Joss Whedon thinks Buffy could beat the Black Widow
By
Aneko,
Posted on: 2012-04-11 04:46 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
Soooooo, Lothic. If Buffy is essentially Wonder Woman, then I guess you have seen her on TV in the last 30 years. 
/runs out of thread ducking.
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Nor would I assume she would succeed but as she is an assassin I would presume she is good at making sure she can catch a target unawares |
Originally Posted by Lothic
I suppose the argument is boiling down to whether Black Widow is going to have a chance to snipe Buffy or not. Even there I would not automatically assume Black Widow would succeed. *shrugs*
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In a hand to hand fight it would come down to Widow's greater experience and training vs the Slayer.
David beat Goliath
Batman defeated Superman (albeit Batman had YEARS to prep in case they ever fought)
Luke blew up the Death Star
Anakin blew up the Droid Army Control Station in Ep 1
Wedge+Lando blew up Death Star 2
Skill, training, and yes even luck (or the Force
) can trump power. Granted that doesn't always happen of course.
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The question isn't "who might win if they get lucky enough?" - because the answer to that is "anybody."|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Nor would I assume she would succeed but as she is an assassin I would presume she is good at making sure she can catch a target unawares
In a hand to hand fight it would come down to Widow's greater experience and training vs the Slayer. David beat Goliath Batman defeated Superman (albeit Batman had YEARS to prep in case they ever fought) Luke blew up the Death Star Anakin blew up the Droid Army Control Station in Ep 1 Wedge+Lando blew up Death Star 2 Skill, training, and yes even luck (or the Force ) can trump power. Granted that doesn't always happen of course. |
The question is "who would win?" which implies "who is the most likely to win?" And the answer to that is Buffy, for reasons already given.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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Ha! I suppose I did become one of Wonder Woman's loudest Devil's Advocates in this forum. |
Originally Posted by MentalMaden
Soooooo, Lothic. If Buffy is essentially Wonder Woman, then I guess you have seen her on TV in the last 30 years.
/runs out of thread ducking. |
For what it's worth I did like Buffy but I never quite saw her as a direct "TV show equivalent" to Wonder Woman just for the simple fact that she was always presented more as a "teenager" than a "woman" in the mature adult sense. If anything Buffy was probably more correctly analogous to Supergirl than Wonder Woman character-wise if not strictly power-wise.
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Two words (well, two more): PLOT ARMOR|
Originally Posted by Lothic
As cute as this scenario is I'd just have to ask why the vampires haven't ever tried to do this.
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And guys, I don't care how great you think Buffy is. NOBODY dodges a supersonic round fired from a mile or more out. They're not faster than sound and their head winds up like a watermelon at a Gallagher show before a single sound is heard.
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Sorry, but she's not going to dodge a sniper round. She'll never see the sniper, and will be dead before the sound reaches her.
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Originally Posted by Chyll
Buffy: So where's this...
*HEADS..* *dodge* Natasha: Target neut.. *punch caves in face* (pretty sure she's been shot at before... so *ho hum*) |
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Again, the question is about who would win in a fight. Not in a scenario that you set up to favor one opponent over another.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Sorry, but she's not going to dodge a sniper round. She'll never see the sniper, and will be dead before the sound reaches her.
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Edit: And as Cap'n Foamy pointed out, if we're going to say Black Widow can get the jump as a sniper, we have to also allow the possibility that Buffy gets the jump with a shoulder mounted rocket launcher.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Two words (well, two more): PLOT ARMOR
And guys, I don't care how great you think Buffy is. NOBODY dodges a supersonic round fired from a mile or more out. They're not faster than sound and their head winds up like a watermelon at a Gallagher show before a single sound is heard. |
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Sorry, but she's not going to dodge a sniper round. She'll never see the sniper, and will be dead before the sound reaches her.
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Originally Posted by Lucky666
Buffy has been rezzed 2 times for the record. First time master drowned her and Xander used CPR to revive her. Second time Glory opened a hell portal and to close it Buffy jumped in so Dawn wouldn't have to. Three times if you count when Cordelia wished them into a parallel universe and Master snapped her neck there.
Buffy would so win, Warren already tried to shoot her point blank with a magically enchanted bullet and still failed(but did manage to kill Tara). |
You know what happens when you try to use CPU/rescue breathing on someone who's taken a .338 or .50 sniper round to the head from a kilometer away?
Take a bulb siphon and fill it with water.
Then put it down on the floor.
Then jump on it.
Pretty much that.
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Why do you assume Widow is going to be stupid enough to engage in hand-to-hand with someone who's demonstrating superhuman strength and speed by fighting things with superhuman strength and speed?|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Yes, but if Buffy is going to have to be logically vulnerable to sniper-fire then Black Widow is going to have to be logically inferior in hand-to-hand combat against an opponent who's strength and agility is enhanced by supernatural-based powers. If Black Widow can't shoot Buffy at a distance she is going to be pounded into dogfood 99 times out of a 100 against Buffy.
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A few weeks of patience and one bullet. That's all that's required.
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We get it.
You loves your Widow.
