Discussion: Featured Items at the Paragon Market - 2/14/12
By
2short2care,
Posted on: 2012-02-14 10:50 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Puppy, I addressed the issue with the developers in one of my previous posts, and I do agree with you that what we are seeing is the machinations of a marketing division having more influence on how we play City Of Heroes. As far as what I said about modern day corporations, I think their actions speak for themselves. I can use the incident where the creators of Eve: Online sent emails around the office that showed they had a very poor attitude toward their customers and viewed them as petulant children saying one thing and doing another. It isn't until people act with their money are these arrogant people checked. I'm only trying to persuade other people into not buying these products Paragon is offering because the product bundles are getting worse and worse. I can't understand how many people that play this game seemingly have no problem throwing their money away, at least the ones posting in this forum, that is.
My congratulations to the art team for creating such a wonderful costume set.
My condolences to the art team for creating a costume set that Marketing has decided won't get the use it should.
It's only gambling if there's a good chance you'll get nothing for your money. I'm sorry if you think that enhancement unslotters, super inspirations, etc., are nothing, but just because you don't like what you bought, it doesn't make it gambling. You still bought something useful, just not useful to you.
I bought baseball card packs as a kid, and though I got a bunch of players I didn't care one way or the other about, it wasn't gambling then, and it's not now.
Try using a less inflammatory, and more appropriate term to describe your displeasure with the superpack system. Don't like the way the system works, don't use it. Pretty easy when it's optional, even if you like the costume.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
I love the Super Packs.
I came home and bought 37 before logging in.
No joke.
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It's a division that's always going to be here. =/ I keep it in perspective for myself, by|
Originally Posted by End Sinister
Puppy, I addressed the issue with the developers in one of my previous posts, and I do agree with you that what we are seeing is the machinations of a marketing division having more influence on how we play City Of Heroes. As far as what I said about modern day corporations, I think their actions speak for themselves. I can use the incident where the creators of Eve: Online sent emails around the office that showed they had a very poor attitude toward their customers and viewed them as petulant children saying one thing and doing another. It isn't until people act with their money are these arrogant people checked. I'm only trying to persuade other people into not buying these products Paragon is offering because the product bundles are getting worse and worse. I can't understand how many people that play this game seemingly have no problem throwing their money away, at least the ones posting in this forum, that is.
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remembering something very important: with this optional content, we're not buying that
content.
What our money is actually paying for, in best case, is a few entries in a database on
their end, or at worst, a bitflip of 0 to 1, that says you couldn't use/didn't have them
before and now you can/do. That's it. When you make the mistake of thinking you're
paying for the *parts* and such-like, you start thinking of them as tangiable items, which
isn't what you're getting - these 1s you're paying for are useless anywhere else, and will
be useless when these servers are no longer accessable(and something you'll get for free
the day this service closes and the emulated servers go up.)
It's hard to get less for your money than that. The question that divides us, is how much
we each value those 1s when these new offers come up. =/
In the meanwhile though, here: 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Have some on me. They're not as useful, but at least they're free!
Puppy, at least you're honest about the system. A previous poster kept bringing up gambling with baseball cards. Well, baseball cards and virtual items are not the same. While you may not get the player you like in a pack of cards, one or many of those supposed no names may one day become a big star and their respective baseball cards should see some increase in value. Besides potential profit, you have a physical object in the real world that has real value. Virtual clothing items, as Puppycrusader said, will have absolutely no value once City Of Heroes is shut down. I am well aware of what I pay for this service and I refuse to pay more than its subscription cost, fifteen dollars a month, for either points or V.I.P. access.
I mean, for God's sake, if one is to gamble, gamble those dollars for real online. At least there's a chance of winning something useful.
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Sorry to hop into this discussion so late, but this is an extremely incongruous list. Most of the things on that list players already have to pay for. So even we players who are against super packs are well aware of the extent to which we fund the development of the game. Just because we are fine with one form of microtransaction doesn't mean we necessarily should settle for another.|
Originally Posted by Dark Energon
Wonder why all of a sudden there is such a surge in new content the last few months?
