Blaster Issues - Mezzing

No not rejecting reality, but i think you may be privy to more data than I am.

I've not seen anything from the datamining that stated empirically that "Blasters that are mezzed die more often than their counterparts who are mezzed where the mezz was categorically responsible for the summary loss of health leading to defeat as it a) directly preceded defeat of the character, b) no powers were used by mezzed character during the mezzed state indicating a disabled player ** (see below) and c) magnitude of, and resistance to, said mezz was equal for both." Was that, indeed, the finding? That would make me question my experiences.

I'm saying that my experiences with being mezzed don't directly relate to my mortality when playing a number of "squishy" AT's. And I've not seen anything that supports that particular theory as fact. If I'm wrong, I would very much like to hear the findings and I suspect that if anyone could point me to them, it would be you. And in this game, that which doesn't kill me doesn't really hurt my rewards when teamed. Progression remains equal until an AT is defeated and incurs debt. And I've at least a few blasters at 50 that don't have their first debt badge, while I've many controllers and corrupters that had the first two by 40.....but thats just an anecdote.

My belief is that such data mining was focused on mortality rates of the various AT's and not causality of specific instances of mortality. If it was segmented out further, then I've not seen/heard about it. So I believe its possible that both my experiences, and the datamining performed, are both accurate representations of reality. It just depends on the focus on causality versus outcome.

**Experience would tell me that since Defiance was changed, my blaster mortality actually improved significantly as most of the mezzers I meet can be mitigated using Defiance-enabled attacks. Those that can't...well, they could have killed me without mezzing me so not sure that matters. And determining "death from damage dealt by mezzer" versus "death from other critters working with the mezzer" is beyond my meager ability to recall.

Castle did say the things Arcanaville has mentioned and more.

Blasters are damage dealers. If they are mezzed before Defiance 2.0 they did no damage. Since D 2.0 they do a little damage.

I personally don't think it is enough damage and would like a way to fight out of a mez.

The other day, I had the seed of an idea for a sort of Defiance 2.1, I suppose.

What if you kept the 2.0--usable T1 and T2 attacks when mezzed--but increased the damage of those attacks when mezzed? This would be a bit like a combination of Defiance 1.0 and the current 2.0. Additionally, the damage increase would scale negatively with team size, basically the inverse of the Defender inherent buff. So when you're solo and mezzed, which is a more dangerous situation for the Blaster, you would do more damage with those 3 attacks than if you were teamed and mezzed.

...I'm either not explaining that well, or it's actually not that palatable now that I look at it, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

I think the problem with mezz is actually bigger than Blasters. IMO this is a core combat issue for this game.

Mezz is very binary in City of Heroes. I mean, it's fairly binary in other games too, in the strict sense that you're either mezzed or not. But I've never seen an MMO where your character class more or less was a binary switch for having to deal with mezz and having to not. Even the Tanks in other games get affected by mezz (albiet somewhat less than others).

Ironically, part of the problem is that it's just possible to become too immune. That means the enemies can be given outrageous mezz abilities and most people won't really even notice. To call out one extremely specific example, the sheer number of knockdown/back powers in the game makes obtaining knock protection a virtual requirement. And then once you've flipped that switch you simply never get bothered by that again. A much better set up would have been for there to be far less knockback coming from enemies in the first place, but 100% knockback protection impossible to obtain for anyone but the tankiest Tanker. And then you wouldn't have the sorts of situations we do now, where because the values are so extreme, the way to handle knockback (or defense or resistance or anything else that's gotten out of control) is to just bypass it and make it Unresistable and/or Undodgeable.

Thing is, the way the game is set up, for there to be any sort of equitablity Blasters need straight up mezz protection toggles. I'm not even kidding, not with VEATs and Dominators running around. They're not going to get them, but that's not because of equitability. Rather, it's because the feeling is we bothered putting all this mezz in the game, and why bother doing that if everyone is protected? In other words, its not balanced for individual archetypes it's balanced by the idea that at least someone in the aggregrate of team members is being hit, and that someone is largely Blasters. Blasters won't get mezz immunity not because it would be unbalanced for them, but because the total protection boat can only fit so many.

My general feeling is that mezz protection itself should have chances to fail, and mezzes on players themselves should have be less punishing overall, and far less frequent. And it also turns out there is a model of this already in the game, in the entire structure of the ITF.