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Why do you assume that Buffy would never be able to get the drop on Black Widow and crush her into a pulp before she could squeeze a trigger?|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Why do you assume Widow is going to be stupid enough to engage in hand-to-hand with someone who's demonstrating superhuman strength and speed by fighting things with superhuman strength and speed?
A few weeks of patience and one bullet. That's all that's required. |
That, or the bazooka thing.
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Buffy's actress is more attractive. <.<
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While Widow is being patient and waiting for that one clean shot, Buffy is getting some magical help from Willow to protect her from sniper fire... |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Why do you assume Widow is going to be stupid enough to engage in hand-to-hand with someone who's demonstrating superhuman strength and speed by fighting things with superhuman strength and speed?
A few weeks of patience and one bullet. That's all that's required. |
"Time to plan" favors Buffy a lot more than it does Black Widow, too.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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Nobody ever said that Widow was going to intentionally engage in hand to hand combat. She could try and stay out of it, but Buffy has, as noted, supernatural speed and agility.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Why do you assume Widow is going to be stupid enough to engage in hand-to-hand with someone who's demonstrating superhuman strength and speed by fighting things with superhuman strength and speed?
A few weeks of patience and one bullet. That's all that's required. |
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Originally Posted by Aneko
Buffy's actress is more attractive. <.<
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Ah, a "who'd win" thread. This is how I know I'm reading a comics forum.
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When I was in college some of the gamers I hung out with would have a weekly "who would win" night - it was basically like a debate club where each debater was assigned a side they had to argue, and they had a week to research and develop their argument. |
Originally Posted by Megajoule
Ah, a "who'd win" thread. This is how I know I'm reading a comics forum.
|
Yeah, I hung out with HUGE nerds. And it was great.
@Quasadu
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Clothing smothing. It'd all get ripped in just the right places anyways.|
Originally Posted by VoodooCompany
How much clothing are we talking about..........?
>.> |
The real question is...jello, mud, or baby oil?
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The character's history?|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Why do you assume Widow is going to be stupid enough to engage in hand-to-hand with someone who's demonstrating superhuman strength and speed by fighting things with superhuman strength and speed?
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I'm no expert on Black Widow lore, but I would have to think that she has faced many a foe posessing superhuman strength and/or speed in her nearly 50 year career. And I sincerely doubt that her appearances mainly consisted of her waiting patiently on a rooftop for her foes to appear so she could shoot them.
I am firmly in the Black Widow would win camp. A well-placed strike to a vital nerve cluster or pressure point and Buffy is down for the count.
That said, these are fictional characters, and Joss Whedon is a writer. If a writer writes a story that has one fictional character beating another, who are we to say he is wrong? At least with respect to two fairly evenly-matched characters. I mean we're not talking Dark Phoenix vs. Robin.
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I think it is evident that the discussion is on a hand-to-hand combat. It makes no sense to discuss who would win in a fight if one of the "fighters" (huh?) has access to a Big Freaking Gun or a Mecha armour...
As Joss Whedon himself explains in the OP link:
"Buffy would go easy at first, but as soon as Natasha popped her with a Widow Sting, she’d start bringing some slayer brawn to the fray,” he told Matheson. “Natasha’s fast, but a couple of good connects and she’s wobbling, possibly something broken — she whips out her glock and now Buffy’s dodging — right where Natasha wants her. Natasha shoots the cable holding the steel barrels and they tumble onto Buffy, nearly burying her — Buffy just arcs out of the way, grabbing the splintered cable and swinging directly onto Natasha, a bullet grazing her cheek as her feet land hard on the Russian’s shoulders, sending her back flat — crack! — on the floor, Buffy wrenching the gun away and tossing it, fist ready for the final strike. Natasha, struggling to stay conscious, says the fight’s over. Buffy agrees, but Natasha explains: She poisoned Buffy hours ago. That waitress that brought her salad …? Natasha smiles. The poison is dormant — ’til it’s activated by adrenaline. Buffy’s eyes narrow. ‘Too bad I didn’t use any.’ Wham! Natasha’s out for the count, and Buffy’s heading — slowly — to Willow for a mystical cleanse."
I don't mind one or the other winning, I like both, but I don't see the point of using arguments as "but if she had a ballistic missile..." to a hand-to-hand combat discussion. It is like discussing who wins in a fight with Superman, and saying "whoever brings kryptonite".
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When Buffy fights someone with major tech and some serious hardware well she does what a slayer does best
Rips out their heart
and turn their bullets to nothing
If we are assuming Widow can set of for a sniper shot then we also have to assume Buffy can set up and have Willow imbue the power of every slayer ever into Buffy.
XD
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Why would you assume Buffy would be stupid enough to give a sniper any chance at a long-range shot?
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Why do you assume Widow is going to be stupid enough to engage in hand-to-hand with someone who's demonstrating superhuman strength and speed by fighting things with superhuman strength and speed?
A few weeks of patience and one bullet. That's all that's required. |
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Buffy's just would just pop up behind Widow as she's peering through the scope and quip something Buffyish. As for not hearing a sniper shot, she has better danger sense than Spiderman.
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