Quote:
It's not a 'pause'. You can fix the chain with out a pause, you just need to know how to do it.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Well, I am curious to how StJ performs when played intelligently. Pausing to wait for AS and CU to synch back up when you miss. That has me curious how it will play out on the DPS.
Though, I'm less likely to care about the use of incarnate powers in use, where others are all "OMG SEE THIS WITH INCARNATES" Note, this doesn't mean no IO use, but Incarnate level is silly to worry about as Incarnate level puts non incarnate content to shame, as was it's intention. |
Additionally, your 'Incarnate powers shouldn't matter!' uh... doesn't really apply. Considering the bonuses from incarnate powers do not vary by any significant degree between power sets... eh, not arguing this. Moot point, BrandX.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Actually, the only thing I can agree on is some sets need to be brought UP first and then you compare them. Right now some old sets lose pbaoe but their ST ability is not greater than SJ.
Bring up the performances of other sets and then we have a more clearer picture. I have both incarnate SJ and MA. While SJ has greater burst damage, MA has a much smoother dps. In regular game setting, that massive burst damage can easily be wasted. And also, I don't think SJ is superior than Electricity and Spines. Elec and Spine with the new AS perform extremely well on a large team. |
And, eh. Spines is extremely poor. It's slow, it has no good single target attacks in the least, and has a number of other flaws.
Electricity definitely benefited because it's ST attacks were only lacking one absurd attack. It got that. Is it better than StJ overall? Nah. Their reduced critical numbers and reduced base damage REALLY hurts Electric Melees prowess. It's a great set, though, definitely. Just, it's definitely not vastly superior to KM or StJ.
Quote:
Not a moot point. I base this on people reactions.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
It's not a 'pause'. You can fix the chain with out a pause, you just need to know how to do it.
Additionally, your 'Incarnate powers shouldn't matter!' uh... doesn't really apply. Considering the bonuses from incarnate powers do not vary by any significant degree between power sets... eh, not arguing this. Moot point, BrandX. |
"OMG! 340 DPS IS OP!"
vs
"Wow. 230 DPS is nice."
It's a matter of perception, in which people take the Incarnate Level DPS and go, OP for all the old content, which of course it, and the devs fully admitted they would be.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Please don't compare PvE stalker DPS performance to PvP stalker performance|
Originally Posted by Synesence
The ATO proc works wonders for us Stalkers, giving us the high ST damage we so rightfully deserve! Why are you upset? Have you gotten beaten by a Stalker in PvP?
|
A pve built stalker is not a pvp built stalker and the differences are quite large.
A chain for a stalker in pvp is BU > AS >(placate >)Sharks. repeat.
This cannot be used as an example sorry
[Union Chat]Sebaddon: If you want to, we will, if you think it's weird, no, that's damz, not us.
[Union Chat]Damz: hey cyber, i am your naked pope for the evening, please confess to me my child
Quote:
And then the Mind/Fire Dom poops on them.|
Originally Posted by Black_Assassin
Please don't compare PvE stalker DPS performance to PvP stalker performance
A pve built stalker is not a pvp built stalker and the differences are quite large. A chain for a stalker in pvp is BU > AS >(placate >)Sharks. repeat. This cannot be used as an example sorry |
But yeah, Stalker PVP and Stalker PVE = Two TOTALLY different things.
How does Street Justice stack up against Elec when taking into account the high incidence of smashing resistance in game?
While I'm certainly happy with my StJ/EA stalker's performance (especially after slotting the ATIO set), things start getting dicey when I have to start taking on mobs with higher resistance levels(*). I have the same experience with my level 36 Nin/Elec stalker, who's fine normally, but whose kill speed started dropping alarmingly once she started going up against more and more resistant foes(**).
(*) He's level 34, and mostly on SOs and some IOs as I get them.
(**) But who is saved largely by the goodness that is Divine Avalanche enabling her to survive despite this
Energy isn't exactly that uncommon of a resistance. And really, the resistance types don't matter that much in practice. It's not something to go "Well Electric Melee is Energy focused so that's a BIG advantage!".
Maybe if it were Toxic, but since Energy is not uncommon, yeah.
Quote:
If you went Elec, youd just be frustrated against Rikti |
Originally Posted by Remmet
How does Street Justice stack up against Elec when taking into account the high incidence of smashing resistance in game?
