What makes a superhero a superhero?


Anti_Proton

 

Posted

I started a movie blog this year that focuses on superhero movies, but aside from just reviews, I've been writing a blog post every Tuesday just to talk about whatever's on my mind at the time and this week's post I tried to analyze basically what makes a superhero different from, like an action star or something else. I didn't mention it there, but I thought about City of Heroes.

To get back around to why I'm making this post here, when you create a superhero in the game, what makes them a "superhero" and not just a "hero"? Is it their costume? Their powers? A persona of something greater than their own self? Or do you prefer to make regular guys that fight crime, or something else that's not a "hero"?

__________________
Flights, Tights, and Movie Nights - my superhero movie blog. Reviewing over 100 superhero movies this year, new posts every Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday.


 

Posted

"Powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal man", which every PC in City has, even the supposedly "non-super" Natural ones.


Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

 

Posted

A hero who can punch out a frigging robot, that's what I say.


In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.

 

Posted

I dont think having super powers nessecarily qualifies you as superhero. I think intent and the scope of that intent is what qualifies you as a superhero. Having kick-*** powers just helps you realize your goals.



------->"Sic Semper Tyrannis"<-------

 

Posted

The same thing that separates the supervillains from the villains: PRESENTATION!

More seriously, it's a degree of larger than lifeness in supers. They're greater in spirit, in gloriousness, than lesser men. There's a bit of the epic in them. They'll take on the world, no matter the odds.


You want to know the secret of the world? It's this: Save it, and it'll repay you, every second of every day.
@Dr. Reverend - My DeviantArt Gallery
Crow Call - Gods of the Golden Age

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbawheat View Post
I started a movie blog this year that focuses on superhero movies, but aside from just reviews, I've been writing a blog post every Tuesday just to talk about whatever's on my mind at the time and this week's post I tried to analyze basically what makes a superhero different from, like an action star or something else. I didn't mention it there, but I thought about City of Heroes.

To get back around to why I'm making this post here, when you create a superhero in the game, what makes them a "superhero" and not just a "hero"? Is it their costume? Their powers? A persona of something greater than their own self? Or do you prefer to make regular guys that fight crime, or something else that's not a "hero"?

__________________
Flights, Tights, and Movie Nights - my superhero movie blog. Reviewing over 100 superhero movies this year, new posts every Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday.
I think the basis for a great Hero is the one moment where they make the choice to believe in something greater than themselves, all the truly memorable Heroes that last through the ages all have that moment that everyone remembers when they go from the simple guy just trying to make it in the world to a legend.


 

Posted

Being able to face down archvillains and/or global threats by one's self on a regular basis. And rarely ever being threatened by their nameless minions (regardless of any elevated status said nameless minions have).


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryu_planeswalker View Post
I think the basis for a great Hero is the one moment where they make the choice to believe in something greater than themselves, all the truly memorable Heroes that last through the ages all have that moment that everyone remembers when they go from the simple guy just trying to make it in the world to a legend.
well, that is great for heroes. for the question at hand, a superhero is very much the sturm und drang and general flambouyance of the setting and action. even if they lack super powers per se, the may have massively exaggerated versions of natural skills as in some martial arts films, and they fight odds that are unrealistic to think a person could overwhelm otherwise...by a lot. dirty harry isnt a superhero, despite him doing really well in gunfights, but wang chi and jack Burton are in "big trouble in little china"

oh, and to answer the other question. my characters tend to be a bit of column a and a bit of column b. There is some sort of logical consistency i feel is needed with my characters that if they really can go toe to toe with the kronos titan, they have to be more than just a well trained human. yes i know its all up with people and such, but its also outright stupid to me when a normal human with some special training can fight rularru or the kronos, It diminishes them by having that even be possible(as always, in my opinion, if you disagree, good for you, you go on and rp that, its your sub). there has to be an aspect of super to a hero fighting at the level of stuff we fight ingame or the suspension of disbelief just dies for me. so most of my characters have an element of the fantastic, dragons, angels, mad science, that sort of thing that justifies their power level. That said, to avoid making them just cardboard cutouts, I try to get into their minds to explain why they do what they do. everyone, no matter how powerful, has some aspect of average Joe/Josephine in them to make them grounded in something we can identify with, its something I try to put in my characters.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc_Reverend View Post
The same thing that separates the supervillains from the villains: PRESENTATION!
Basically this.

John McClane is a action hero because he doesn't dress up.

