With Freedom an apparent financial success...


Aura_Familia

 

Posted

Is any of that money going to go into non-cosmetic improvements? Things like an improved search interface, Praetorian flashbacks or upgrade of existing flashback system maybe, maybe some base lovin'? I'm all for more shiny and more stories, don't get me wrong, but I don't hear anything about eventually bringing anything else up to date?


 

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Well, we just had a UI upgrade for the tailor/character creation together with Freedom, so that probably will have to last a while. The base builder got Shift-dragging and Ctrl-dragging not long ago. I22 has the LFG tool expanded to include all the TFs/SFs in the game. So there is some stuff happening.

As to the specific things you want, you should probably ask the Devs directly.




Character index

 

Posted

Question: Besides the game not keeling over, what makes you think Freedom was a financial success? What little data I have available from after Freedom's launch (and public data is pretty scant and released on only a quarterly basis) suggests that there was pretty much no change in revenue at all after Freedom's launch.


 

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How would you upgrade the existing flashback system? The way it stands at the moment, it seems fine to me.


@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!

 

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Originally Posted by EU_Damz View Post
How would you upgrade the existing flashback system? The way it stands at the moment, it seems fine to me.
There are some Unlockable Contacts over on Redside that you can't "get to" through the Flashback system, because completing the arc of the pre-req Contact(s) doesn't get you an "introduction" to the Unlock Contact. The Radio in Port Oakes is the most obvious example of this (but by no means the only one).

Another example of expanded Flashback functionality would be enabling the ability to go back and run Newspaper/Police Scanner missions in particular level ranges so as to get the corresponding Bank/Mayhem missions via Flashback.


It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

 

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Originally Posted by Quinch View Post
Is any of that money going to go into non-cosmetic improvements?
So... like Stalker and Gravity changes, an expanded LFG queue, the much-requested non-league Incarnate path, and a Settings button at login, not to mention several new power sets? Just to name the features currently in the i22 beta, for example.

If you have a specific feature you want, feel free to suggest it (although that forum's a little further down), but it's silly to imply that we aren't already getting improvements.


 

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Originally Posted by RuthlessSamael View Post
Question: Besides the game not keeling over, what makes you think Freedom was a financial success?
Rate of shiny. They've been cranking out new costume pieces and powersets much faster than before - making those takes resources, which need to be funded out of somewhere, presumably the micropayments.

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Originally Posted by EU_Damz View Post
How would you upgrade the existing flashback system? The way it stands at the moment, it seems fine to me.
Covered that in the {somewhat outdated} wishlist;

Add an AE-style TF mode for flashbacks. Use the big crystal to start a flashback in the challenge mode, and the smaller ones to start it with a malleable team. {on review, a simple two-tab window for "start in normal mode" and "start in task force mode" system might be simpler}

Rework the Ouroboros list by contacts, rather than by arcs. Then, list all the missions the contact has, branched by a} Arcs b} Badge missions c} One-off indoor missions and d} Street hunts and multi-part missions that start with street hunts. Furthermore, for C and D, once a mission has been completed, calling the contact would give you another random mission in that branch, favoring missions the player hasn't completed yet. This, combined with an AE-style TF mode and target zone bias, would likely provide a much higher level of exposure to non-arc missions that would otherwise be overlooked in favor of more convenient repeatable missions.


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Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
So... like Stalker and Gravity changes, an expanded LFG queue, the much-requested non-league Incarnate path, and a Settings button at login, not to mention several new power sets? Just to name the features currently in the i22 beta, for example.
Again, that's content {which is, again, a Good Thing}. But it doesn't improve the framework of the game.

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Originally Posted by Silver Gale View Post
Well, we just had a UI upgrade for the tailor/character creation together with Freedom, so that probably will have to last a while. The base builder got Shift-dragging and Ctrl-dragging not long ago. I22 has the LFG tool expanded to include all the TFs/SFs in the game. So there is some stuff happening.
Huh, okay. The LFG system expansion is news to me, but I've not kept up on upcoming issues lately. What do you mean with shift and control-dragging, though?


 

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Huh, okay. The LFG system expansion is news to me, but I've not kept up on upcoming issues lately. What do you mean with shift and control-dragging, though?
In the base editor you can now place the items anywhere you want without having to use the "stacking" trick people have been using. So want a box floating in mid-air? You can with ease!


@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!

