Joss Whedon thinks Buffy could beat the Black Widow
By
Aneko,
Posted on: 2012-04-11 04:46 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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Quite so. In fact, Buffy's strike need not be all that well placed, or targeted at a vital nerve cluster or pressure point. Really just anywhere in the general face area would probably do it.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
How could you really be "firmly" in either camp with such a vague, easily reversable statement like this?
One could very easily say a well-placed strike to a vital nerve cluster or pressure point and Black Widow is down for the count... |
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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Also, the question was "in a fight between Buffy and Black Widow, who do you think would win?" The question is premised on the assumption there was an actual physical fight. The question was not "who has the best chance of assassinating the other between Buffy and Black Widow?" Whedon's answer was obviously playful, but its also a completely reasonable assumption that Buffy would win an actual fight against a non-supernaturally powerful foe most of the time.|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Buffy's just would just pop up behind Widow as she's peering through the scope and quip something Buffyish. As for not hearing a sniper shot, she has better danger sense than Spiderman.
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The way Whedon envisioned the fight, Buffy had the huge physical advantage, able to overcome any situational tactical advantage Black Widow might attempt to gain. Black Widow had more of the killer instinct, and would have sought to terminate Buffy when she wasn't on her guard. But what finally undoes Widow is that she's unfamiliar with the supernatural physique of Buffy, and gets unlucky with that.
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He did open this can of worms by bringing in the poisoned salad, though.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The question was not "who has the best chance of assassinating the other between Buffy and Black Widow?"
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
Raphael!
Also, this.
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It's a fight, not a sniper challenge. Sure, if 'win' depends on killing the opponent that may change things, but if it's 'knock 'em out', kinda have to go with the chick that can use a steel I-beam as a bat.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Also, the question was "in a fight between Buffy and Black Widow, who do you think would win?" The question is premised on the assumption there was an actual physical fight. The question was not "who has the best chance of assassinating the other between Buffy and Black Widow?" Whedon's answer was obviously playful, but its also a completely reasonable assumption that Buffy would win an actual fight against a non-supernaturally powerful foe most of the time.
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@Starflier
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Actually, I think he was deliberately echoing this discussion. His answer, boiled down, is basically of course Buffy would win in an actual fight, but Black Widow would have known that and probably try to kill Buffy in some other way. That doesn't mean that other way would necessarily work, though.|
Originally Posted by Aneko
He did open this can of worms by bringing in the poisoned salad, though.
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Its important to note as well that Whedon resolved the fight in a way that kept both combatants alive. If Black Widow is an assassin, she's willing to kill. Buffy is normally not willing to kill humans. So the only likely way they both end up alive is if Buffy ultimately wins the fight, barely.
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Batman beat a Superman who was recovering from a tactical nuke who didn't really WANT to win.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Nor would I assume she would succeed but as she is an assassin I would presume she is good at making sure she can catch a target unawares
 In a hand to hand fight it would come down to Widow's greater experience and training vs the Slayer. David beat Goliath Batman defeated Superman (albeit Batman had YEARS to prep in case they ever fought) Luke blew up the Death Star Anakin blew up the Droid Army Control Station in Ep 1 Wedge+Lando blew up Death Star 2 Skill, training, and yes even luck (or the Force ) can trump power. Granted that doesn't always happen of course. |
If Superman had wanted to win, he could have snatched Batman at super speed and there would have been nothing Batman could have done about it. (And for crying out loud, Batman's suit was PLUGGED into a lamp socket! Bizarro should have been able to figure that one out!)
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Clearly, it depends on whose book/show/movie the fight happens in. If it's in Avengers media, Black Widow wins. If it's in a Buffy property, Buffy wins.
If it's in an Avengers property written by Joss then Joss evidently thinks Buffy would win, but first he'd have to get Marvel approval to have that happen... 
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Widow may have more training than Buffy, but she hasn't had to use it every night since she was 16 in fights to the death with multiple supernatural beings.
Buffy has had more combat experience.
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To be fair, though, BW is over 70 years old.
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Originally Posted by Knight_Marshal
Widow may have more training than Buffy, but she hasn't had to use it every night since she was 16 in fights to the death with multiple supernatural beings.
Buffy has had more combat experience. |
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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Does she know how to use her walker in combat?
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Originally Posted by Aneko
To be fair, though, BW is over 70 years old.
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Yes. You're right. Well, you're wrong actually. Tt depends on the character in this instance. I'd say Spidey could dodge it for sure.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Two words (well, two more): PLOT ARMOR
And guys, I don't care how great you think Buffy is. NOBODY dodges a supersonic round fired from a mile or more out. They're not faster than sound and their head winds up like a watermelon at a Gallagher show before a single sound is heard. |
However, what you seem to not realize, is this was a fight...Buffy vs Widow. Snipe at range when Buffy is shopping for that cute little sun dress to really turn Angel and Spike on, is not a fight.