While I'm certainly happy with my StJ/EA stalker's performance (especially after slotting the ATIO set), things start getting dicey when I have to start taking on mobs with higher resistance levels(*). I have the same experience with my level 36 Nin/Elec stalker, who's fine normally, but whose kill speed started dropping alarmingly once she started going up against more and more resistant foes(**). (*) He's level 34, and mostly on SOs and some IOs as I get them. (**) But who is saved largely by the goodness that is Divine Avalanche enabling her to survive despite this |
Pick whats fun and go with it! You wont be let down with the new changes. Some enemies will just beable to handle your damage type better than others.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Reppu
That to me sounds like an error that lies between the keyboard and the chair, in regards to your StJ vs MA argument. Personal experience means absolutely nothing unless you back it up with Data. Give data, not personal opinion and/or experience.
And, eh. Spines is extremely poor. It's slow, it has no good single target attacks in the least, and has a number of other flaws. Electricity definitely benefited because it's ST attacks were only lacking one absurd attack. It got that. Is it better than StJ overall? Nah. Their reduced critical numbers and reduced base damage REALLY hurts Electric Melees prowess. It's a great set, though, definitely. Just, it's definitely not vastly superior to KM or StJ. |
i disagree that "personal experience" means nothing. I think personal experience means even more than "hard data" when people try to calculate against a Pylon that is stationary and predictable in behavior.
You don't think the dev have calculated SJ's performance?
And I also disagree that Spines sucks. Obviously you are very biased on SJ and there is no point in debating. A well-slotted Spines and Elec are very good. Yes, they don't have SJ's kind of ST damage but they make it up for everything else. Spine has good aoe and very good slow debuff that's very beneficial to the team. It's even more nasty if you combo with /Ice. The slow debuffs will make enemies run away slower which will help melee to kill runners more efficiently.
Elec's ST damage isn't the top but it's not bad either. At some point you gotta find a good balance between ST and AoE. SJ has high damage aoe but small radius. I love my SJ/Ice but I also love my Elec/Will and Spine/Nin. I feel each combo shines in different area. Elec is at its best to take out easier minions. Spines is better at aoeing large spawns that take a bit longer to kill. SJ is very good at burst damage and taking out that one annoying target.
And I do have problems with MA and have said it many times, but I just don't think MA's ST damage is that inferior to SJ. It may be a tiny % off but that's hardly unplayable or rewarding a nerf on SJ.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Wish I bothered to read this thread sooner. Below is my StJ/SR build. The only SBE enhancments I have are 3 Performace Shifters procs otherwise the build will not sustain endurance (Even with several toggles deactivated and a 3.6 end/s gain). 3 of 5 Hecatomb IOs in CU are boosted to +5 as I needed a faster recharge to run a previous chain but probably not required for Auroxis' chain.
Auroxis calculations show that StJ has the potential of getting 450 DPS and I believe it. But I will never take Water Spout or Melt Armor otherwise my endurance would not last a minute in a long battle (Each cycle of the SB-AS-SC-SB-AS-CU chain uses about 45 end on my build). Can drop Rebirth for Ageless; drop two powers for the Medicine Pool yada yada. This is the build I came up with and don't feel convulsed to invest more time getting isalvage (Until i23 at least).
If I remember correctly that 450 DPS calculation also included SBE procs. Probably Hecatomb, Unbreakable Constraint, Armageddon and maybe Mako's. Imagine Kage's DB/SR with Water Spout, SBE procs and a perma Empower combo. That 345 DPS can possibly be 430 DPS. My NB/SR's 291 DPS can possibly be 400 DPS with T4'd incarnates, SBE's, WS and a stronger chain (Apparently GD after AS is not that great). BrandX's KM stalker was getting 230ish DPS with no frills and gimmicks and may not have been using KM's top attack chain. Btw, I tested the SBE Hecatomb proc on beta awhile ago and it seems to proc 100% of the time in AS.
Did a pylon run without incarnate powers and got a time of 4:08, 282 DPS. Constantly readjusting the chain to get CU back into the critical position.
Among stalker primaries, StJ currently may be the best of the best in regards to ST damage but not by far as some people may think.
Code:
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Quote:
Protecting the Precious Thing isn't any better than what you claim I'm doing. Spines IS an underperforming set, I'm sorry. Don't put words in my mouth, that's just hurting you more and more.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
i disagree that "personal experience" means nothing. I think personal experience means even more than "hard data" when people try to calculate against a Pylon that is stationary and predictable in behavior.
