Give Scrappers a real inherent power

It's bad enough that Brutes step onto the Tankers toes in terms of what Tankers are pretty much only good for without having Scrappers do the same.

I would like to have this explained to me, because maybe I'm too dense to get it.

Let's say over 30 seconds, a Scrapper is attacking on an EB. Each of those 30 seconds, they are executing an attack. That means they are doing a fixed amount of damage over that time. With the number of attacks we have available, we already never have a moment where we don't have an attack up and ready to execute.

If we were given more HP, or more Crit chance, or more max End, or a Dmg boost power, then the attack chain we run does more, or we survive more.

That is a buff.

Putting another attack in that does the damage that our existing attacks already do doesn't increase anything. We would be doing the same DPS, have the same HP, same everything.

I don't see how that would be a buff of any kind. The only thing I'm getting at is making our chains a bit less stale and static.


You are quite a pleasant person and your argument is very convincing.

How do your tanks appreciate having aggro taken from them when you taunt the AV they are tanking for the team? I'm sure they really love it when you do that on your Scrapper.

Well, let's look at this from a slightly different perspective. What tier level attack is this new damage bearing attack going to be?

For example sake lets say it is an attack that is equal to the tier 3 attack for that set, so in essence you now get two tier 3 attacks. Say that person then decides to drop his tier 1 or tier 2 attack in the chain and use the extra attack in its place, something they cannot do now. That is one place where the buff is clear. Right?

How do you like relying on the presence of a tank on every team? Why learn how to manage aggro and stand up to AVs yourself when you can just get someone else to do it for you, eh? If your best case against confront is "it huwts the poow wittwe tanker's feewings," you'll have to pardon me for telling you to learn to play.

Okay, point made and taken.

I'll shut up now.

I am not a pleasant person. Do you read your statements. Can you guarantee that they are 100% true? Down in the Scrapper section Zyphoid atleast asked, the mere less than 1% of the player base that care to look in the Scrapper section.

I am annoyed with anyone trying to remove a power that I have never ever not had since March 2005. That's 7 years and in those 7 years there have been a few others who have taken it and still have it.

I don't mind Brutes getting Taunt, I don't mind Scrappers getting Confront, that would be silly as I do not roll Brutes without Taunt or Scrappers without Confront. I'll tank with all of them as and when required.

If I am teamed with a Tanker then being a Tanker player I should realise that they've logged on to tank so aside from bits here and there I do what most people consider Bruting or Scrapping. If he's Tanking and not doing too well then I can only put it down to inexperience and quite frankly I think most people have to gain experience to lose inexperience. I may or may not try to take complete control, I may just do what they should of done. It maybe that against a particular AV a type of Tanker isn't the best foot forward lacking completely in Psi def and all and my Dark Armour Brute or Scrapper can take some/most/all of the weight. Not necessarily full time but part of the time. If a Tankers worried they can ease up on their threat and allow me increase mine in order for me to bear things instead.

I don't live in a world where I never needed confront and am too stupid to realise all the times where someone that I have teamed with might of thought after being held or planted "If only she had confront" because I have always had confront.

Whew. I apologize, I assumed that attitudes like this was more the domain of certain other MMOs.

I'm bowing out of this conversation, the counter argument was actually really well made by other people with better attitudes than this.

In every MMO I have ever played, I've always been the tank. I have played tanks for a long, long time in several different games, I know how the role functions, but I certainly will take your advice of "learning to play" under immediate consideration. Do you charge for this advice? If not you ought to consider making a career in it.


I saw that thread. I assume it was made in response to what I said above because it wasn't there until after I had made that post.

I obviously cannot speak for everyone and do not have access to the player database to mine for how many scrappers take that power. Obviously some do. I've been searching lately for builds and looking at all guides for Scrappers as I like to learn more about what I'm doing, and I've never found anyone saying "take Confront" nor have I encountered a situation where I was like "man, I really wish I had Confront".

