Issue 22, a week later.
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-03-13 04:38 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
I think there is just a difference in the approach taken by the other company and Z's post pretty much confirmed this fact. Cheers.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Without knowing how much resources is given to each by their parent companies for each dev team, QA team, etc, yes, you very well can say it IS POSSIBLY about resources.
Unless you have some magic way of seeing the budgets of both enterprises, AND KNOW FOR A FACT that both teams have the same exact budgetary resources? |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Quote:
L|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
 |
M
A
O
That is all!
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Quote:
Fair enough. To be honest with you I prefer NCSoft's approach. It SOUNDS LIKE there is less chance for a "simple change" to take down an entire game. *looks at a couple of DIRECT competitor mmos, in which this happened recently* |
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I think there is just a difference in the approach taken by the other company and Z's post pretty much confirmed this fact. Cheers.
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/shrug.
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Quote:
100% incorrect. It has nothing to do with budget or resources. As I stated, it has to do with methodology and process. |
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I think there is just a difference in the approach taken by the other company and Z's post pretty much confirmed this fact. Cheers.
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I've worked with smaller teams that used the more rapid development process. The point I am making is that there are pros and cons to different methods of iteration/development process. The pros of our process is that the overall availability of the game is increased, the cons are that things sometimes take a bit longer to fix, so long as they're not making the servers go boom.
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
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That's all that needed to be said there.
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Originally Posted by MentalMaden
People complain.
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My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
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heh. |
Originally Posted by itsjustjake
that's all that needed to be said there.
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Quote:
I did not say it had anything to do with resources. Different approach=Different Methodology, that's what I said.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
100% incorrect. It has nothing to do with budget or resources. As I stated, it has to do with methodology and process.
I've worked with smaller teams that used the more rapid development process. The point I am making is that there are pros and cons to different methods of iteration/development process. The pros of our process is that the overall availability of the game is increased, the cons are that things sometimes take a bit longer to fix, so long as they're not making the servers go boom. |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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My fault for misunderstanding then (probably from reading the previously quoted post). Apologies. |
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I did not say it had anything to do with resources. Different approach=Different Methodology, that's what I said.
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Carry on!
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
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There's a pretty big gap between "we can't do a hotfix in an hour because of the risk of regression" and "it takes 2 weeks to make a build that flips a toggle on", as the converter issue was explained.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Yes, you're more agile (pardon the development methodology pun), but you're also more open to "bad stuff" due to rapid iteration.
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I assume you probably don't like making builds for small fixes, because making builds eats up a ton of engineer and QA time. The product I'm working on went code complete in December and is just shipping this week, so I get it. Any change, no matter how small (our last patch was adding a copyright notice missing in a few files) ends up provoking a full regression test that eats 4 QA man-days, now.
For my part, I'd be a lot happier with more information about when to expect a patch. Not just now, but updated regularly until it arrives. It's not really the waiting that I find frustrating - it's the lack of information about what to expect.
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Although I can agree with the frustration, from what you just stated (and what I've experienced in my own day to day work) I can can of see why there is such a lack of information.
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Originally Posted by Plasma
There's a pretty big gap between "we can't do a hotfix in an hour because of the risk of regression" and "it takes 2 weeks to make a build that flips a toggle on", as the converter issue was explained.
I assume you probably don't like making builds for small fixes, because making builds eats up a ton of engineer and QA time. The product I'm working on went code complete in December and is just shipping this week, so I get it. Any change, no matter how small (our last patch was adding a copyright notice missing in a few files) ends up provoking a full regression test that eats 4 QA man-days, now. For my part, I'd be a lot happier with more information about when to expect a patch. Not just now, but updated regularly until it arrives. It's not really the waiting that I find frustrating - it's the lack of information about what to expect. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
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Err wrong, plenty had it on the first evening. I'm in UK, so had 5-8 hours less time after the patch than an american, and got to 28 without doing any farming. While they have little effect on team play, this means I'm not prepared to solo my troller as it means I'm desperately slow if I lock stuff down to start with.|
Originally Posted by Sermon
Better how? I really don't see it. These aren't game breaking issues. Most darkness characters won't even get to their pet before the patch comes through.