You don't think the dev have calculated SJ's performance? And I also disagree that Spines sucks. Obviously you are very biased on SJ and there is no point in debating. A well-slotted Spines and Elec are very good. Yes, they don't have SJ's kind of ST damage but they make it up for everything else. Spine has good aoe and very good slow debuff that's very beneficial to the team. It's even more nasty if you combo with /Ice. The slow debuffs will make enemies run away slower which will help melee to kill runners more efficiently. Elec's ST damage isn't the top but it's not bad either. At some point you gotta find a good balance between ST and AoE. SJ has high damage aoe but small radius. I love my SJ/Ice but I also love my Elec/Will and Spine/Nin. I feel each combo shines in different area. Elec is at its best to take out easier minions. Spines is better at aoeing large spawns that take a bit longer to kill. SJ is very good at burst damage and taking out that one annoying target. And I do have problems with MA and have said it many times, but I just don't think MA's ST damage is that inferior to SJ. It may be a tiny % off but that's hardly unplayable or rewarding a nerf on SJ. |
Either way, this is boring and I don't need to debate it further, since many people who were initially against it are starting to acknowledge "Okay, MAYBE this actually has some foundation to consider".
We'll see. As I said earlier, I am dropping this until further conclusive evidence is submitted. But I would not complain if StJ took a small numbers tweak down.
Quote:
It doesn't hurt me at all. It only shows me that you are very biased and unwillingly to accept the fact that not every set is designed to do the same amount of DPS. There are other factors involved.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
Protecting the Precious Thing isn't any better than what you claim I'm doing. Spines IS an underperforming set, I'm sorry. Don't put words in my mouth, that's just hurting you more and more.
|
So good luck finding your conclusive evidence because beating a pylon doesn't really mean much to me. Just because SJ has the best dps against a pylon doesn't mean it's the best set and I've given examples of situations where SJ isn't superior, except that you tend to think SJ is superior in EVERY aspect of the game. Yes, I am putting words in your mouth again because that's the impression you are giving me. Don't deny.
I think more people think more sets need to be brought up closer to SJ, Elec, Spines and Kinetic level than bringing them down. Before you nerf any set, make other sets better first.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
Spines won't beat Kinetic Melee in burst AoE damage. Or Electric Melee. It also can't remotely get close to... any of their Single Target. You did suggest a badly underpowered set had any advantages.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
It doesn't hurt me at all. It only shows me that you are very biased and unwillingly to accept the fact that not every set is designed to do the same amount of DPS. There are other factors involved.
So good luck finding your conclusive evidence because beating a pylon doesn't really mean much to me. Just because SJ has the best dps against a pylon doesn't mean it's the best set and I've given examples of situations where SJ isn't superior, except that you tend to think SJ is superior in EVERY aspect of the game. Yes, I am putting words in your mouth again because that's the impression you are giving me. Don't deny. I think more people think more sets need to be brought up closer to SJ, Elec, Spines and Kinetic level than bringing them down. Before you nerf any set, make other sets better first. |
... Willing to argue that it won't even beat Street Justice in burst AoE damage due to Spinning Strike.
There are absolutely no advantages to going Spines over Kinetic Melee and Electric Melee, and arguably Street Justice. It has poor attacks all around, offering absolutely nothing at all. It's AoE is weak, it's single target is weaker. It's a set that DOES need an overhaul.
Furthermore, it's not 'Pylon Test Damage'. Pylons are also good simulations for AV fights and such targets that require some extension of time. If the AV has a unique battle mechanic, sure! That sort of upsets things.
Slightly.
CoX will ALWAYS be a tank and spank game until further notice, so situations where AVs are largely immobile or otherwise easily controlled, then these tests MATTER. Get that through your head and stop ignoring things that hurt your logic.
BUT!
We're done here. When you put words in another person's mouth, you've forfeited the debate and all standing in it. Thank you for your previous time, although you still get angry way too easily.
I leave the following link for you in an attempt to help you deal with this issue: http://www.apa.org/topics/anger/control.aspx
Please tell me Mids is miscalculating the damage of CU. On a fully slotted build with "show max possible" on, build up on, and with musculature *core* paragon, I'm showing 3039.4 smashing damage. AS is showing 1255.9 damage. Even with buildup off and "show minimum" on, CU is still showing 2272.6 and AS is showing 944.4.