 

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Originally Posted by Quinch View Post
Again, that's content {which is, again, a Good Thing}. But it doesn't improve the framework of the game.
?
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Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
Stalker and Gravity changes, an expanded LFG queue... a Settings button at login
Some of what I named is content, some isn't. Since Freedom we've also gotten:
-Updated character creator/costume editor
-Revamped travel pools
-Tailor functions added to trainers
-A new server
-New base editing functionality
Things ARE being changed and improved. If you want to push for the stuff on your wishlist, great, do so. Currently you're coming across a little passive-aggressive "why aren't you doing anything with all this money?" when they already are.


 

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Originally Posted by Quinch View Post
Is any of that money going to go into non-cosmetic improvements?
Sure!
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Things like an improved search interface,
1000 PP

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Praetorian flashbacks or upgrade of existing flashback system
800 PP

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maybe, maybe some base lovin'?
Personal Bases 2000 PP
Base Equipment Upgrade Pack 1 800 PP
Base Equipment Upgrade Pack 2 800 PP
Base Equipment Upgrade Pack 3 800 PP
Revamped Base Raids 1000 PP

It's a Brave New World!


Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster


"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."

 

Posted

Praetorian arcs need added into Ouroborous. Even if you were a Praetorian you can't go back through Ouro to re-do them, bleh. I suppose they could just say that the Menders can't go back in time in an alternate dimension so they can't meddle in Praetorian history?

But the thing that they still have never added are the Mayhems and Safeguards. It's not as much of an issue blueside besides for badgers, but a redside accolade is tied into the exploration badge in those Mayhem missions--you can see people paying millions of infamy for certain mayhems they're missing, and even so sometimes it isn't quick due to extremely anemic redside population--and the lowbies were usually too busy getting PL'd in AE to bother with mayhems. It's a hassle to make a f2p account just to PL it and send it to go get the mayhems your main needs.


 

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Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
Praetorian arcs need added into Ouroborous. Even if you were a Praetorian you can't go back through Ouro to re-do them, bleh. I suppose they could just say that the Menders can't go back in time in an alternate dimension so they can't meddle in Praetorian history?
I think it's more that Ouroboros is apparently kind of hacked together to begin with and the idea of integrating Praetorian stuff into it will make some poor dev reach for the Pepto-Bismol.


@Mindshadow

 

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If Paragon Studios was smart they would take whatever extra money CoH:Freedom has generated for them and apply that directly towards the development of a brand new sequel superhero MMO.

The current game is still fun and probably has a few more years of life left to it. But its long term future will require, at least at some point, a huge overhaul to keep it modern and relevant. The easiest way to do that will eventually be a brand new game that builds on the firm foundation of the current game.


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Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
If Paragon Studios was smart they would take whatever extra money CoH:Freedom has generated for them and apply that directly towards the development of a brand new sequel superhero MMO.

The current game is still fun and probably has a few more years of life left to it. But its long term future will require, at least at some point, a huge overhaul to keep it modern and relevant. The easiest way to do that will eventually be a brand new game that builds on the firm foundation of the current game.
As much as this will cause debate, discussion, arguments, and probably headache inducing situations, this IS what needs to happen at some point but there are 2 ways it can happen.

First approach: They will call it an "upgrade" and they will literally rebuild the entire game from the ground up to include better graphics, better collisions, better 3D spacial notation, better power management, probably better costume options, I mean in short they will be building a new game and just call it an "upgrade" that we would get like we've gotten all the upgrades, as a New Issue. Be issue "35- Resurrection" or something.

Downside of this approach: This level of re-build being done in-house would require massive amounts of resources, far and wide more then any single issue has ever taken. And those resources would include time and man power. Chances are we would go through a phase where instead of getting 3-issues a year, we would get 2 and then 1 a year. We might even hit a point where We don't get any updates for the year. I fear this would cost them customer bases as it would appear that they are not supporting the game any longer.

Second approach: They sub-contract the work out to a production house (Please dear god in heaven and Lucifer who is hell do not hire Cryptic studios!!!!) and task them with building "CoH 2". While that production company is building the new game, Paragon Studios would be releasing the 3 issues a year in updates.

The downside to this approach: Money. Paragon Studios would have to put up a sizable down payment on the contract upfront to get the production house to sign on. That money has to come from somewhere. And it'll most likely come from the subscription funds of ViPs and earnings of the market. I don't have numbers to equate to, but this could affect the quality of Game updates we get for a period of time. Anyone remember I15-Anniversary? We got 1 new Task Force, 1 new Strike Force, a dozen faces for the costume editor, and a hand full of Costume change emotes and that was about it. That could be the quality level of Issues we would get during the development cycle for CoH2.