The Punisher is a super(anti)hero because he dresses up.

Obviously, there's more to PRESENTATION! than dressing up, but I think that's the core idea - being willing to even dress up is where PRESENTATION! starts.

And yes. PRESENTATION! must always be written like that.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake View Post
oh, and to answer the other question. my characters tend to be a bit of column a and a bit of column b. There is some sort of logical consistency i feel is needed with my characters that if they really can go toe to toe with the kronos titan, they have to be more than just a well trained human. yes i know its all up with people and such, but its also outright stupid to me when a normal human with some special training can fight rularru or the kronos, It diminishes them by having that even be possible(as always, in my opinion, if you disagree, good for you, you go on and rp that, its your sub). there has to be an aspect of super to a hero fighting at the level of stuff we fight ingame or the suspension of disbelief just dies for me. so most of my characters have an element of the fantastic, dragons, angels, mad science, that sort of thing that justifies their power level. That said, to avoid making them just cardboard cutouts, I try to get into their minds to explain why they do what they do. everyone, no matter how powerful, has some aspect of average Joe/Josephine in them to make them grounded in something we can identify with, its something I try to put in my characters.
While there's an argument about what makes one a hero to begin with, I fully agree with Rian's take on what makes one super. Whether a character be a super hoer or a super villain, what makes that character super is the super powers which define his abilities. I don't have anything against simply highly-trained humans being considered heroes, not at all. Real life has plenty of real heroes, and they deserve nothing short of complete respect. But that doesn't make them "super." It is a person's ideals, actions and achievements that make one a hero, but a person's super powers that make him a super.

I know this is not a popular position to take, but I have a VERY serious problem with ordinary people being put in a position to show up actual super-powered beings of a considerably higher power level. I know it's a "geek fantasy" to be able to roll with the big guys because you're just that awesome, but you end up with situations that either make the normal guy look ridiculously super-powered, such as being dropped out of a plane and surviving, or it makes the super guys seem much weaker by comparison if the ordinary guy can take it and keep chugging.

In a big way, "supers" are defined as much by what they're not as what they are, and what they're not is "normal." In a lot of situations, a character is demonstrated to be super-powered by being able to do or survive things a normal character couldn't. If you don't have, you end up with the Dragon Ball Z problem - you have attacks that seem to create pretty fireballs but never hurt anybody, to the point where you have to wonder if they're just for show. If you don't have a scale to measure things by, power becomes abstract, and the best scale there is is... Well, us. I couldn't take a rocket to the face and walk it off, but Crash can. I can't dodge bullets but Sam Tow can. I don't have an army of robots, but the Rook does.

Being more than ordinary people is what makes one who is already a hero into a SUPER hero.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
While there's an argument about what makes one a hero to begin with, I fully agree with Rian's take on what makes one super. Whether a character be a super hoer or a super villain, what makes that character super is the super powers which define his abilities. I don't have anything against simply highly-trained humans being considered heroes, not at all. Real life has plenty of real heroes, and they deserve nothing short of complete respect. But that doesn't make them "super." It is a person's ideals, actions and achievements that make one a hero, but a person's super powers that make him a super.

I know this is not a popular position to take, but I have a VERY serious problem with ordinary people being put in a position to show up actual super-powered beings of a considerably higher power level. I know it's a "geek fantasy" to be able to roll with the big guys because you're just that awesome, but you end up with situations that either make the normal guy look ridiculously super-powered, such as being dropped out of a plane and surviving, or it makes the super guys seem much weaker by comparison if the ordinary guy can take it and keep chugging.

In a big way, "supers" are defined as much by what they're not as what they are, and what they're not is "normal." In a lot of situations, a character is demonstrated to be super-powered by being able to do or survive things a normal character couldn't. If you don't have, you end up with the Dragon Ball Z problem - you have attacks that seem to create pretty fireballs but never hurt anybody, to the point where you have to wonder if they're just for show. If you don't have a scale to measure things by, power becomes abstract, and the best scale there is is... Well, us. I couldn't take a rocket to the face and walk it off, but Crash can. I can't dodge bullets but Sam Tow can. I don't have an army of robots, but the Rook does.

Being more than ordinary people is what makes one who is already a hero into a SUPER hero.
Serious question: what do you think of Batman?


Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

 

Posted

well, for me, an interesting character heavily tainted by bad writing and fan power inflation. the recent movies are good though. as are the games, generally. but once he starts being able to beat the guy who can fly into space and smash buildings in one hit, i kind of soured on him.


 

Posted

For me, it's generally some combination of special powers and/or a persona. I prefer to say persona instead of costume because I don't think it always has to be a costume. The Punisher is a great example, he doesn't really have a costume, at least I don't think he does, he just has a skull on his shirt. And yet he has an entire persona that's specific to "The Punisher" and is not "Frank Castle". In my blog, I mention the example of X-Men Origins: Wolverine, since it has a bunch of well known mutants, yet no costumes. But they all still have a persona that's different from their life as a regular person.

____________________
Flights, Tights, and Movie Nights - my superhero blog, reviewing movies and discussing questions about superheroes. New posts Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday.


 

Posted

I disagree with the "SUPER POWER" aspect as the defining trait. That just makes damn near every major Adventure, action, horror, and sometimes even sport story protagonist since the dawn of time a "Super hero" and what's the point of even naming things if the name has no meaning? Just because two guys both punch monsters doesn't mean they're the same thing. That's just a physical expression of the essential story-telling that is "Conflict" If we're going to regress to the most simple aspect, the physical conflict, why not just regress all the way to the conflict itself and every Lawyer, doctor, and troubled nobody ever written becomes a "super hero"? They all overcome odds, frequently deemed impossible. They're all amazing, and unique in some way, why can't they be "Super Heroes"?

I tend to fall on the side of PRESENTATION myself, but I think these rules are most essential

1: A super-hero story is an essentially modern thing.

It takes place in a city of some kind. The nature of what the super-hero is supposed to do hinges on opposing more complex things(barring the usual racist, xenophobic fervor of war-time comics dirtying up the writing of the day). They are creation of the most recent century and are not "Career adventurers". They live in a world where food comes from grocery stores and currency is the most important resource an individual can have. Classical heroes might "blow into town" or be "summoned from far away" or even be "Born into destiny". But super heroes live in their city and fight to protect it while trying to live among the people of their age. Which brings us to...

2:

A super-hero's life has some demarcation between "Fighting evil" and "Living your own life":
This doesn't mean "Secret identity" but it does mean there should be some aspect of who they are that isn't wrapped up in fighting evil. Classical heroes exist purely to fight the dragon. After they finish, their story is over. They live happily ever after and never do anything we'd want to read about. A super-hero has a life. A super-hero most likely even had one before setting off to fight evil. This is part of the "modern" aspect. They are one of us(or trying to be), who, through whatever twist of fate, are forced, not to travel to distant lands and start a new life, but to continue living their own life while using what they have to effect the world they live in. There's no dragon, but there is the nebulous problems we face in our modern world.

3:

A super hero is not fighting a specific threat, but a "Cause" or an "Idea" such as "Crime" or "disaster":
Super-Hero stories are episodic in nature, meaning a proper superhero never retires. He/She either dies, or resolves their personal dramas and rides off into the sunset to continue fighting evil with less angst. A super-hero does not have a reachable goal in mind. No point at which he/she is "Done" Because in the modern world, the problems aren't the bandit raids, the wild animals, or the mythological beast, things that can conceivably be "ended" but the evils of Crime, hatred, corruption, the idea of war itself, and constant looming disaster from all sides.

A nemesis is nice for one or two stories in a Super-hero's life, but it can't be the ONLY story. A super hero lives as one of us and tries to make OUR lives better, and so attempts to solve the problems WE face.


Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.

 

Posted

What makes a Superhero? Great question. "Superman" is the obvious icon. He has special abilities, but it is the "drive" to use them that is what really makes him a superhero. Likewise "The Tick" is a parody of all superheroes, and yet is a great superhero in his own right. Granted, not my first choice for saving the world, but I would accept his help. Especially if superman were busy. Because "The Tick" has "drive" to be "that guy". "Hancock", the reluctant hero, feels that "drive" even though at the beginning of his movie he hated that he felt he needed to do these things. "The Last Action Hero" while being fairly low powered (if you don't count his astounding levels of luck) also obviously was "driven" to be "that guy". I was not going to throw it in, but I might as well. "John McClean" from Die Hard series. He is "That Guy" and all he has is incredible good/bad luck going for him. Oh, and the "drive" to be "that guy".