-Virtue-
Quote:
It is. Known bug.
|
Originally Posted by Shidosha
Please tell me Mids is miscalculating the damage of CU. On a fully slotted build with "show max possible" on, build up on, and with musculature *core* paragon, I'm showing 3039.4 smashing damage. AS is showing 1255.9 damage. Even with buildup off and "show minimum" on, CU is still showing 2272.6 and AS is showing 944.4.
|
Ok, what sort of numbers *should* I be actually seeing if it were working properly?
-Virtue-
Quote:
A critical Uppercut is close to a critical Assassin Strike from hidden (interruptable version). That's all you need to know. :P|
Originally Posted by Shidosha
Ok, what sort of numbers *should* I be actually seeing if it were working properly?
|
Now if you use Placate and then hit a Double Critical on a combo 3 Uppercut... that is just beautiful.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Reppu, spine burst may be pretty crap DPA but that isn't the only aoe spines gets. Ripper is analogous to but better than jacob's ladder, a very good attack, and throw spines is a top tier stalker aoe. It's basically shockwave but without your team yelling at you for using it. Elec probably does beat spines for aoe but I'm not so sure anything else will until staff. Really I'm not even that sure about elec.
Quote:
Staff's AoE isn't that good. Worse than Kinetic Melee for sure. Burst is pretty overpowered, though.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Reppu, spine burst may be pretty crap DPA but that isn't the only aoe spines gets. Ripper is analogous to but better than jacob's ladder, a very good attack, and throw spines is a top tier stalker aoe. It's basically shockwave but without your team yelling at you for using it. Elec probably does beat spines for aoe but I'm not so sure anything else will until staff. Really I'm not even that sure about elec.
|
Ripper is 'fairly standard' Range 7: Radius 90. It's not that great but it's something
Spine Burst is ugh.
Throw Spines is the only thing really worth acknowledging.
Meanwhile, Kinetic Melee has Burst... which beats all of the above because it's Burst. It's broken and it's been known to me.
Jacob's Ladder is 'okay'. I wasn't claiming anything amazing from it. It's lesser than Ripper for potential AoE but it's a better attack.
Chain Induction is what you're there for. Delicious AoE damage, although 'slightly delayed' due to the jumping mechanic.
And then Lightning Rod. Sure, the cooldown is long, but it's short enough to be there for mostly every single spawn, at least at high recharge levels.
And Street Justice has Spinning Strike. Even opening with it with 0 Combo Points at Stealth isn't bad, and you'll have it saturated for the second salvo really quickly. Otherwise, just combo point up with an AS from stealth on a Boss, punch that boss, then when everything is swarmed they eat a Spinning.
All things said; Spines is derpy. Needs overhaul.
Quote:
I think the thing with staff is that it has two AoEs, which both have extended range (secondary effect of the set). Really radius is what hampers both km's burst and stj's spin; even when the enemies crowd up on each other you will not hit nearly as many with those powers as you would with staff/elec/spine. I have high-level stalkers of all these primaries (except staff, obviously), and as far as I can tell, even with the broken nature of burst, elec and spine leave the other two in the dust in terms of AoE.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
Staff's AoE isn't that good. Worse than Kinetic Melee for sure. Burst is pretty overpowered, though.
Ripper is 'fairly standard' Range 7: Radius 90. It's not that great but it's something Spine Burst is ugh. Throw Spines is the only thing really worth acknowledging. Meanwhile, Kinetic Melee has Burst... which beats all of the above because it's Burst. It's broken and it's been known to me. Jacob's Ladder is 'okay'. I wasn't claiming anything amazing from it. It's lesser than Ripper for potential AoE but it's a better attack. Chain Induction is what you're there for. Delicious AoE damage, although 'slightly delayed' due to the jumping mechanic. And then Lightning Rod. Sure, the cooldown is long, but it's short enough to be there for mostly every single spawn, at least at high recharge levels. And Street Justice has Spinning Strike. Even opening with it with 0 Combo Points at Stealth isn't bad, and you'll have it saturated for the second salvo really quickly. Otherwise, just combo point up with an AS from stealth on a Boss, punch that boss, then when everything is swarmed they eat a Spinning. All things said; Spines is derpy. Needs overhaul. |
I agree that spines needs an overhaul. Throw spines is fan-freaking-tastic on a stalker, but the rest of the set is clunky and low damage.
