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And now you're playing for free where before you would have not been able to play at all without paying the sub.|
Originally Posted by Knights
Even that is going to take a long time just to use IO's that I've earned throughout my game time.
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So, I'd say it's fair for you to either pay the 2 dollars a month, or get up to tier 7.
You worked for them before. And then when you went inactive on the sub, you couldn't play them at all. Same thing.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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It will take time? 5 or 10 minutes. Yeah.|
Originally Posted by Knights
Thanks a bunch for the feedback. I did know you can use a different build, though would take me some time rebuild the powers in the right order and such. The only problem with it is that, my Hero won't have as much potential as it used to be. I know it's free to play, I realize there has to be some drawbacks and I understand that. I just wanted to know why they would do this. I'm fine with all the other restrictions such as me not being able to publish my missions in the AE, that is a downside for me but I could live with that. But my IO's made my character. Nonetheless I appreciate your feedback and and glad that I am being heard. I mean all of this in the nicest way and I wouldn't want to get attacked by people saying i'm asking for too much, but I just want to be heard, and let NCSoft know how I feel about it. Thanks again.
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You won't be "as powerful"? You won't know until you try.
People disagreeing with your option is *NOT* the same as them "attacking" you. They just disagree with you on what you deserve/want.
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
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Actually I have tried. My Endurance drains like a sapper attacking me. and I have reduce end on it. -.-.
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Originally Posted by ItsJustJake
It will take time? 5 or 10 minutes. Yeah.
You won't be "as powerful"? You won't know until you try. People disagreeing with your option is *NOT* the same as them "attacking" you. They just disagree with you on what you deserve/want. |
The only times I've seen Endurance drain that fast is when I've forgotten to turn off Ninja Run before entering combat.
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It's only a real problem in 2 circumstances:|
Originally Posted by ItsJustJake
It will take time? 5 or 10 minutes. Yeah.
You won't be "as powerful"? You won't know until you try. People disagreeing with your option is *NOT* the same as them "attacking" you. They just disagree with you on what you deserve/want. |
1: you already have 2 fully IOd builds - say a stone tank with granite and pre granite builds.
2: the lack of IOs requires a complete redesign, eg a fire armor toon with -KB IOs who now has to take 2 or 3 more powers to get knockback protection.
And you won't be anywhere close to as powerful if you had a decent IOd build before, and yes end use does suffer unless you reduce your damage or recharge significantly by slotting seriously for end reduction. People who've been around pre I9 know how to do this because we had to, and some builds were borderline unusable before IOs.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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Try being in South America from where NCSoft won't accept credit card transactions because of the amount of fraud. (I don't think this has changed, but certainly used to be the case). You can subscribe on a time card but GL buying points/invention licence.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And if the issue is that $2. bucks once a month is a financial obstacle they have trouble overcoming, then they have bigger problems to worry about than a video game.
Oh and in regards to the hypothetical question "What if Mommy and Daddy won't pay for it?" That's called parenting. Mom and Dad have every right to tell their life sucking parasite that if he or she wants to spend money on a video game then he or she needs to get a job, get good grades, whatever conditions they want. They even have the right to say "No." without any explanation. The EULA still requires players be 18 or have a parent/guardians permission to play the game under Section 9. ACCOUNT ACCESS AND PERMISSIBLE ASSIGNMENT. |
To answer the person that said allowing the enhancement bonus from IOs was a bad idea due to frankenslotting, that's why I said it should be scaled down (much as happens when you exemp). The idea would be to put you in a similar position to if you had SOs. If you reckon a lvl 50 dual IO is a total of +53%, an SO is say 33-38 (+0/+3 can't remember exactly), scaling down by 1/3 would give you something close.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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The problem South Americans had was buying expansions from the website store. There was only one third party vendor that was authorized to sell CoH expansions and boosters and the vendor never stocked/offered the items to their South American customers.|
Originally Posted by Minotaur
Try being in South America from where NCSoft won't accept credit card transactions because of the amount of fraud. (I don't think this has changed, but certainly used to be the case). You can subscribe on a time card but GL buying points/invention licence.
To answer the person that said allowing the enhancement bonus from IOs was a bad idea due to frankenslotting, that's why I said it should be scaled down (much as happens when you exemp). The idea would be to put you in a similar position to if you had SOs. If you reckon a lvl 50 dual IO is a total of +53%, an SO is say 33-38 (+0/+3 can't remember exactly), scaling down by 1/3 would give you something close. |
I've seen plenty of players from South America explain how they were able to set up CC payments for their subs over the past 8 years but hit a brick wall trying to buy stuff from the NCSoft Website Store and the third party vendor.