I have always played the tank in MMOs for over a decade. It's part of my nature, and on my scrapper I do watch out for the support classes and run over to stop mobs from swarming them. It's already easy to do with a scrapper, you go and hit it. It's almost always dead after a few hits anyway so it's not hitting your teammate.

So, I do apologize for making the blanket statement that I did. Calling someone a liar isn't exactly a tactful response, though.

No worries we are still good.

The holy trinity is blurry here. Lets say I am going to tank Ghost Widow with say a Fire/Fire Scrapper for a team of Blappers (that's blasters who don't do range really) why shouldn't I be able to? They'll probably run out of endurance and have to go rest if they haven't got blues and stuff but that is not a worry really.

You don't get to call anyone out for their attitude when you trot out "nobody has ever, ever taken confront" as a reason to nerf a power that I take on every scrapper that I make. Either you're lying or you're being willfully ignorant, which do you prefer? I'd prefer neither, as you can see I found it quite annoying.

Blanket statements and actual truth do not tend to go together ever. You're not alone in making them, they happen almost all the time on these forums. No matter how many people might of told you in this thread that they have Confront alone you seem to ignore it and keep saying "no one takes it" which is a bit like "no one of importance cares for it". I do, and I find it fairly important as I am not someone playing a Scrapper just for the kills at all. It got your attention where all the people saying they had confront would not of. I might come across as talking bull myself but using swings and roundabouts there is some truth to it most often, most often because I do jump in and talk obvious crap when some joke thread is on.

Two thoughts. First, I take it you haven't fought Diabolique in Dark Astoria yet. (She runs away and the -range on confront would be helpful).

Two, I know how the devs can get EVERY character with Confront/Taunt available to take and 6 slot their taunt power - bring out a Purple Taunt set with a positional defense bonus.
Something like:
2: 16% Regen
3: 3% HP
4: 5% S/L, 2.5% Melee Defense
5: 10% Recharge
6 5% AoE, 2.5% F/C Defense

24 hours later (the servers crash due to every level 50 Scrapper respecing at once), problem solved.

(Edited because I had a brainfart and forgot that Fire/Cold, not Energy/Negative, was paired with AoE defense.)

Originally Posted by Shubbie Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

I don't think it matters if most Scrappers don't take it or if some Scrappers don't take it. The typical Scrapper needs something that helps "him" and works for "him". Most never give a toot about the team except when it comes to people that he feels should be supporting "him" and at the end of the mission despite buffed Blasters doing most of the DPS, success was largely down to "him" as he is "pro" and all others are mere spectators to his "awesomesauce". Then he might log on to the forums to discuss what he can do so that the sycophantic lemmings can just go "wow". He certainly appreciates the adoration.

I've seen a lot of Scrappers talk a good game without confront but never really give one. I think it might be because I am not "him", so things aren't about me. It's a good game because what mattered to "him" is the only thing that counts.

How many scrappers can say that theyre not all "me,me,me"?

I have two Scrappers that pre-date the existence of Brutes, Stalkers and the other CoV ATs. All my Scrappers pre-date the recent Stalker buffs. It's not like you can change ATs.

My main a BS/Regen was unique for a long time. But over the course of the game, I've seen every bit of it taken away and given to other ATs. Now I play a combination that you can also play as a Stalker and as a Brute and each of those would arguably be better for this particular combo (for different reasons).

Does my BS/Regen do OK? Sure, she does fine. If I feel like taking 30 minutes I can even kill a pylon without Lore pets. But all around, I've seen buff after buff of other ATs which has made this combo superfluous. The counter some folks will undoubtedly say to me is that "It's still good, quit your complaining." But that very same argument was true of Stalkers before Issue 22. The weakest combos weren't the best, but they did good. That wasn't enough for Stalker players. So why should it be for me?

I dunno, personally I think killing stuff is more effective than taunting it.

Boss attacking squishy?

*CRUSHING UPPERCUT*

Problem solved.