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Quote:
True, they are Radius... 10? I think? Pretty decent, although they're held back a bit I won't say it's BAD AoE, because it's not. It's just not going to be better than someone who's REALLY good at positioning Burst/Spinning Strike/etc.
|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
I think the thing with staff is that it has two AoEs, which both have extended range (secondary effect of the set). Really radius is what hampers both km's burst and stj's spin; even when the enemies crowd up on each other you will not hit nearly as many with those powers as you would with staff/elec/spine. I have high-level stalkers of all these primaries (except staff, obviously), and as far as I can tell, even with the broken nature of burst, elec and spine leave the other two in the dust in terms of AoE.
I agree that spines needs an overhaul. Throw spines is fan-freaking-tastic on a stalker, but the rest of the set is clunky and low damage. |
Chain induction is a great attack but to call it reliable aoe would be wrong. Incredibly common scenario for my elec/ice: bu-lr-ci: most of the minions are a sliver away from dead, the first jump kills one, that's all the aoe it does. Who cares, it's up again in three seconds, but the point is that at any given moment you cannot count on it to produce good aoe damage. You definitely can't count it as equal to spine burst in an overall comparison of elec and spines if ripper is jacob's ladder's big brother and throw spines is comparable to lightning rod, which it is. Spine burst may be slow as heck but if you hit ten targets it is entirely worth using, something that is easy to do compared to most other stalker aoes. You like burst, huh? Spine burst hits an area seven times as large as burst. Have fun with those 100% crits.
Quote:
8 x 7 = 56|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Chain induction is a great attack but to call it reliable aoe would be wrong. Incredibly common scenario for my elec/ice: bu-lr-ci: most of the minions are a sliver away from dead, the first jump kills one, that's all the aoe it does. Who cares, it's up again in three seconds, but the point is that at any given moment you cannot count on it to produce good aoe damage. You definitely can't count it as equal to spine burst in an overall comparison of elec and spines if ripper is jacob's ladder's big brother and throw spines is comparable to lightning rod, which it is. Spine burst may be slow as heck but if you hit ten targets it is entirely worth using, something that is easy to do compared to most other stalker aoes. You like burst, huh? Spine burst hits an area seven times as large as burst. Have fun with those 100% crits.
|
Spine Burst is Radius 15.
... Nope!
Although more seriously; yes. I'll take my 100% Crits that activate quicker, with higher base damage, 100% critical damage, all for the low, low price of smaller radius.
... And doesn't have the horrible Spines coating, and the really dorky "HURRRRRRRRBLAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!" animation ;P
Spines is underpowered, why are you debating this? Are you saying Spines AoE damage is worth it's lack of single target? If so, alright. It doesn't need buffs.
Also, in regards to Chain Induction? The problem there lies between the keyboard and the chair, not Chain Induction as a power.
I'm sorry you don't know the formula for the volume of a sphere. Google could probably help. What I'm saying is that spines is a top aoe set for stalkers, in response to you saying it is bad for aoe. You are mistaken, feel free to try again. Be sure to post your protips for causing chain lightning to never jump to something that is nearly dead for bonus points.
I was curious so I checked how many times CI can even jump: turns out it's five times. The best case scenario for CI is dealing less than half as much damage as saturated spine burst. It does it in more than twice as much time, but CI also does not apply any procs off the jumps. Add interface and procs and spine burst is superior aoe to CI in every important way. Spines is better than elec for aoe, QED. Whoops, silly me: CI can crit off its first hit, not on any of the jumps. Spine burst can crit on each hit, 50% from hide. It is radically superior to CI for aoe. Lightning rod can't crit at all, throw spines has 50% crit from hide. Spines actually makes elec look like garbage for aoe. Your thoughts, Reppu? I'm sure they'll be relevant.
Quote:
While I do love Electric Melee on my Stalker, I think you praise it too much...|
Originally Posted by Reppu
Staff's AoE isn't that good. Worse than Kinetic Melee for sure. Burst is pretty overpowered, though.