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These bugs make the game look terrible on its biggest showcase when lots of people come back to play (double XP), marketing disaster.
Other games will have a patch the day after a major release (and need less than an hour to apply it to a bigger client), sometimes I feel this game is way behind in its standards of service.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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Don't do that, it makes me want to play that other game I play.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
There are a many different types of iteration when it comes to rapid online development, some are more rapid than others, and have *much* more inherent risk involved.
Personal experience: I worked on a couple of games where changes that involved data files only could be rapidly read up to a live shard, which meant a simple bug could be quickly fixed. Changes which involved code still required a build. Sounds awesome right? Well, a good 50% of the time (probably hyperbolic) fixing a simple bug resulted in a larger, more serious bug occurring in a live environment. Yes, you're more agile (pardon the development methodology pun), but you're also more open to "bad stuff" due to rapid iteration. At Paragon/NCsoft, we have a more methodical approach to iteration. This results in less game breaking/server destroying bugs, which results in more overall availability of the product. This also means that, due to our methodical process, the bugs that do make it to live, it happens, take longer to fix because we plan our process out weeks in advance. We still have to rapidly (within 24 hours response) iterate if there's an issue that's wrecking mass havoc on live servers, and adjust our schedules accordingly. As anyone in software development will tell you, schedules are very, very important. If milestones get pushed, it has an effect on the entire studio, soup to nuts. Keep in mind, I'm not an engineer...but I play one online.  |
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There's nothing wrong with playing multiple games. Helps prevent potential burn out on any one game |
Originally Posted by newchemicals
Don't do that, it makes me want to play that other game I play.
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Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
There's nothing wrong with playing multiple games. Helps prevent potential burn out on any one game
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While your in the thread active, any ETA on the patch for those converts? ^_^
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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If I may be so bold as to speak for the man: During last night's impromptu Ustream, Zwil said that the converters would be going live as part of the first big post-I22 patch, which is tentatively still a couple of weeks away.
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Originally Posted by EU_Damz
While your in the thread active, any ETA on the patch for those converts? ^_^
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Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
If I may be so bold as to speak for the man: During last night's impromptu Ustream, Zwil said that the converters would be going live as part of the first big post-I22 patch, which is tentatively still a couple of weeks away.
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Oh
Actually thought a patch might be much sooner [like this week], but thanks for the update Helps in stopping me looking out for a "server downtime tomorrow" notice 
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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I don't get this part because they were/are working just fine in BETA and have for weeks now...Oh well.
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
If I may be so bold as to speak for the man: During last night's impromptu Ustream, Zwil said that the converters would be going live as part of the first big post-I22 patch, which is tentatively still a couple of weeks away.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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It seems like they picked up a last minute bug with them, and decided to pull them rather than delay I22.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I don't get this part because they were/are working just fine in BETA and have for weeks now...Oh well.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Bears repeating:|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Keep in mind, I'm not an engineer...but I play one online.
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Sappin' mah sentray!
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Minor nitpick; tentatively within the next few weeks |
Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
If I may be so bold as to speak for the man: During last night's impromptu Ustream, Zwil said that the converters would be going live as part of the first big post-I22 patch, which is tentatively still a couple of weeks away.
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.And please, always be so bold. Makes my job easier!
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
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You would like us to be so bold as to speak for you?|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
And please, always be so bold. Makes my job easier!
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Anyone know if that Put Words in Castle's Mouth Generator is still active?
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Only if what you're saying is accurate...or at least possesses a modicum of truthiness.
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
You would like us to be so bold as to speak for you?
Anyone know if that Put Words in Castle's Mouth Generator is still active? |
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
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I asked you nicely not to try reverse engineering things. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It seems like they picked up a last minute bug with them, and decided to pull them rather than delay I22.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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What would be the fun in that?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Only if what you're saying is accurate...or at least possesses a modicum of truthiness.
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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
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Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!