iTrial Rewards Linked to Damage
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-02-20 10:42 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Damage dealt is not a factor in the participation metrics; we have an official statement of that.
I've gotten a Very Rare before while standing around watching people fight Anti-Matter, so if anything should convince you that damage isn't a factor, let it be that.
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/this|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Damage dealt is not a factor in the participation metrics; we have an official statement of that.
I've gotten a Very Rare before while standing around watching people fight Anti-Matter, so if anything should convince you that damage isn't a factor, let it be that. |
however i do hate the trial reward mechanics, getting anything less than a rare feels insulting and a waste of my time to have run the trial
Haven't they stated that the qualification metric is a minimum threshold? After you've qualified to receive a reward isn't that reward randomly selected?
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Random is random.
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Originally Posted by Ultra_Violence
I did a BAF and ignored all my teammates and just let them die. Just spammed attacks, no active buffs or heals (just toggles). What happens? A Rare.
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I still despise the trial 'participation' thing. Yes, ok, so it stops people from door sitting. Big whoop, the kick button was already there for that.
I got a damn threads table, after horrific rubber-banding and lag stopped me from getting to the fights and right places in a TPN. Single most frustrating trial ever, even worse than the old Keyes which I did a total of once and then never did again until it got changed.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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/this.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Random is random.
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My piece of anecdotal evidence to coumterpoint OP's anecdotal evidence is:
I ran a BAF and a Lambda Saturday night on my level-shifted blaster. I shot
at everything targetable in sight and only got a Common in each case.
That was without any deaths in Lambda (ie. actively attacking stuff the whole
time), and a couple of BAF deaths (when the "adds team" lost control of said
adds, and a bunch of us squishies got bushwacked at the very end phase).
The darn trials must gauge participation on how many players you buff
(yes, I'm joking).
So, apart from basic participation criteria, the end drop is random.
Regards,
4
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Sorry, your in-game experience does not mach my own.
Random is random
"Can play" is not a binary. It's a float.
There are some pretty low values of "can play" out there.
--Fulmens
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Yes, I can verify that this was not a test, this was a random coincidence. Just 1 test run and you 'prove your point' is... just wrong. Do this -exact same- thing about 10-15 more times and see how much your results vary. If you get a rare every time, you've proven your hypothesis. If you don't, well, there you go.
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Originally Posted by Ultra_Violence
I decided to test it.
I did a BAF and ignored all my teammates and just let them die. Just spammed attacks, no active buffs or heals (just toggles). What happens? A Rare. It's hard enough getting people to work together on trials. Setting it up so that they may benefit from NOT working together is bad design. Can anyone else verify it still works like this? Am I going to regret pointing this out to people? lol |
My own experiences are not exactly a peer-reviewed scientific study, but I have a Controller and a couple Defenders whose DPS is laughably poor, and they still get rares at the same rate as my more damage-dealing characters.
Back before Keyes got nerfed, my Empathy Defender went on a series of Keyes runs in which he was so busy healing that he barely attacked at all, and he got quite lucky with the drops.
Anyway, I have no reason to doubt the official line: rewards are random.
Damage is key? But my two characters that have done the best are my ice/ice tanker and ice/ice defender. Something about ice? Or did they just get a lot of participation credit with their various powers?
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
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no, if you read the half a dozen or so posts following the OP then that should answer your question|
Originally Posted by ItsJustJake
Damage is key? But my two characters that have done the best are my ice/ice tanker and ice/ice defender. Something about ice? Or did they just get a lot of participation credit with their various powers?
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how the trial rewards work is theres 2 tables, a thread table and a random component table, there is a minimum threshold to get from the thread table to a component table, but once you pass that threshold your component table will be random
the thread table is to mostly stop doorsitters, but once you pass the threshold its completely random which rarity component you get
i hope that clears this up for you some
Rng.
What (some) people fail to understand is that one person's experiences are simply not a large enough sample to be statistically relevant. The dev's have said that once the participation threshold is passed that damage done, healing done, nose picking done, etc. does not effect the the reward table the player receives.
_________
@Inquisitor
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This, alas. |
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Random is random.
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I've had a couple of support characters do relatively well with iTrial component drops, while having others that had to scrape and scramble for every single Rare bit they needed just to get their level shifts.
My own Empath? She has across-the-board T3s now, but it took about two months of off and on trialing to do. She got one Rare from a BAF and one from an Underground. The other three had to be constructed... Two from Emp merits and one from Uncommons and threads. She went many runs in a row with nothing but Common drops.