Another sidenote here, but it is also my general feeling that if there is one place mezz IS fair is in "death patches." But most of the death patches we've seen have been more out to just outright kill you. A big "dodge this or get mezzed (or debuffed)" would interest me much more.


EDIT: And speaking of death patches, since all of the Blaster T1 and T2s now have identical cast times, I wonder how doable it would be to develop two new animations that allow these powers to be cast by Blasters with no rooting (i.e. all blast sets use the same animation to shoot while running, exception being weapon sets). There is already some established precedent about Blasters being able to use their powers in situations where others can't.

[QUOTE=Oedipus_Tex;4145116]I think the problem with mezz is actually bigger than Blasters. IMO this is a core combat issue for this game.

Between what the Devs think we need to have (and they're often unsure themselves) and what players want (don't give the kids TOO much candy or they'll get sick and go home) lies the answer I think. The problem is that the answer, like philosophy, is different for everyone.

Some players like Blapping. Ok, more power to them. I tried it and it wasn't my cup of tea. Such players want more melee damage, splash effects with their melee attacks or something. Some Blaster players like range and want some sort of rangerd buff or mechanic. Unfortunately this leaves the other players out of the loop.

Being a fan of easy fixes I'm in favor of starting with more damage. Go back to the '3 minions vs one character' model the game started with. Now I think we all admit that, at the early levels this is insanely easy. I can defeat 3 even-conned minions with Brawl and virtually any other single power in the game that will affect either them or me. The game was designed that way so as to not scare off new players who had yet to learn tactics, builds and so forth.

But the game has changed. More enemies at every level have mez now. More enemies can chain-mez you to death now. More enemies have the tiny micro-mezzes that drop your often important offensive toggles now. On the other hand we also have IOs, inventable self-buffs and Incarnate Powers. By now the traditional 'me vs 3 Minions' model has gone essentially out the window.

So now, in the game today, how does a Blaster REALLY perform solo? Some of them do all right while others not as well. Some of the power sets lend themselves to safer and thus easier soloing the same as other ATs. /Dark has an 80' Immob that does MORE overall damage than a T1 blast. /Mental has the same thing. Most of the other T1 Secondaries are 50' range or melee only. I see this as part of the problem. Some sets aren't just better than others, they're CLEARLY better than others.

I think all of the Blaster sets need to be standardized a bit. Give ALL of them a crashless nuke or, if you keep the crash, make the thing SO powerful that the player will want to use the thing. Give ALL of them some sort of self-rez (I love Phoenix and use it as part of my attack chain at times) or else give them some other power that makes dying either less painful or less likely.

All of the other ATs have a way to deal with Mez whether it be mezzing the mezzer or simply being highly resistant to it. If Blasters are going to rely on damage as their 'offensive defense' then they need more of it. If someone comes up with something else I'm all ears. However remember that the more complicated a mechanic is the tougher it is to balance and the easier it is to break.

For me personaly, my only real big issue with blasters and mez.....is how it makes the auras i have on........ go off. Seriously i hate having to turn back on blazing aura and hot feet....which anchor you for no real good reason.
I rember a long while back when pvp zones first appeared....I would get mezzed but still have my auras going....so that brute who stunned me...didt usualy stay to pound on me a super huge amount due to lack of health.

But also I hate how as a defender or corruptor you have zero mezz defenses and cant heal your self....nope only put the shield on someone else...and the heals that do effect you personaly actualy give less then the blaster versions that do tons of damage to their foes and heal them.

...but then i also hate a few of the dark powers blasters can get because they require that the blaster to needs hit enemies at a point blank area effect....and have it hit at least 5 targets to get close to what a typical build up gives.

Anywise I am digressing....posting about what everyone already hates....

I guess i dont mind the current defiance resistance to mezz.....I just wish that maybe it would make the auras not turn off as well....and maybe allow a blaster to get some mezz defenses as they leveled.....

I might be the only one who thinks this....but after having defiance....wouldnt it make more sense that the more powerful the blaster becomes the more defiant they become.....ergo...wouldnt they start devoloping more resistance to mezz for example?

In game terms...that would be like a 1% increase to the blaster mezz resistance per level.....so at level 50 the blasters own defiance and leveling proves their resolve so that they would resist alot more things....50% of the time on and beyond what they normaly do....they can maintain their blasting defying the odds and doing what they do best.

Like I said....probably just me that thinks this way.