Really though taking confront isn't even helping the team that much. Perhaps if it were a full on taunt... but all it does is take time that would be better spent hitting stuff to taunt a single target, when most fights will have enmies numbering in the 20's.

Let's say your taunt aura is the only thing keeping a cluster of mobs inside of a Rad defenders debuffs. The Rad defender isn't in there with you but there is one or two Critters going for it, range beats travel, one you might of used one range attack and the other you could use Confront. There are lots of circumstances.

All you've done is say something I have seen people say and yet disprove not only to me but themselves as a result ingame. Usually an attack may miss, actually even Scrappers on their tauntless Brutes don't tend to weigh up against their words either.

Some gauntleting + aura only Tankers prove their own limits to themselves eventually too.

More proof to nerf Crushing Uppercut!

TO THE PRESS!

I am not even sure they need to do that - have you looked at the set bonuses for the taunt sets? Mocking beratement gives you 2.5% S/L def, 3.13 F/C def and 7.5% global recharge. Perfect Zinger gives 10% regen, 5% recharge, 2.5% damage and 3.13% S/L def. Those are awesome set bonuses for some of the cheapest sets in the game - there are tons on the market and almost no one buys them, so you can get the pretty easily.

Still, it costs 1 power selection for a power that has limited use and you generally have to want S/L def or the slots aren't worth it

Confront does not stop runners. I respec'd into Confront on Test and tried it. They do not stop running away.

2: 16% Regen
3: 3% HP
4: 4% DMG
5: 10% Recharge
6 5% Defense All

You're right, that's why they should have the set looking like this, so it covers all build types.

Now, see, if the Rad defender can't survive a couple of enemies going after it, they obviously don't deserve to survive. Have you seen the debuffs on those things? All that -damage and -tohit, they would stand no chance of hitting the *******.

Also, better than taunting- Taking combat jumping, jumping over and hitting the bastards.

All a Scrapper's problems can be solved by hitting them.

Actually, my counter is pretty simple: put your playing where your mouth is. Stop playing Scrappers until they get attention. And yes, this argument was made at the time that Stalkers were requesting buffs as well - although in that particular case Stalkers could also point to actual numerical disparities between them and Scrappers and a recent balance pass between Brutes and Scrappers where the intent was to balance damage and survivability along with a dev quote that indicated that they were fully aware that Stalkers didn't fit in the same neighborhood. Scrappers have the fact that in that balance pass another AT was tweaked to more fit inline with their performance rather than receiving any buffs, which would lead me to believe that the devs think they're just fine already.

Stalkers and Dominators recently received developer attention. Probably-not-coincidentally, they are the two non-epic ATs that had the lowest active population the last time the developers released any sort of activity information (that I am aware of).

If nobody is playing something, the devs will eventually get around to looking at them and trying to figure out why. If there is a sudden mass exodus from an extremely popular AT showing when they datamine activity, there are probably going to be some red flags crop up somewhere making them wonder why, and they'll get developer attention.

Feel free to ask for the world. Stalkers certainly got more than I was expecting. But I wouldn't hold my breath on Scrappers.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

I do have a lvl 50 Nin/Nin stalker, I also have a lvl 50 MA/SR stalker. Both incarnates. As you know jack squat about me, don't bother telling me what I should play. And you sure as hell have no room to tell me what I should want.

I don't give a flying fart in space if Stalkers get shield, I didn't when it was released, and I don't now. Why not every other power Scrappers have have been given to the other Melee AT's. But bring up Ninjitsu and this is the reaction every time.

It is the "I should get to play with your toys, but you can't play with mine." Stalkers ahve gotten everything else Scrappers have, and in some cases better versions of it. Crits I am looking at you.

You argument is one of the worst here. When stalkers got Broad Sword the devs lost any justification they may have had in not giving scrappers any power set any of the other ATs have.

I have more, but you have already pissed me off enough. I will leave it at this. Hell yeah Scrappers should get Nin, because Stalkers got Broad Sword.