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Quite the contrary. It's seems to me that NCSoft is more than fair.|
Originally Posted by Knights
Think about it. You can't tell me this doesn't seem a little unfair, even if you had to pay before and I realize that too.
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| But even some older players or even much younger players are now going to have to pay or play for an EXTREMELY long period of time just to use their good enhancements. Some young players aren't allowed by their parents to pay even for that little money. |
I have over 100 alts and only a handful use IO's.
If you want the 'exact same game' you used to pay a subscription for, you still have to pay a subscription.
But if you want to play the mostly everything free version of it, that is 'now' an option.
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Zwillinger, I'm VIP so this doesn't affect me, but I know several people who have logged in as premiums, realised their toons are completely unusable and given up.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Hello Knights and welcome back to the Community.
I certainly understand your feedback. It's something I've passed along to the development and business teams prior to this. If anything, know your feedback is being heard. That being said, as has been mentioned, the licenses are a mere 180 Paragon Points/Month. Also, I'm not sure when you left the game, but did you know that you can use an alternate build to play with as well? Visit any trainer and you can switch your active build to another one. Many of our returning players keep a SO/HO based build in that slot, in case they decide to revert to premium status from VIP. Rest assured, all content available for Free/Premium players is balanced around Single Origin enhancements being used. Thanks to the adjusted difficulty option, our VIP/Premium players who have access to IO's can enjoy the same content at a higher difficulty, if they so choose. Again, welcome back, and I will be sure to convey your sentiment along. |
Is it possible to find out why the decision was taken as it was to render IOs useless, rather than allowing them to give their enhancement bonuses (scaled down a bit if you want) but no set bonuses, thus leaving the toons playable.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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OK, fixed.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
That doesn't do any good. He sends my call straight to voicemail.
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| At the very least, what I coughed up should grant me a direct line to Positron's brain to regularly call him at home at 3:00am and nag him about Tankers. |
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Many people suggested that option also. I would not be opposed to it, as long as it doesn't affect the number of people buying the invention license. I think that license is probably a good money maker for the game.
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Originally Posted by Minotaur
Zwillinger, I'm VIP so this doesn't affect me, but I know several people who have logged in as premiums, realised their toons are completely unusable and given up.
Is it possible to find out why the decision was taken as it was to render IOs useless, rather than allowing them to give their enhancement bonuses (scaled down a bit if you want) but no set bonuses, thus leaving the toons playable. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
This has been said several ways, but perhaps the ramifications were not explored:
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...and "inducements" only work if they're something you really want.|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Part of the purpose of going to a Hybrid model was to offer inducements to subscribe or to purchase items from the Paragon Market.
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In this case it's particularly the IOs that you want -- other stuff you could take or leave. And lo and behold, it's particularly the IOs that are gated to induce people to pay some more money.
Looks to me like a good choice by the Devs.
If they offered junk you don't want, you wouldn't pay, would you?
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THIS|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
If they offered junk you don't want, you wouldn't pay, would you? |
*looks at windfalls*
*whistles innocently at the case in point*
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Well I have read the whole thread ,that for me is unusual I would say that all the answers the OP has received have been quite clear,if they cannot afford the $2 a month for the licence then SO,s are they way to go.I will finish with this saying ,You can please some of the people some of the time,but you cannot please all the people all the time.
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Unfair? So before you couldn't play your character at all if you didn't pay but you think it is unfair for them to expect you to pay something to play at a certain level?|
Originally Posted by Knights
I realize that. But even some older players or even much younger players are now going to have to pay or play for an EXTREMELY long period of time just to use their good enhancements. Some young players aren't allowed by their parents to pay even for that little money. Think about it. You can't tell me this doesn't seem a little unfair, even if you had to pay before and I realize that too.
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I think the only one being unfair here is you expecting something for nothing.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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"Realised their toons are completely unusable"|
Originally Posted by Minotaur
Zwillinger, I'm VIP so this doesn't affect me, but I know several people who have logged in as premiums, realised their toons are completely unusable and given up.
Is it possible to find out why the decision was taken as it was to render IOs useless, rather than allowing them to give their enhancement bonuses (scaled down a bit if you want) but no set bonuses, thus leaving the toons playable. |
Really? Seriously? No "slap in the face"? Surely you can come up with more absurd hyperbole than "completely unusable"?
As an alternative I offer the following which would be an actually true statement:
"...who have logged in as premiums and realised that they had slotted IOs in all their powers so now they had unenhanced powers and insuffiecient influence to get SOs for all their powers and found their gameplay completely unsatisfactory."