Fortunately the Paragon Market doesn't use the NCSoft Website or that scummy third party vendor that refused to sell CoH expansions and boosters. They can simply make purchases using the method they already set up to pay their subscriptions.
I agree with the OP, Freedom does leave the Premium player feeling shortchanged. My experience is similar to the OP: I played for 3 years (~i6-i15) CoV first and later CoH. I have 28 toons on the Freedom server, 14 of them are level 50s, and the rest range from 17-45 (I only give this info so that people can get a frame of reference, it's not a brag session). After hearing about some of the changes to CoX, namely the free-to-play, I decided to re-install, give it a try and see what all the changes are about without having to worry about throwing $15 away on possible disappointment...after all, the game is over 8 years old now. So, I logged in, unlocked my 50s, grabbed my favourite toon and went to find a team. The first level 50 team I joined I was kicked out of because I couldn't hit anything, my defences kept toggling off because I had no energy and I kept dying all the time. I couldn't figure out what the hell happened to my toon. I looked in my enhancements and all of my hard earned IO sets were greyed out. So, I ask around and find out that if you aren't a VIP then you have to buy an Invention Licence to be able to use IOs or better. Or I guess the other possibility is to slot over them with SOs, but it would be a complete waste of 3 years to re-slot just so that I can test-play with the other level 50s. And yes I have full (or near full) IO sets for both builds on all of my 50s and most of my other toons. I worked hard to get those IOs and I would rather be willing to just forget about the game entirely than go through the busy work of downgrading them, especially when it's a test run to see what the game has become.
Now, to all you who say things like "You feel shortchanged for paying nothing?", you seem to have ignored the fact that that I've payed $540+ (plus taxes, CC fees, and other one-off purchases like respecs and server transfers) over those three years, so it's not like I have payed nothing and am demanding everything. I really only have issue with my IOs being locked, and maybe a bit that my 3 year veteran "status" just isn't enough (I had to go to 4 or 5 years?). If NCSoft wants to instill loyalty (re: Veteran Rewards) and bring back past players, then they should at least let the premium players have their hard earned IOs back. It just doesn't seem right to hamstring returning players by locking all of their IOs and forcing them to pay just to be able to play at the same level with other 50s. It seems a little Zynga-esk. I mean, doesn't anyone else see the irony in that? "Freedom" is free-to-play, but as a "premium player" in order to actually have a positive gaming experience I have to.....pay.....?
I would be more inclined to re-subscribe if I was able to get back into the game a bit and wanted more content/costumes/etc. You know, get a taste for it again and want more. But, right out of the gate my toons feel useless, and that negative experience pretty much guarantees that I will not be paying any money at all. In fact, I will likely uninstall and never return. For those who say "Good, we don't need you." well, you actually do need people like me because server population is dropping and eventually it will die out as more and more players leave for newer games. Why do you think that NCSoft changed their business model, because it's the cool thing to do and all the other gaming companies are doing it? The more returning players that are turned off, the more they will tell their friends to not bother and to take their business elsewhere. With the advent of social media sites, like Facebook, it has become very easy to get "word of mouth" around. There are many other free-to-play games out there that offer a full experience without having to pay anything. It's once the player is hooked is when they are usually willing to pay for the extras. It's not a matter of "I like it", "I don't like it" or "NCSoft isn't going to change it just because you <enter perceived entitlement issue here>", it's more that this issue around locked IOs that seems to be turning returning players away from the game more than anything else.
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Buddy, this is still a subscription play. it just has a "lite" version that's free to play. And from the sound of it, other than character slots, you are able to get the EXACT game you had when you last played for $2, in stead of $15, a month.|
Originally Posted by Buddy_the_Guy
I agree with the OP, Freedom does leave the Premium player feeling shortchanged. My experience is similar to the OP: I played for 3 years (~i6-i15) CoV first and later CoH. I have 28 toons on the Freedom server, 14 of them are level 50s, and the rest range from 17-45 (I only give this info so that people can get a frame of reference, it's not a brag session). After hearing about some of the changes to CoX, namely the free-to-play, I decided to re-install, give it a try and see what all the changes are about without having to worry about throwing $15 away on possible disappointment...after all, the game is over 8 years old now. So, I logged in, unlocked my 50s, grabbed my favourite toon and went to find a team. The first level 50 team I joined I was kicked out of because I couldn't hit anything, my defences kept toggling off because I had no energy and I kept dying all the time. I couldn't figure out what the hell happened to my toon. I looked in my enhancements and all of my hard earned IO sets were greyed out. So, I ask around and find out that if you aren't a VIP then you have to buy an Invention Licence to be able to use IOs or better. Or I guess the other possibility is to slot over them with SOs, but it would be a complete waste of 3 years to re-slot just so that I can test-play with the other level 50s. And yes I have full (or near full) IO sets for both builds on all of my 50s and most of my other toons. I worked hard to get those IOs and I would rather be willing to just forget about the game entirely than go through the busy work of downgrading them, especially when it's a test run to see what the game has become.