The thing is, that kind of odd luck isn't limited to support types. My Nightwidow had pretty much the same problem. I got so frustrated with Cho's endless streak of Commons and Uncommons, that I ended up downgrading the one and only VR she ever got into the last Rare she needed, just to have it over with and finally be "finished" with her. o_0
So, yeah... Random is random, and sometimes the RNG is a real son of a female dog about giving you what you need. Save your Emps. They're the light at the end of the tunnel.
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
Random is random.
At one point in incarnating my Mind/Emp Controller out he got Rare, Very Rare, Very Rare, Rare (or something similar...forgot now but have all stats at home).
Then he got a bunch of commons/uncommons
The only toon that I've had "huge" issues with getting Rares/Very Rares was my DA/DM tanker. Throughout 40+ itrials he's only received 1 Very Rare and like 3 Rares I think....the rest UC/C.
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This... is more significant a factor than "random is random."
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Originally Posted by ketch
Haven't they stated that the qualification metric is a minimum threshold? After you've qualified to receive a reward isn't that reward randomly selected?
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How about "ITrials are like a box of chocolates, ya never know what yer gonna get."
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
This... is more significant a factor than "random is random."
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_________
@Inquisitor
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Not only that, but independent testing also debunked that myth. People on both sides of the participation metric debate concluded that the magnitude of damage dealt had no effect on whether one satisfied the participation algorithm or increased the chances for a better drop.
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Damage dealt is not a factor in the participation metrics; we have an official statement of that.
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The whole problem with your premise is that it never worked like that.|
Originally Posted by Ultra_Violence
It seems the rewards are still linked to how much damage you do. I thought they removed that after all the complaints in Beta. They were trying to prevent leeching. From what I've seen the players monitor that fairly well by themselves.
I was wondering my my Corruptor with /Pain was getting only commons/uncommons while all my other incarnates regularly got rares/very rares. After 30-40 trials (I got to Tier 3 in all 4 using nothing but Commons/Uncommons and 1 rare I got from a UGT where it had to give me something good) I decided to test it. I did a BAF and ignored all my teammates and just let them die. Just spammed attacks, no active buffs or heals (just toggles). What happens? A Rare. It's hard enough getting people to work together on trials. Setting it up so that they may benefit from NOT working together is bad design. Can anyone else verify it still works like this? Am I going to regret pointing this out to people? lol |
Still, do it another dozen times or so and then compare results.
As long as you have no issues with being a selfish jerk that is.
*looks at OP's signature* Yeah, you'll have no issues with it.
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i make stuff...
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Its worth noting that given what I know about the system, everyone who thought that "tagging" helped drops, to the point of being absolutely convinced of it and practiced it because they thought it got them better drops, were all actually slightly penalizing themselves and more importantly the entire rest of the team with that behavior due to the nature of the participation algorithm. If they did happen to get really good drops, it was entirely coincidental, but they still skewed the odds downward for everyone else by probably subtly reducing league participation scores in several ways.
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
The whole problem with your premise is that it never worked like that.
Still, do it another dozen times or so and then compare results. As long as you have no issues with being a selfish jerk that is. *looks at OP's signature* Yeah, you'll have no issues with it. |
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There was a problem initially where incarnate experience was awarded based on damage done by the team a player was on instead of split evenly across the league. It was possible then for the league leader to group the high damage types in one or two teams causing those teams to get significantly more experience than the teams made of support types. Most honest league leaders would arange the teams in a more balanced way. It's probable that the high damage teams were also getting more drops.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Its worth noting that given what I know about the system, everyone who thought that "tagging" helped drops, to the point of being absolutely convinced of it and practiced it because they thought it got them better drops, were all actually slightly penalizing themselves and more importantly the entire rest of the team with that behavior due to the nature of the participation algorithm. If they did happen to get really good drops, it was entirely coincidental, but they still skewed the odds downward for everyone else by probably subtly reducing league participation scores in several ways.
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Even that, however, didn't effect the reward table each player received at the end.
_________
@Inquisitor
They have a perception problem.
People perceive damage influences rewards then act accordingly.
The reality of it is uniportant.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
It seems the rewards are still linked to how much damage you do. I thought they removed that after all the complaints in Beta. They were trying to prevent leeching. From what I've seen the players monitor that fairly well by themselves.
I was wondering my my Corruptor with /Pain was getting only commons/uncommons while all my other incarnates regularly got rares/very rares. After 30-40 trials (I got to Tier 3 in all 4 using nothing but Commons/Uncommons and 1 rare I got from a UGT where it had to give me something good) I decided to test it.
I did a BAF and ignored all my teammates and just let them die. Just spammed attacks, no active buffs or heals (just toggles). What happens? A Rare.
It's hard enough getting people to work together on trials. Setting it up so that they may benefit from NOT working together is bad design.
Can anyone else verify it still works like this? Am I going to regret pointing this out to people? lol
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