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What's funny is making an (Archie Comic) Hyper Sonic vs. anyone thread and see people try to make serious arguments.|
Originally Posted by Quasadu
When I was in college some of the gamers I hung out with would have a weekly "who would win" night - it was basically like a debate club where each debater was assigned a side they had to argue, and they had a week to research and develop their argument.
Yeah, I hung out with HUGE nerds. And it was great. |
Even Superboy Prime wouldn't last against that cheating *******.
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Okay, see, that's just not as funny anymore 'cuz he's no longer around.....|
Originally Posted by Starflier
Raphael!
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Anyone with Spiderman's danger sense could practically stroll out of the path of a bullet fired from a mile away. Even supersonic sniper bullets take about two seconds to traverse a mile of distance. Stephen Hawking could dodge that.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I'd say Spidey could dodge it for sure.
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You can't *hear* the bullet or the initial firing of the bullet before a supersonic bullet arrives, but anything with actual warning as the shot is fired would have lots of time to get out of the path of an extreme range sniper bullet.
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Aren't we all missiing the comic book point here?
They're both heroes, so would fight for a while before realising they were on the same team and then working together to defeat The Master and Doctor Doom who have teamed up to end the world
I'd still put my money on Buffy in a fist fight though. 
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It looks like there's only one way to settle this. Put Sarah Michelle Gellar and Scarlett Johansson in bikini's and let them fight it out in a ring of Jello.
out of jello...but there's plenty of baby oil and rice pudding to use
Of course this man could beat them both
What someone had to throw in the "A new challenger approaches".
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Because...|
Originally Posted by Lothic
How could you really be "firmly" in either camp with such a vague, easily reversable statement like this?
One could very easily say a well-placed strike to a vital nerve cluster or pressure point and Black Widow is down for the count... |
A) It is a belief, not a statement of fact, and
2) I believe more in Widow's abilities and experience as a highly trained spy who fights highly trained soldiers and super beings than Buffy's abilities and experience as a super-strong, but self-trained slayer who gets into what amounts to street fights, albeit with supernatural beings, most of the time. I doubt Buffy could point out a nerve cluster, let alone know how to strike one in such a way as to paralyze her opponent.
Again, we see "ordinary" heroes (Batman, Capt. America, Nightwing, Daredevil, etc. take on foes far above their own level of power, and often far above Buffy's level of power and triumph due to superior wits, training or conditioning. I am a HUGE Buffy fan, but I honestly think Black Widow would best her.
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Giles gets no respect.
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Originally Posted by mousedroid
a super-strong, but self-trained slayer
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
I think we might underestimating Buffy's skill level. We're making the Batman-Superman comparison when really it's more like Batman-Deathstroke. At the end of the day, even though I would say Batman is all-around more skilled than Deathstroke, the skill level discrepancy isn't great enough that it prevents Deathstroke from overcoming it with his greater physical abilities.
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Of course not.|
Originally Posted by Aneko
Giles gets no respect.
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He hangs around cemetaries at night with 16 year old girls. His picture should be hanging up in the post office with the tag, "Have you seen this man?".
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It's quite possible that Black Widow could point out exact nerve clusters where Buffy couldn't. I'd simply argue that knowledge of nerve clusters is relatively unimportant when you have the strength and agility to easily shatter the bones under those clusters. If Buffy ever had the need to just "paralyze" someone she could always get Willow to cast a spell for that. |
Originally Posted by mousedroid
I doubt Buffy could point out a nerve cluster, let alone know how to strike one in such a way as to paralyze her opponent.
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To be clear I don't think it would be impossible for Black Widow to beat Buffy. I simply would -never- bet that way...
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We do see that! And many people are often left saying "Batman won due to plot armor!" |
Originally Posted by mousedroid
Because...
A) It is a belief, not a statement of fact, and 2) I believe more in Widow's abilities and experience as a highly trained spy who fights highly trained soldiers and super beings than Buffy's abilities and experience as a super-strong, but self-trained slayer who gets into what amounts to street fights, albeit with supernatural beings, most of the time. I doubt Buffy could point out a nerve cluster, let alone know how to strike one in such a way as to paralyze her opponent. Again, we see "ordinary" heroes (Batman, Capt. America, Nightwing, Daredevil, etc. take on foes far above their own level of power, and often far above Buffy's level of power and triumph due to superior wits, training or conditioning. I am a HUGE Buffy fan, but I honestly think Black Widow would best her. |
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One could very easily say a well-placed strike to a vital nerve cluster or pressure point and Black Widow is down for the count...
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