All in all, I think the second approach would be a better approach provided the Devs tell us that is what they are doing. None of this "Big things are coming" bull that they seem to like dangling in front of our noses. They would need to tell us point blank "We ARE developing CoH 2. Because resources are going to be focused on that, the quality of the issues for the next year(s) will be limited to story and minor cosmetic updates."

Of course the real clincher will be how the devs handle the account transfers. I for one am not interested in getting a CoH2 account in addition to my CoH account so I would like them to provide me the ability to simply migrate into a CoH2 account and provide me the option to port my toons over to the new system.




 

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Originally Posted by Quinch View Post
Is any of that money going to go into non-cosmetic improvements?
....several new powersets, a zone revamp in the works offering viable Incarnate soloing, and a slew of balancing.... All these are "cosmetic"?

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Originally Posted by Quinch View Post
Again, that's content {which is, again, a Good Thing}. But it doesn't improve the framework of the game.
You didn't say anything about "framework of the game" ( which is in itself a pretty subjective thing. Some players would consider powersets and zone revamps "framework" and others might consider them "fluff" ) in your initial question. You just said non-cosmetic improvements.




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Avatar art by Daggerpoint

 

Posted

Hm. I'm new here. I haven't really explored the game in-depth and so the need for a sequel doesn't seem at all compelling to me. But thinking logically, I think the devs really do need to start seriously considering when and not if CoH 2 needs to start pre-production. And whenever that is, it should be soon.

The game is already a hodge-podge of kludges and quick fixes, because the infrastructure of the game can't support more elegant solutions. Ouroboros, Null the Gull, etc. etc. There are significant problems with the way villain content is implemented on a fundamental level, and while better writing could go a long way towards fixing this, a total reboot would give an opportunity to build a more proactive villain game from the ground up, or at least leave room for it at a later date. There are a lot of advantages to going into CoH 2. Maybe see if you can get some guys from ANet to help out one of their fellow vassals, those guys are awesome at what they do.

Regardless, definitely make VIP access shared between both games, as you don't want to be competing with yourself, and also try to make a lot of store items cross-game too. For example, I've got a few costume part unlocks on my CoX account right now, a hypothetical CoH 2 should have similar costume parts which are automatically unlocked if the linked CoX account has the equivalent store item already. If you have CoX trenchcoats, you have CoH 2 trenchcoats.

That being said, I actually think the rate and technical quality of the content being produced right now is fine for the immediate future. The only things that irk me right now are occasional writing gaffes and an emphasis on group content. I want MMOs to provide the option of grouping together so I can do multiplayer when my friends are online, not require grouping so that I can't really play at all when they're not.


 

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Don't let Cryptic anywhere NEAR CoH2. Their game philosophy is apparently to release a buggy & incomplete product, try to trick people into paying a lot of money up-front on a Lifetime subscription scheme and abandon all support for that MMO in order to work on a new cheap, bad MMO. CoH succeeded in spite of Jack's attempts to kill it on a few occasions (taking a year or so off of releasing a content patch after CoV launched because he reassigned everybody to work on Champions Online?)

More likely scenario is Paragon Studios vets begin work on CoH2 and NCSoft uses CoH1 as a sort of training ground for their korean devs. I think that's already begun judging from how revamped Dark Astoria looks like it's the Plane of Fear or something and the how the revamped Circle of Thorns looks.


 

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Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
I think that's already begun judging from how revamped Dark Astoria looks like it's the Plane of Fear or something and the how the revamped Circle of Thorns looks.
Awesome and awesome? If that's the results we get from Korean devs in training, a lotta Western companies would do well to hire 'em now.




Virtue Server
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
If Paragon Studios was smart they would take whatever extra money CoH:Freedom has generated for them and apply that directly towards the development of a brand new sequel superhero MMO.

The current game is still fun and probably has a few more years of life left to it. But its long term future will require, at least at some point, a huge overhaul to keep it modern and relevant. The easiest way to do that will eventually be a brand new game that builds on the firm foundation of the current game.
I'm in full agreement here...


Quite a few of us "thought" Issue 20 was the big "upgrade" (or were hoping at least) because of the actual signed NDA, etc...alas, not so much

I wouldn't be surprised if they're thinking/doing the pre-production stages of CoH2.


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Originally Posted by Mental_Giant View Post
Who started with the name-calling? And you haven't said anything to refute my point yet. Regardless of whether or not we actually have to pay for Base features a la carte, the fact remains that we have to pay for a lot of things we used to get for free.
Like?