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
Serious question: what do you think of Batman?
Let's be honest, between trying to be a walking Swiss Army Knife. Batman is very lucky. Tactics and skill will only take you so far, but Batman is at thepoint where he is a little too nonchalant about going against being that could kill him with a glance. No I personally like the Punisher's attitude toward super beings, in that they change the entire narrative of the battlefield. The Punisher verses the Sentry involved the Punisher running for his life. This should be every encounter Batman has with any villain that can stand up to Superman.


"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."

 

Posted

Batman has all the signs of high functioning PTSD. He ignores extremely dangerous stuff happening all around him, seemingly deep in thought about tactics/strategy, then mouths some cheesy one liner and charges in like Leroy Jenkins. Yeah, he aint all there.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton View Post
Let's be honest, between trying to be a walking Swiss Army Knife. Batman is very lucky. Tactics and skill will only take you so far, but Batman is at thepoint where he is a little too nonchalant about going against being that could kill him with a glance. No I personally like the Punisher's attitude toward super beings, in that they change the entire narrative of the battlefield. The Punisher verses the Sentry involved the Punisher running for his life. This should be every encounter Batman has with any villain that can stand up to Superman.
While I like Batman, I have to agree with this.

I do think of Batman as a superhero, but he should be way more low tier.

With Batman, it's almost as if the other supers are downplayed in their intelligence when compared to Batman. And his contingency plans are meh imo.

Knowing all that they do about Batman, if a superhero that knew of Bat's secret ID went evil, the first thing I'd say they'd do is incapacitate him (if not kill him).

Flash goes evil? Zoom to the batcave and disable Batman before he has a chance to put his own plans into effect!

Same with Superman.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

The Batman thing is more of a result of
1: "All-star" teams such as the Justice League and the Avengers flanderising characters,
2:Batman getting the "smart guy" role.
3: teams like that becoming more and more of the norm to the point that they set standards instead of defy them.


Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbawheat View Post
To get back around to why I'm making this post here, when you create a superhero in the game, what makes them a "superhero" and not just a "hero"?
Having a cape. Obviously.




Character index

 

Posted

I define a hero as someone who is willing to risk their own time, safety, and resources to help others.

A SUPERhero, on the other hand is the same, except that they have abilities, skills, talents, or access to resources beyond those of a normal person. In this definition, many other characters outside suprhero comics would also qualify: Naruto, The Power Rangers, and Herakles (although he could have been far more heroic had he not bee driven nuts half the time by Hera. The oldest example of a superhero wouldst have probably been the god-king Gilgamesh, born 1/3 man, 2/3 god. Try not to overthink the math on this one...


Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.

 

Posted

I think the definition on Wikipedia answers this question perfectly!

By strict definitions, characters require actual superhuman powers to be deemed superheroes. However, this term has also been applied to costumed crime fighters, characters without super powers, who perform the same functions as superheroes; examples of the latter being Batman and Green Arrow. Broad interpretations of the superhero genre included masked vigilantes, such as The Spirit, who fought crime with their wits, fists and guns rather than superhuman powers, while concealing their identities with only a mask, hat and coat.

In the traditional paradigm, superheroes supplement official law enforcement efforts to fight crime by using their extraordinary abilities to circumvent legal and physical limitations affecting the police. In addition to this basic function, superheroes also confront characters representing their polar opposites, known as supervillains, who employ comparable powers and abilities toward nefarious purposes.


 

Posted

I'd answer the question in two parts. A hero, to me, is someone who helps people with no thought of themselves at all, no ulterior motive or desire for reward, and with no self-interest (like, disarming a bomb that would have killed you isn't particularly heroic, but disarming a bomb that you otherwise would have been safe from is). Not just someone who's modest, though modesty is good too, but someone who literally gives no thought to themselves, only to the people they're trying to help. I don't think there are "heroes," as in a class of people set apart from others, so much as people have heroic moments: firefighters, soldiers, police officers, normal people suddenly pulled into a crisis and so on, who do everything they can to help and don't give a thought to what they're doing.

The "super" hero is someone who, thanks to the powers, the training and the resources that they have, can turn that mindset, those moments into a whole lifestyle. It's what sets Flambeaux, who's in it for the accolades and loses her motivation once they stop coming, apart from real superheroes. Of course, having those powers, training and resources is much, much easier in Paragon City than in real life.


"Now, I'm not saying this guy at Microsoft sees gamers as a bunch of rats in a Skinner box. I'm just saying that he illustrates his theory of game design using pictures of rats in a Skinner box."