And yes, that does stink. But when you guys fly off the handle with absurd hyperbole you end up dealing with people pointing out how ridiculous it sounds instead of working towards resolving the real problem.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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And this is why I was opposed to this particular method when it was first revealed, and am still opposed to it now. If you want to win back returning customers, you need to put as few barriers in the way as possible. If someone left in the first place, there's a pretty good chance that their interest in the game had waned. If the first thing they see when they return is that the two characters they're allowed to have are both crippled due to effectively having no enhancements, and the very first thing they have to do in game is tediously respec/level up an alternate build (if they even realize that's an option), it's not exactly unlikely to lose them before the game really gets a chance to win them back over with all of the stuff that's been added/improved since they left.|
Originally Posted by Minotaur
Zwillinger, I'm VIP so this doesn't affect me, but I know several people who have logged in as premiums, realised their toons are completely unusable and given up.
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To give an example, my brother was the one who first introduced me to the game. He stopped playing a few years back, just for the general reason of 'not interested enough to keep paying'. He didn't leave because he was no longer interested at all - for example, he's come back and played with me on various reactivation weekends, and I still keep him informed on what's new in the game - but just because he wasn't playing enough to justify subscribing. He expressed some interest when I first told him about freedom, but I was ultimately unable to convince him to come back, and one of the big reasons was that all of his characters would be full of unusable enhancements. It wasn't the *only* reason, but in general he ended up feeling that there were too many hoops to jump through to be worth it. Again, it's all about barriers to entry. If you make it simple and easy to jump back in, people have the chance to become hooked again and you might regain a customer, even if they don't end up spending as much as they used to. If you toss obstacles like this in the path, you lose people before you ever really get a chance to sell them on the game again.
You don't need to just abandon the idea of selling invention licenses. You don't need to abandon the idea of tiered privilege unlocking. But you really do need to make it as streamlined and gentle as possible. Having IOs degrade gracefully in some way instead of being completely locked out would be a very good start.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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I'm not the only one that noticed that part and what it says, am I?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Hello Knights and welcome back to the Community.
I certainly understand your feedback. It's something I've passed along to the development and business teams prior to this. If anything, know your feedback is being heard. That being said, as has been mentioned, the licenses are a mere 180 Paragon Points/Month. Also, I'm not sure when you left the game, but did you know that you can use an alternate build to play with as well? Visit any trainer and you can switch your active build to another one. Many of our returning players keep a SO/HO based build in that slot, in case they decide to revert to premium status from VIP. Rest assured, all content available for Free/Premium players is balanced around Single Origin enhancements being used. Thanks to the adjusted difficulty option, our VIP/Premium players who have access to IO's can enjoy the same content at a higher difficulty, if they so choose. Again, welcome back, and I will be sure to convey your sentiment along. |
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@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
Switch to your second build. Buy SOs. Don't have enough inf? Hit up a friend. Don't have a friend? Pay the cash for the license to reactivate your IOs for a month.
It's simple, as long as you're not someone who's looking for something for nothing or someone looking a gift horse in the mouth. As far as I'm concerned, we don't need any more of those types hanging around since they never seriously had the intention of spending money on the game. If they do have the intention, the IO license makes a very good first purchase. HINT HINT.
Sincerely
A VIP customer who's paying to keep the game running.
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*Busts a gut laughing*
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
At the very least, what I coughed up should grant me a direct line to Positron's phone to regularly call him at home at 3:00am and nag him about Tankers.
. |
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Except that some of them had 2 builds full of IOs on their favourite toon, so they would have to junk a load of IOs to get a usable toon. They'd also used one of their few unlocks on a character they can't use.
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
"Realised their toons are completely unusable"
Really? Seriously? No "slap in the face"? Surely you can come up with more absurd hyperbole than "completely unusable"? As an alternative I offer the following which would be an actually true statement: "...who have logged in as premiums and realised that they had slotted IOs in all their powers so now they had unenhanced powers and insuffiecient influence to get SOs for all their powers and found their gameplay completely unsatisfactory." And yes, that does stink. But when you guys fly off the handle with absurd hyperbole you end up dealing with people pointing out how ridiculous it sounds instead of working towards resolving the real problem. |
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
If the OP is a young kid with only income is allowance I'm gonna say the same thing I say to all young kids, use your allowance to buy a prepaid credit card problem solved anyone any age can buy one and they come as low as $25. Also with this method you can effectively buy anything of the internet you want.
I think it's fair the way it is.
That said, I do have sympathy for people logging in and the first thing they encounter is realizing their IO build can't be used. The player probably hasn't played for a while and won't welcome making build choices and acquiring and slotting an entire build worth of SOs instead of running off and playing.
That said I think there are some solutions that won't make free to play too good.
Option #1: Returning accounts can use slotted IOs, but are prevented from slotting new IOs without a license.
With this option existing characters can be used as is, sort of as a benefit of previously paying, but they can't slot IOs so they can't change their build or use IO with new characters. This retains the value of IOs as a paid option but let's returning players run off and play their characters so they can get hooked on the game again.
Option #2: Returning accounts can use slotted IOs, but they don't get their set bonuses until they unlock full IO access. This can be combined with option #1.
One problem with returning players is that they are entirely unslotted which makes their characters unplayable. I think expecting them to run to the trainer, swap builds, completely rebuy their character, and buy SOs just to try the game is too much. This option let's them run off and play fine at normal difficulties in most cases I can think of.
