusive to a degree. Not a statement or demand, just opinion and feedback.
I would expect to see them added to Super Packs. I have no justification, other than that thinking of it from their point of view it makes the most sense.
Going straight from T9 exclusive to 'another set in the store' doesn't really do the T9 justice. Mid tier sets like Samurai armor would be rarer than celestial if every freemium with two tokens could grab a celestial part a la cart.
Having to buy super packs to MAYBE get a costume piece is not a good condition for a set to exist in because it is very exclusive. Elemental order is only for those who have purchased quite a few super packs with points.
At the same time, they are separately exclusive. T9 is available to those who have purchased zero superpacks, and super packs are still available to the aformentioned T2 freemium. Further, a T9 could still buy super packs without redundancy because -as seen with Elemental Order- it rules the pieces out that they already have.
Thus, super packs. Still exclusive to a degree, but available to all if they really love the set and want to gamble for it, and the super packs need more content anyway.
My 2¢.
IMHO.
IIRC it's 5 packs for 1 token.
A token is aprox $15, and a super pack is aprox $1.
You're getting aprox a 3:1 loss on your money. :/
One more reason for adding old T9's to Super Packs.
Looking at the above from that direction, a T9 does not need incentive to buy super packs with temp powers that are redundant with vet rewards at a monetary loss. It makes sense to add more content to those that is also not interesting to a T9, and more interesting to low tiers.
At first this sounds backwards -NOT interesting to a customer?- but it sets up the loop already discussed here, that you can make content SPECIFICALLY for your T9 who are a group that want, and should get, special sets and put them IN the T9 rotating category and as you rotate them out, they go in super packs. You are satisfying both ends of the spectrum and feeding two areas with one development cycle without offending anyone! The more sets you add to power packs, the more rare any individual part gets, so T9 retains some exclusivity.
My 2¢.
IMHO.