It happened AGAIN.

/seconded

and if you and the others that ******* me out bothered to read my whole post you'd see I gave a solution to go with the arguments I made. I was well aware I was making arguments that had been made before.

I agree for a story line while the heroes are off trying to save the world that the villains should have a story line that allows them to take advantage of the confusion/ chaos, but that works really only for the parts of the story that don't take place in a co-op TF/ Trial for the trial its self to complete it you have to defeat a common foe or reach a common goal (hence co-op).

My going through every thing I said (even knowing it was said), was me stating an opinion (and some facts) to lead in to a solution... See rather then just complain I also try to come up with solutions.

here are some new ones (as well the first one that seems to have been glossed over):
1) end the Co-op TF in a PvP battle (the side of the last one standing gets a bigger bonus and story reward)
2) Don't end the story arc in the Co-op: okay the heroes and Villians worked together sent the butt wipe running now the heroes are chasing after them in another TF while the villains go cause chaos

The thing is for a TF (not the story leading up to it persay or story after it) to be co-op Blue and red both sides must have a common cause at least for the immediate moment even if the end game is different, I do see the point that its ALWAYS the Villains are being forced to help save the world from group or guy X.

So, that bring up a 3rd and 4th idea (and no I did not read every post here, i got 2 pages in and saw it was the same back and forth including arguments I have previously made):

3) maybe a story arc where the Villains trick the heroes in to helping them with the end result that they take down another Hero unwittingly or the fight being a ruse to leave the heroes weakened/ tired or distract them so the Villains can cause a problem else where

4) aside from the end goal (stop guy X or shut down this lab or w/e) maybe give heroes and Villains separate mini goals with in the TF/ trial like while the Heroes are trying to destroy crates of ammo and bombs the villains steal intel and chemicals for there own purposes.

I apologize if I came off sounding like I was just shoving a moot point down your throat, that wasn't my intent my intent was to try and find a solution, I don't play villains much my self cause they don't feel evil enough, I mean a lot of the regular missions are fighting other villains and villain groups and not nearly enough sticking it to the heroes and innocents (like why the hell can't you beat up the protesters out side the arachnos fort?). So, I get it. Again sorry if I came off preachy not the intent.

2 last notes:

1) yes I know I restated things said before or things that are obvious, I didn't do it to "beat a dead horse" (as fun as that is) I did it so what I said after that hopefully had some cohesion.

2) I find it some what humorous that people got on my case for repeating the same thing others had said yet several of you did just that in the space of one page :P

/me waits quietly to be attacked

Both of these will require new mission systems, as there is no current system to end an arc in pvp and no current system to split a task force.

Just writing task forces with a slightly different focus (i.e. common enemy, rather than the end of the world) doesn't require new mission systems.

I do not envy the developer that will have to balance the final pvp mission as well, so that one hero stands a chance to seven villains (or vice versa), and I do not envy the community manager who has to defend "forcing pvp" onto players that stay as far away from pvp as possible.

Option 2 is then slightly more realistic than option 1, but I can't see either of them happening.

After 18 pages of refuting "but if you destroy the world, you will die as well, so it can't happen", what did you expect?

QFT.

By the way guys, stay on topic. May be too late to say that though. Nalrok isn't asking to destroy the world or do anything game changing. He's talking about how even regular villain content is bland. We need more Dean Arthur styled arcs. Have someone ELSE be OUR lackey. We order HIM to get us access to secret codes to Longbow bases or other highly secured areas. That's sort of an example of what Nalrok is talking about.

On the co-op matter, he's tired of villains suddenly turning their A-hole meter down to zero and going out of their way to fight with the heroes. Yeah yeah, cosmic horrors, Battalion, Praetorians, etc. It'd be nice to sort of have multiple replies to choose from for new story arcs, too. Especially if it's a co-op zone. The new intro story for Rogue Isles does this real well with the Longbow guy you torture for information. First Ward did it pretty straight. Haven't done much of Dark Astoria to avoid SPOILARZ.

Of course this post will just be overshadowed in the argument of "herp derp pvp"

I just did that story about a week ago. The options were roughly:

-*Break his arm*
-*Break his leg*
-"I'mma hurt you rawr"

I wasn't really compelled. A lot of the other multi-dialogue choices were much better.

We most emphatically do not.

Not with another Dean, no. But we need more "the contact is your lackey" arcs.

Instead of waiting for the game company isn't this something that would make for a good bragging rights contest between players?

Players create AE arcs that fit your criteria.

You and maybe someone else plays and judges the AE content. T

The best story arcs get evil bragging rights on the forums

I do see your point but option 2 would not require new code writing as any thing after the common goal was complete would happen after the co op TF so it would just mean NOT ending a story arc with the Co-Op TF so Scenario would be like this...

TF ends with Mutal enemy defeated Return to contact heroes get a new hero contact Villians get a new Villain one .

Hero contact: You have Have Kept Agent X from carrying out his plan to blow up all the Brothels on Rogue Isles and Paragon, but he got away YOU MUST GO AFTER HIM!

Slimy weasil villain informant: Hey The heroes are distracted chasing After Agent X now is the perfect time to take advantage you can:
- Go on a looting spree
- Assassinate the mayor
-Go to a brothel and pick out your favorite girl while the heroes chase after him

then you do like 2-3 more missions and the last mission (depending on your choice) is rockin Villians only SF or multiplayer Destruction mission

Thus kind of doing at the very least a better job of showing "hey you where a hero for only a moment" :P

I will never claim all my ideas are good ones, but at least I am thinking...sorta...