Like, First Ward? New Dark Astioria? CoT Make over? CoT Costume pack? Steam Punk Pack? Gunslinger Pack? Retro Si-Fi pack? Pocket D pack? Beam Rifle? Titan Weapons? Street Justice? Staff Fighting? Beast Mastery? Time Manipulation? IDF Costume set? Halloween Trail? Halloween Costume pack? Carnival of Shadows costume set? Rocket Travel? Magic Carpet Travel? Coyote Run? German Shepherd pet? Incarnate trails? .... I think you get the point.. all this costs man power to think up, to create, to test and to implement. |
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
You don't want the game to make a nice profit? means u don't want new items in the market each week, means u don't want as much content as we are getting atm.
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
I bought everything i bought with Paragon Points,... i got all this for free cause i can't afford to spend my money atm...
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Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
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Yeah. Some people have likenened it to entertainment expenses, like buying a pizza, and I|
Originally Posted by End Sinister
Puppy, at least you're honest about the system. A previous poster kept bringing up gambling with baseball cards. Well, baseball cards and virtual items are not the same. While you may not get the player you like in a pack of cards, one or many of those supposed no names may one day become a big star and their respective baseball cards should see some increase in value. Besides potential profit, you have a physical object in the real world that has real value. Virtual clothing items, as Puppycrusader said, will have absolutely no value once City Of Heroes is shut down. I am well aware of what I pay for this service and I refuse to pay more than its subscription cost, fifteen dollars a month, for either points or V.I.P. access.
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think that's a fair perspective too though. If they feel the entertainment satisfaction is
worth the money PS is charging for <whatever>, that's as valid a valuation as anything
else, as long as they know what they're getting. Personally, at *these* prices, I'll almost
always choose the pizza instead, and I guess you're the same - I really wish more - or
most or even all - people felt that way, but obviously they don't, so here we are.
The one I simply can't get along with, is when people say they're buying all this stuff
just to "support the company." That drives me nuts. Like a terrible movie said, it's a
business. This ain't unicef. There's nothing inheriantly noble about paying a business
for something you don't even want, just because.
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The 'gamble' I'm making is that the added income Paragon Studios is making will help in keeping it open for years to come. That's more than enough of a 'gamble' for me to make.|
Originally Posted by End Sinister
Puppy, at least you're honest about the system. A previous poster kept bringing up gambling with baseball cards. Well, baseball cards and virtual items are not the same. While you may not get the player you like in a pack of cards, one or many of those supposed no names may one day become a big star and their respective baseball cards should see some increase in value. Besides potential profit, you have a physical object in the real world that has real value. Virtual clothing items, as Puppycrusader said, will have absolutely no value once City Of Heroes is shut down. I am well aware of what I pay for this service and I refuse to pay more than its subscription cost, fifteen dollars a month, for either points or V.I.P. access.
I mean, for God's sake, if one is to gamble, gamble those dollars for real online. At least there's a chance of winning something useful. |
These statements? Are ludicrous and insulting. You don't like this system? That's fine. Keep your opinion to yourself and stop trying to insult people with a faux, subtle tone. We get it, the people against the Super Packs are unhappy people are buying into them.
But, we enjoy them. We don't feel we're gambling, and are enjoying what we're getting out of it. I know I sure as heck am, which is why I got 24 right off the bat the moment I got online.
Not complaining about less people with Elemental Order, either.
Regardless, quit trying to paint a bad image. This is not gambling, in the least. And the 'item of worth' we're getting is, hopefully, extending CoX's lifetime.
Communist.
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and this? isn't that the normal non-sale bonus we have always gotten on buying points? Or is there some kind of bonus on top of what we normally get that is not listed on that page? This sounds to me like you are trying to make us think there is a big sale going on to buy 'all sales are final' points, only to be doubly disappointing when we find out that it is normal price. 10, 15, and 20% on 15, 50 and $100 purchases respectively. The sale, like cookies, are a lie. |
Originally Posted by Beastyle
Get Bonus Paragon Points™!
Get up to 20% more! Buy Paragon Point™ bundles that get you 120, 600, and even 1,600 bonus points! Shop Now |
For those who say you get all this great stuff even if you don't like it, it's still great stuff.
In this case, if it is something I will NEVER use, then it is worse than nothing, because not only do I find it useless, but now it is taking up space in my in-box. I don't even want to look at that box on beta anymore because it's so full of garbage I will never use. It's bad enough to start with before I ever got any of those packs, but after seeing how many it would take to get that dumb wolf pet, that box is so full I couldn't find anything in there even if I did want to try to use something. ...and $25 is way too much for a costume pack, and $700+ is way too much for a pet, especially one that isn't real, and doesn't do anything. I wouldn't pay that much for one that is real and had all it's papers and shots! Let alone for one that does nothing but kill my buff pet.
the only way I would ever even think about buying one is if it was bought with reward merits, something else I will pretty much never use.