-Costume sets? ...wait, no, we had to pay for a lot of those before.
-Travel powers? ...err, no, same.
-Nifty emotes? ....nope, see above.
-Power sets? ...several free with VIP subscriptions, oh, and there were several powers that only came with expansion purchase before ( GR came with several. Then there were whole ATs that were only available with a CoV purchase before CoH and CoV were merged )
-Zone revamps? ....nope, all those are either free with VIP so far or purchased as part of the GR expansion that was broken into parts and put into the Market with Freedom. Now you can pick and choose which GR parts you want... But those who already had GR don't have to pay a dime extra.

Yanno, I'm drawing a blank. Maybe you can enlighten me here....

You made an unsubstantiated "DOOOOM!" claim. I feel I went easy on you with my response. Your "realism" had no basis in reality. Which makes it obvious that word doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

Edit: And as for the maturity comment... Well, the "fixed" nonsense is playground pettiness, nothing more.




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Originally Posted by Redlynne View Post
There are some Unlockable Contacts over on Redside that you can't "get to" through the Flashback system, because completing the arc of the pre-req Contact(s) doesn't get you an "introduction" to the Unlock Contact. The Radio in Port Oakes is the most obvious example of this (but by no means the only one).

Another example of expanded Flashback functionality would be enabling the ability to go back and run Newspaper/Police Scanner missions in particular level ranges so as to get the corresponding Bank/Mayhem missions via Flashback.
Ok I doubled check this, what are you referring to? You can flash back the Radio in Port Oakes. I see his arcs appearing.


 

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Originally Posted by Tyger42 View Post
-Costume sets? ...wait, no, we had to pay for a lot of those before.
Much cheaper as boosters, and they are more frequent.
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-Travel powers? ...err, no, same.
More expensive and more frequent.
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-Power sets? ...several free with VIP subscriptions, oh, and there were several powers that only came with expansion purchase before ( GR came with several. Then there were whole ATs that were only available with a CoV purchase before CoH and CoV were merged )
Aside from the two expansions, we never had to pay for power sets. Now?
We've had three $10 power sets and one free one since Freedom launched. More expensive, and, so far, more frequent. Dark Control will be free, but I'll be happily shocked if Staff Melee is.

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Yanno, I'm drawing a blank. Maybe you can enlighten me here....
You're missing the point. Just because we sometimes had to pay for things, it's now constant. On average, more money is coming out of my pocket to have a little more content. Obviously this is why Freedom is financially successful: they get more money from VIPs, and you get money from Premium/Freems when you got nothing from them before.

The irony of this whole discussion is I'm considered one of the leading fanbois on Victory.


Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster


"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."

 

Posted

I would hope that, if they are doing well, that they would be putting some of their money into the hardware. You know, updating the actual technology behind the game.

I'm hoping they're improving the servers they use, the cables connecting things, faster processors, all of the things that even make the game possible. That way, the game will be running at its best no matter what content they bring out for us.


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Originally Posted by Mental_Giant View Post
more frequent.
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more frequent.
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more frequent
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You're missing the point.
No, you are


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Mental_Giant View Post
Who started with the name-calling? And you haven't said anything to refute my point yet. Regardless of whether or not we actually have to pay for Base features a la carte, the fact remains that we have to pay for a lot of things we used to get for free.
On the other hand, we're also getting a lot of the things we used to get for free ... still free (well for VIPs).

New Zones Free? - First Ward
Revamped Zones Free? - Dark Astoria and Atlas Park
New Story Arcs Free? - The SSAs, DA, AP FW story arcs, mid-level arcs in I22
New Powersets Free? - Darkness Control, Time Manipulation, Darkness Manipulation, Darkness Assault
Proliferated Power Sets Free? - It'd be a longish list, but yea it happened in I21 and then the Dark Miasma version in I22.
Costume Sets Free? - IDF and Defense sets in I21 and Olympian Guard in I22
New (non end-game) Trials/SFs Free? - Death from Below, Drowning In Blood

Costume sets and power sets have never been an 'every issue' addition to the game but we've had them included for the past two issues. The odd little non-pool travel powers were always tied to either the purchase of some game box or a costume pack.

It seems to me that in general we're getting more free to go along with the more purchasable things. Personally I'm ok with that really, but I can understand how other people might not be. I just wish I didn't see people go overboard about how we'll obviously have to pay for everything when it's fairly obvious that the VIPs are still getting a lot included in their subscription. Honestly I'd say we're getting more than we used to for our subscription fee.


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