Now, to all you who say things like "You feel shortchanged for paying nothing?", you seem to have ignored the fact that that I've payed $540+ (plus taxes, CC fees, and other one-off purchases like respecs and server transfers) over those three years, so it's not like I have payed nothing and am demanding everything. I really only have issue with my IOs being locked, and maybe a bit that my 3 year veteran "status" just isn't enough (I had to go to 4 or 5 years?). If NCSoft wants to instill loyalty (re: Veteran Rewards) and bring back past players, then they should at least let the premium players have their hard earned IOs back. It just doesn't seem right to hamstring returning players by locking all of their IOs and forcing them to pay just to be able to play at the same level with other 50s. It seems a little Zynga-esk. I mean, doesn't anyone else see the irony in that? "Freedom" is free-to-play, but as a "premium player" in order to actually have a positive gaming experience I have to.....pay.....? I would be more inclined to re-subscribe if I was able to get back into the game a bit and wanted more content/costumes/etc. You know, get a taste for it again and want more. But, right out of the gate my toons feel useless, and that negative experience pretty much guarantees that I will not be paying any money at all. In fact, I will likely uninstall and never return. For those who say "Good, we don't need you." well, you actually do need people like me because server population is dropping and eventually it will die out as more and more players leave for newer games. Why do you think that NCSoft changed their business model, because it's the cool thing to do and all the other gaming companies are doing it? The more returning players that are turned off, the more they will tell their friends to not bother and to take their business elsewhere. With the advent of social media sites, like Facebook, it has become very easy to get "word of mouth" around. There are many other free-to-play games out there that offer a full experience without having to pay anything. It's once the player is hooked is when they are usually willing to pay for the extras. It's not a matter of "I like it", "I don't like it" or "NCSoft isn't going to change it just because you <enter perceived entitlement issue here>", it's more that this issue around locked IOs that seems to be turning returning players away from the game more than anything else. |
They do reward yo for how much you paid in the past. IOs, pre-freedom, represent being subbed over five years time. If you're three plus years, you might be fairly close. How many total reward tokens do you have? (click the button next to "unspent Tokens" on Character Select).
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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This is what I said all along, thread necromancy or not, it's still true.|
Originally Posted by Buddy_the_Guy
it's more that this issue around locked IOs that seems to be turning returning players away from the game more than anything else.
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It doesn't matter whether or not it's fair that old players should get their IOs for free, the important issue is that they're being put off the game before they have a chance to consider paying more money.
Are they whingy? Yep.
Are they acting entitled? Definitely.
Are they getting a much better deal than they did before? Absolutely.
But, more importantly, are they whingy entitled people with money?
And that one's a big yes.
Put them off before they can spend it, and you don't get it.
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
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I can explain part of the reasoning. |
Originally Posted by Knights
Thanks a bunch for the feedback. I did know you can use a different build, though would take me some time rebuild the powers in the right order and such. The only problem with it is that, my Hero won't have as much potential as it used to be. I know it's free to play, I realize there has to be some drawbacks and I understand that. I just wanted to know why they would do this. I'm fine with all the other restrictions such as me not being able to publish my missions in the AE, that is a downside for me but I could live with that. But my IO's made my character. Nonetheless I appreciate your feedback and and glad that I am being heard. I mean all of this in the nicest way and I wouldn't want to get attacked by people saying i'm asking for too much, but I just want to be heard, and let NCSoft know how I feel about it. Thanks again.
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If you could come back and play your characters exactly as they were before without paying anything at all, how many people would continue to pay a subscription fee.
Simply put, if they didn't gate SOMETHING behind having to pay for it, you'd have a whole lot of players playing for free and the game would make less money.
NCSoft (the game's parent company) has proven in the past that they are NOT reluctant to pull the plug on an unprofitable game. I don't think they would be swayed by sentimentality. Basically, the game has to remain above a certain profit margin consistently or it will quite simply cease to exist and our devs will find themselves out of a job.
If they were to give people too much for free, that scenario becomes more likely.