They said they would put out another way to get that costume, so I will wait for that, the wolf I never cared about anyway, I was just being a masochist opening them until my brain and arm hurt, morbid curiosity. The rest I don't want, so won't ever buy one.
True Alt-o-holic, so... way too many to even think about listing =p
My AMV.org Page
What's left of my Youtube page
Think-Shirt Page 1 & Think-shirt Page 2
Reppu, it is gambling, plain and simple. Albeit, it's worse than traditional gambling because you're not gambling for potentially more money and possibly recouping the money you put in, but you are gambling for a chance to win a virtual item with no potential to regain your lost money. I can't tell you how to spend your money, it's yours and yours alone. I only wish that those without much disposable income would be a bit wiser in spending their money. It only hurts those who could otherwise use their money in a more meaningful way such as for food, rent, or utilities. It's the very attitude of, "It's not gambling," that will get some people into financial trouble. On the corporate end, Paragon is reaping even more of a profit now than with traditional costume packs and that equals less value for more money.
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It's not gambling. A gamble is paying something with the chance of receiving something, or obtaining nothing. If your logic did apply, the Pokemon CCG would be outlawed because it promotes 'gambling'. And let's face it, the majority of cards in recent Pokemon sets are horribad garbage. You buy boosters for the Super Rares that are one in a box. Of TWENTY FOUR PACKS.|
Originally Posted by End Sinister
Reppu, it is gambling, plain and simple. Albeit, it's worse than traditional gambling because you're not gambling for potentially more money, possibly recouping the money you put in, but you are gambling for a chance to win a virtual item with no potential to regain your lost money. I can't tell you how to spend your money, it's yours and yours alone. I only wish that those without much disposable income would be a bit wiser in spending their money. It only hurts those who could otherwise use the money in a more meaningful way such as food, rent, or utilities. It's that very attitude of, "It's not gambling," that will get some people into financial trouble. On the corporate end, Paragon is reaping even more of a profit now than with traditional costume packs, that equals less value for more money.
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Sorry, your dictionary definition is wrong. If you ONLY want the Elemental Order pieces and NOTHING else, you can faux an excuse of it being 'gambling', but that's untrue. You ARE receiving something in exchange, and you are WELL AWARE of what it will be in advance. You are not going at it blind, you are going in FULLY AWARE of the chance you may not get that item YOU want, but are WILLINGLY ACCEPTING THIS the MOMENT You hit the purchase button, as well as WILLINGLY ACCEPTING the other outcomes.
It is not gambling. Period.
And piss off. You're doing that 'holier than thou' attitude about people spending money in ways they want to, but aren't ways you think WE should. Do NOT use hypocritical statements like "I can't tell you how to spend your money, it's yours and yours alone." and then IMMEDIATELY pull bull like " I only wish that those without much disposable income would be a bit wiser in spending their money. It only hurts those who could otherwise use the money in a more meaningful way such as food, rent, or utilities."
Jerk.
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Actually no. Even with "guaranteed" prizes, it's still gambling. The same way any "collectible" game is. You're putting money down for a "chance" to get something you want.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
It is not gambling. Period.
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Granted, the odds as you go along are better for getting specific items. But it's still down to the RNG what you're getting.
And yeah, it's your money, do as you will. Simply do it with your eyes open.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
You said it yourself, "they likely gained more " ... that was the point ... it's buisness! Yes, I fully understand as a player (not a gamer) that "I want'em all" but logistically, that is just not possible in today's market. Business's are loosing money in so many different ways, they have to make up for it some fashion. So, are player's fashionable? Yep, always has been however, as the market changes ... so must our games.
People we cannot live on our 5, 6, 7 years'+ ago Vet lives and think we will and must live the lavish life. We must move forward or move on. THAT is the name of the game.
Edited: spelling (I'm sure I still messed up somewhere) 8)
If its broke, don't fix it... I like the chaos!