A small buff similar to The Flames of Prometheus could be given.

In the interest of fairness, Science/Technology/Mutation Hero characters could do something identical with a different story idea:

This would allow an even playing field, and an opportunity for both heroes and villains to get the small temp buff.

All of this is a hypothetical, of course, but it would really add flavor to BOTH sides of the game. Everyone wins.

It wouldn't have to be balanced.
The hero who goes on a TF with 7 villains should be expecting to come out of it with a few betrayal bruises, equally for the villain who chooses to betray 7 heroes.

And it would hardly be forcing PvP, if you don't like that part, then just leave the mission early, or stand by and let yourself be defeated. It's not like you'd lose anything for losing, you'd still get the reward for the TF, just not for winning the PvP battle.
Yeah, some people would still complain, but they'll always be someone who complains about anything new that's added.

More decidedly heroic / villainous content? I like it. Consider me signed to your newsletter.

Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader

Entropy Legion * Hyperion Force * Hero Heights

I don't think this really puts a dent in the problem, in the sense that I think it only seems interesting because its not done at all, but once it is done the fundamental complaint would still exist, but on the other hand I wouldn't be opposed to adding more elements like this to co-op missions either. It does, as you say, add some flavor to the gameplay.

If you want to take the concept farther, consider this. Every Lambda I've ever been on has had some players leave immediately and others stay behind after Marauder is defeated to clean up the courtyard. The clean up part doesn't require the entire league, obviously: mostly individual players can decide for themselves whether to stick around for a little while longer or not.

You could add very small side tasks at the end of co-op trials where the heroes and the villains go their separate ways and complete an optional goal which sets them back on the heroic or villainous path again, and sets them onto the story paths you describe above. So perhaps at the end of Keyes, you could actually allow the villains to break into a bunker and steal something, and conversely have the heroes go back to a reactor and collect samples.

The only problematic aspect of doing that which I can see is that on many servers leagues run trials back to back, and having it be entirely optional for individual players to extend the trial by more than a couple minutes would be disruptive. But this would have the alternate side benefit of providing a way for players to get a wind up of just what the heck happened during the trial, which many players tend not to get. This might be more practical in co-op task forces than iTrials, though, due to the back to back problem. For iTrials, *unlocking* a mission which the player can do any time to wrap up the trial might also work.

I would have liked to be able to keep the cloning facility in the arc with Leonard in Sharkshead. I think being able to produce a small army of clones to do my bidding and sending them out into the world counts as evil. It'd be another way to explain what happens when your character dies in a mission to because it wouldn't be them, it'd be their clone.

That could lead to problems for future stories

Wait, so what do you want, let Darrin Wade succeed in conquering the planet and enslaving everyone, including character? Do you believe your lowly ole villain is going to escape the wrath of Wade or his Rularuu, do you? If so, you are solely mistaken. Even Wade will find himself a servant of these humanity-hating freaks.

A WISE villain knows when it is time to set aside his plans for whatever and fight along side those he battled for years. However, according to you, that should not be the case here. Okay, what do you want? Do you want your evil genius to destroy Wade, take over, and rule the Rularuu? What do you think Ruladak the Strong or Rularuu the Ravager will have to say about the matter?

So, what can you do if you don't want to "help" defeat Wade and his masters, the Rularuu. You going to sit on the sidelines and let the rest of the Heroes and Villains that join them fight the battle for you. While they are doing that, you going to rob everyone blind, get all the goodies you can? That is not the actions of a super villain. It is the actions of a thug and a coward.

Face it; this is a super hero/villain universe and game. From time to time, heroes & villains, for whatever reason, must join forces to keep their way of life alive and protected. This is the fact of this genre. You could just opt out of not participating in the final SSA and not worry about suffering through "being corn holed into 'the greater good' AGAIN." Then there would be no issue, you can ignore the results and motor on. You do not have to participate if you are tired of doing it because "it's the right thing to do."

Wow, another person who posts without reading the thread. Amazing.

And? Problem? Can I not comment on the original posted message? Must I be a Lemming and only comment on the new stuff to avoid being insulted for reading and commenting on something I that did not have a chance to before? <Steve Martin's voice>Well, excuse me</voice>

None at all.

Except that your argument has been brought up about once per page by other people that only commented the original post without reading the thread. And argued against each time.

Usually the argument against your argument is that the thread is NOT about that it's out of character for my villainous character to save the world, but that it IS boring for me as a player of villainous characters to have coops TFs and trials that are actually heroic trials with the "allow bad guys too" switch in the ON position.

That argument is usually followed by a good examination of the rest of the villainous content, concluding that quite a lot of City of Villains rather is City of Misunderstood Mercenaries; and a request for a coop TF where the heroes have to do villainous deeds for the greater good, or just "common enemy" themes without the "save the world" gimmick.

Sometimes there's a deviation to the possibility that my character actually is an incarnation of the end of the world, and hence that she would rather participate on the other side to help destroy it, or simply stand aside and have you heroes fail.

But apart from that, no problem at all.

Shame we only get an AE update once in a blue moon.

Maybe I don't. Maybe it's been my villains dream/mission from the beginning to do exactly what Wade is doing? Maybe my character was a servant of Rularuu from the beginning before these Rulu-shin cultists popped up on the radar.

I think the point is that a definitive answer of NO has already been given to the first question you ask in your post.

Which you would know if you read the thread.