Looking at it like that, does $2 a month sound like a more reasonable price to have your characters at the same level they were before? Every player who spends even a couple bucks is helping the game stay alive.
Also, if you do that for long enough, you WILL eventually reach the point where your IOs are permanently unlocked. When you buy your first round of points you get a reward token. Every 1200 points you buy after that grants another one. Since you need to buy points to acquire the IO license, you are working toward having them forever every time you buy as few as 400 (you don't need to buy the 1200 all at once). You need 27 tokens to unlock IOs forever. If you subscribed for a significant amount of time in the past, you should have some tokens already, so it's just a matter of making up the difference.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Aside from getting caught by another resurrected thread:
The type who would complain about not getting everything they had before for free strike me as also being the type who would go into a restaurant and say:
"Hey, I've eaten here before. Since I gave you money in the past, feed me for free now"
The key difference here is that the devs basically responded with: "You want to eat for free? We can do that. Here's a grilled cheese sandwich. Oh, you want a steak? You're going to have to pay for that."
The hypothetical free restaurant in this case IS letting you eat for free. But you don't get to choose from the whole menu.
(actually kind of a good analogy)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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You might not know this, but you now have a second build on all your characters, which you can switch to at any trainer. You can then fill that build up with SOs without doing any harm to your slotted IOs. If you decide to sub or buy an IO license, then you can switch the build back.|
Originally Posted by Buddy_the_Guy
Or I guess the other possibility is to slot over them with SOs, but it would be a complete waste of 3 years to re-slot just so that I can test-play with the other level 50s.
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Since you left around I15, then you have another option which gives very good value. You can pick up Going Rogue boxed editions cheap on Amazon (make sure it's described as brand new, or factory sealed, so the code will be vaild.) Applying a Going Rogue code will give you a month of VIP, 400 Paragon Points which you can use later to buy IO licenses if you decide to let your sub lapse again, permanent access to side switching and Praetoria, plus a few other goodies as described here.
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Death is part of my attack chain.
Ever since Freedom has launched they have a lost a lot of initial momentum. Issue 24 and 25 really need to be at least doubles, or maybe one of them to be a home run to keep player interest.
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The fact that it's still going strong after 8 years should give you a clue about the chances of being disappointed after paying $15 to check it out |
Originally Posted by Buddy_the_Guy
I decided to re-install, give it a try and see what all the changes are about without having to worry about throwing $15 away on possible disappointment...after all, the game is over 8 years old now.
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| Now, to all you who say things like "You feel shortchanged for paying nothing?", you seem to have ignored the fact that that I've payed $540+ (plus taxes, CC fees, and other one-off purchases like respecs and server transfers) over those three years |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
Ever since Freedom has launched they have a lost a lot of initial momentum. Issue 24 and 25 really need to be at least doubles, or maybe one of them to be a home run to keep player interest.
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This is what cracks me up GG.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The fact that it's still going strong after 8 years should give you a clue about the chances of being disappointed after paying $15 to check it out
And pre-Freedom, you'd have had to pay another 15 bucks to check out the game again. |
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Originally Posted by Buddy_the_Guy
I agree with the OP, Freedom does leave the Premium player feeling shortchanged.
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Too funny.
I think the devs had been considering letting players unlock the Invention System in-game through Reward Merits, but decided against it (a few months back they accidentally let it slip off the training room server and it was live for about a month before being bug quashed)
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HAVE to agree. i think $2 is a fair price to pay for something YOU DIDN'T ******* HAVE ACCESS TO prior to COH Freedom. I'm glad they didn't agree to give EVERYTHING away.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Indeed. I supported this game across multiple accounts for years. At times, I gave more than my share of $15 a month.
The Paragon Rewards program doesn't even count that, not that I'd expect it to. But really, with the amount of cash some players have sunk into the game over the years, they should be getting more. At the very least, what I coughed up should grant me a direct line to Positron's phone to regularly call him at home at 3:00am and nag him about Tankers. . |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Greetings everyone,
We would like to kindly remind you all to not resurrect dead threads, however we encourage you to start new threads for such topics.
If necessary, please link to the previous thread.
Thanks for your understanding on this matter.
-=Mod9=-
Oh and in regards to the hypothetical question "What if Mommy and Daddy won't pay for it?" That's called parenting. Mom and Dad have every right to tell their life sucking parasite that if he or she wants to spend money on a video game then he or she needs to get a job, get good grades, whatever conditions they want. They even have the right to say "No." without any explanation.
The EULA still requires players be 18 or have a parent/guardians permission to play the game under Section 9. ACCOUNT ACCESS AND PERMISSIBLE ASSIGNMENT.