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Maybe it's the mood I'm in but if old returning players are whining that paying 2 dollars a month for a service they used to pay almost 8 times more for.. then they really don't want to come back in the first place.
Though... I DO like Moonlighter's suggestions.. especially locking out the set bonuses.. how about 2-3 Tiers of an IO license? T1 is generic IOs, T2 is Sets but no bonus and T3 is full access.
"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat
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No, you aren't. As far as I know, this is the first time they've even indirectly stated that VIP content assumes the use of IOs and not SOs. Not that I expect there are a lot of Incarnates running around with T4s and SOs, but still.
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Originally Posted by Rabid_M
I'm not the only one that noticed that part and what it says, am I?
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No, they don't. That precisely the point.|
Originally Posted by Benchpresser
Maybe it's the mood I'm in but if old returning players are whining that paying 2 dollars a month for a service they used to pay almost 8 times more for.. then they really don't want to come back in the first place.
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The idea of free to play games is that you're trying to get people to play who wouldn't otherwise and then, once they're hooked, or hooked again, they start paying money.
If you turn people off right away, you've gone against the very principle you're trying to exploit.
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The problem here is communication. |
Originally Posted by Mazey
No, they don't. That precisely the point.
The idea of free to play games is that you're trying to get people to play who wouldn't otherwise and then, once they're hooked, or hooked again, they start paying money. If you turn people off right away, you've gone against the very principle you're trying to exploit. |
These users aren't seeing anything prior to selecting which characters to unlock to tell them that certain elements of their character are unavailable.
When you first use a "character unlock token" you could receive a pop-up that:
- checks whether you earned the IO sub via tier 7.
- checks whether the character has any items that are not accessible by default (Incarnate powers, IO's, etc)
- notifies you of that fact, and the options available.
The game is complex. F2P tiers make it even moreso. Returning players are sometime "jumping in the deep end" already. Helping people make informed decisions can make them feel more comfortable with occasionally opening their wallets to you.
I'm fine with the IO's being somewhat paywall-gated. I just wish the information was less easily missed.
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Actually No.. that's not quite the point. That is the point in a purely F2P model, which this game is NOT. It is a hybrid. The point here is that many micro-transactions will add up and generate revenue while at the same time you want to add incentives for Premiums to go full VIP. From the tone of the OP's post.. the ONLY reason he came back was he thought the game was purely F2P, once he found he wasn't, I'm guessing no amount would entice him to buy a IO license, even if it was a penny.|
Originally Posted by Mazey
No, they don't. That precisely the point.
The idea of free to play games is that you're trying to get people to play who wouldn't otherwise and then, once they're hooked, or hooked again, they start paying money. If you turn people off right away, you've gone against the very principle you're trying to exploit. |
As I've said, those players don't really want to come back and pay. The Hybrid model is aimed at those players who liked the game in the past but didn't play enough to justify $15 a month, but could justify $2-$5 a month. That is hardly going against the principle.
"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat
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The idea of a hybrid payment model, which CoH Freedom game is, is to give potential customers a better taste of what the game offers, but only in the hopes they'll spend money on the game and actually BE customers. Much like free samples in a supermarket.|
Originally Posted by Mazey
The idea of free to play games is that you're trying to get people to play who wouldn't otherwise and then, once they're hooked, or hooked again, they start paying money.
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Think of such a model as an extended trial with way more features and no time limit along with a vast discount on renting features that you didn't used to be able to rent a la carte.
If someone has played the game enough in the past to get an IOed out build, as the OP apparently has, they're well aware of the game and what it offers. They don't need a preview.
If they left in the past for any reason, and they're unwilling/unable to pay now even to unlock their IOs, they're NOT who the devs want to be catering to because they aren't really potential customers, not until they're willing and able to part with their money.
At heart, they're hypocrites. "Let me play your game for free so I know if there's anything I'd want to spend money on. But I refuse to spend money on IOs because I want them."
In any other business, they'd toss you on your butt. If you made such a declaration at the supermarket, that you had no intention of buying anything or had no money and was just there to mooch from the sample vendors, and then had the gall to complain about the quality of free samples, you wouldn't garner much sympathy from either the store management or the customers.
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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
The problem here is communication.
These users aren't seeing anything prior to selecting which characters to unlock to tell them that certain elements of their character are unavailable. When you first use a "character unlock token" you could receive a pop-up that: - checks whether you earned the IO sub via tier 7. - checks whether the character has any items that are not accessible by default (Incarnate powers, IO's, etc) - notifies you of that fact, and the options available. The game is complex. F2P tiers make it even moreso. Returning players are sometime "jumping in the deep end" already. Helping people make informed decisions can make them feel more comfortable with occasionally opening their wallets to you. I'm fine with the IO's being somewhat paywall-gated. I just wish the information was less easily missed. |
That is an excellent point Chase.. I didn't even think that.. and put that way.. yes there needs to be more communication.
"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat
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