Ripper is 'fairly standard' Range 7: Radius 90. It's not that great but it's something Spine Burst is ugh. Throw Spines is the only thing really worth acknowledging. Meanwhile, Kinetic Melee has Burst... which beats all of the above because it's Burst. It's broken and it's been known to me. Jacob's Ladder is 'okay'. I wasn't claiming anything amazing from it. It's lesser than Ripper for potential AoE but it's a better attack. Chain Induction is what you're there for. Delicious AoE damage, although 'slightly delayed' due to the jumping mechanic. And then Lightning Rod. Sure, the cooldown is long, but it's short enough to be there for mostly every single spawn, at least at high recharge levels. And Street Justice has Spinning Strike. Even opening with it with 0 Combo Points at Stealth isn't bad, and you'll have it saturated for the second salvo really quickly. Otherwise, just combo point up with an AS from stealth on a Boss, punch that boss, then when everything is swarmed they eat a Spinning. All things said; Spines is derpy. Needs overhaul. |
Not that you mentioned, but I find the whole 'doesn't break hide' feature of Lightning Rod pointless, so throw that out. The whole point of LR is to point it at what you want to hit hard so most likely you're using it on foes you're already engaging. That 5ft area where it does its max dmg is the part you want to exploit.
Furthermore, Chain Induction? Yeah, it's nice that it works but it's hardly great AoE. It's supplementary AoE, is all. By itself, it's nothing. Because the chains can't crit and they don't do all that much dmg in the first place.
Thunder Strike is the set's workhorse but regrettably, it's one of the set's slowest moves. It rounds out the sets ST dmg while nicely supplementing it's AoE but by and large, it's Jacob's Ladder that is the hardest critting AoE of the set but that is hampered by the range and arc of the attack. All in all, it's the combo of the many AoEs that makes the set effective.
For Spines, it is the crits. Compared to Elec Melee, it's leaps and bounds ahead of EM because every power benefits from critical hits and equally. On paper, it's mainly the DPS that hurts. But DPS isn't everything. Secondary effects like slows, knockdown, immobilize and extra damage all add up when you talk about AoE.
Compare that to Kinetic and Elec. Those piddly splashes of -dmg and -recovery are, at best, useless and at worse penalize the sets. Spines is penalized for having secondary effects that are *TOO GOOD*. That it can apply them in an AoE emphasizes those effects more.
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Originally Posted by Microcosm
I think the thing with staff is that it has two AoEs, which both have extended range (secondary effect of the set). Really radius is what hampers both km's burst and stj's spin; even when the enemies crowd up on each other you will not hit nearly as many with those powers as you would with staff/elec/spine. I have high-level stalkers of all these primaries (except staff, obviously), and as far as I can tell, even with the broken nature of burst, elec and spine leave the other two in the dust in terms of AoE.
I agree that spines needs an overhaul. Throw spines is fan-freaking-tastic on a stalker, but the rest of the set is clunky and low damage. |
While they do hit easier, they also hit lighter and one issue with them is always going to be mob size...the bigger the foes are the fewer you'll be able to hit. For cones, if the mob is bigger, use more speed to hit the same number. It's that easy.
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Originally Posted by Reppu
True, they are Radius... 10? I think? Pretty decent, although they're held back a bit I won't say it's BAD AoE, because it's not. It's just not going to be better than someone who's REALLY good at positioning Burst/Spinning Strike/etc.
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Conversely, Spine Burst is 15ft radius. It may not be a fast AoE but it's comparable with its own advantages.
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Originally Posted by Reppu
8 x 7 = 56
Spine Burst is Radius 15. ... Nope! Although more seriously; yes. I'll take my 100% Crits that activate quicker, with higher base damage, 100% critical damage, all for the low, low price of smaller radius. ... And doesn't have the horrible Spines coating, and the really dorky "HURRRRRRRRBLAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!" animation ;P Spines is underpowered, why are you debating this? Are you saying Spines AoE damage is worth it's lack of single target? If so, alright. It doesn't need buffs. Also, in regards to Chain Induction? The problem there lies between the keyboard and the chair, not Chain Induction as a power. |
It's actually kind of funny, how people will lean on that particular feature like it's perfectly fine but never seek dev position on it. So 100% crit Burst is fine? What about Shadow Maul or Jacob's Ladder or Spine Burst? Why not give those 100% crit from hide? Does Kinetic melee fall behind on some regards that this is the sole set that has that feature?
StJ probably needs a very close eye on it. Because as long as you play it intelligently and don't Scrapperlock it, it has absurd levels of potential now.
Though, I'm less likely to care about the use of incarnate powers in use, where others are all "OMG SEE THIS WITH INCARNATES"
Note, this doesn't mean no IO use, but Incarnate level is silly to worry about as Incarnate level puts non incarnate content to shame, as was it's intention.
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