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Except I'm happy with every result I got. It's gambling to some, fun for others. And that's why the 'legal threats' from bozos who want to try to strong-arm Paragon to put the Elemental Order set on the market can go jump off a bridge into a pit of ravenous bunnies.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Actually no. Even with "guaranteed" prizes, it's still gambling. The same way any "collectible" game is. You're putting money down for a "chance" to get something you want.
Granted, the odds as you go along are better for getting specific items. But it's still down to the RNG what you're getting. And yeah, it's your money, do as you will. Simply do it with your eyes open. |
I bought a 24 pack. Got all of the costume, 12 ATOs, 12 personal rezes of which I have used 3 already (I am so bad at this game), 8 rez others which I will use when my horrible game play gets my teammates killed, and 975 merits. I also got a bunch of team and dual inspirations which will sit in my email box until they add a separate holder so they are where I can get to them on a toon.
I consider all that well worth the 12 dollars I paid for them.
Global is @honcho
On Champion
Living Coal LV 50 Fire/Fire Tank
Nature Boy LV 41 Earth/Kin Cont
Great Wacko LV 34 Robot/FF MM
plus many alts
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Please note that this progression only works in a logical sense if there is nothing else in the super packs besides the costumes (since your premise is that there is a "degradation of costume packs" at the end of which we're gambling for the costumes, yes?). That's not the case. There's more in the packs than costumes, and you know it.|
Originally Posted by End Sinister
The degradation of costume packs alone comes to mind. First, we had Super Boosters which included a costume set, emotes, auras, and a temporary power. Then it was watered down to half the price for all the costume pieces, but many of the former emotes, auras, and temporary powers, became more expensive cumulatively than that missing five dollars, such as Super Tailor access. Now, we have a gambling system where people are paying more than what a current costume bundle alone costs.
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| It is striking how people refuse to face facts. |
You can start with actual case law to support allegations of illegal behavior based on how this has been implemented. You, or Astra, or Darth Krankypants, or whoever. I don't care. (Don't expect legal discussions to last past the morning, though. That topic was explicitly shut down during beta discussions because NCSoft actually does employ some of those "lawyer" people, who reviewed the implementation of this new feature and who actually know about how laws work.)
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| We are getting less and less for our money, it's as simple as that. |
But if you'd like to go back to the facts and show everyone how the amount of content released for our subscription dollars has decreased since the launch of CoH:Freedom, you're welcome to do so.
No hand-waving "it's as simple as that," though. You want to tell people to face facts? Present facts.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
After reading through this topic I have the sudden craving for CHEESE!!??
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If you're having fun, then you're doing well at the game |
Originally Posted by Honcho
I am so bad at this game
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
By the way, there really should be some kind of noise when you flip each card 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Been loving the costume stuff lately and this new set isn't half bad but the way you're making us get them, I'm sorry but I don't want to waste money on the worthless stuff (to a player like me) and having my wife with an account too and we own everything so far as far as costume packs, extra powers etc, this will be our first pass until it's avail outright.
Feels like a kick in the teeth, no one was buying that stuff on the market but a very small few so you work out a pack to force us to buy them if we want more costume options. Had planned on buying more points but not for this, and lately been a real decline in our numbers, my wife suggesting turning off our VIP and she's NEVER suggested that before...
You guys need to quit the "gimmicks" you're making us uneasy
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So he doesn't have any idea how much money they're actually making, but you do?
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Originally Posted by Astra
You have no idea how much money they're actually making, which is quite a bit.
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_________
@Inquisitor
Sorry, not interested in gambling. I will never buy one of these, even with free points. Never.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
Allow me to clarify that I never once brought the legality of these packs into question. They are perfectly legal. I had said they were unethical. The main draw of these packs is primarily the new costume set and the archetype I.O.'s (which you may get one of per pack). The new items are becoming blatantly over priced for what is offered. Why on earth would Paragon Studios package a costume set that would normally go for the equivalent of five dollars into a randomly generated item pack? The only logical conclusion to come to is that they did it to get more money for the same content. It begs the question, "Why isn't what I've been paying up until now good enough anymore?"
v.intr.1. a. To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest.
b. To play a game of chance for stakes.
2. To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.
3. To engage in reckless or hazardous behavior: You are gambling with your health by continuing to smoke.
v.tr.1. To put up as a stake in gambling; wager.
2. To expose to hazard; risk: gambled their lives in a dangerous rescue mission.
n.1. A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.
2. An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk: I took a gamble that stock prices would rise.
You -are- gambling on these items.
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