Quote:
Actually "always in rubble" |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Always in motion the future is
 |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
I can't see how would someone design a MMO where each and every player can destroy and/or rule the entire world. You'd have to shut the servers off after the first player completes the arc, wouldn't you? Or perhaps the crazy scheme would fail and the player character would be instantly deleted. I can't see either of these outcomes viable for a massively multiplayer game.
It's already tough to swallow stuff like Statesman getting killed in SSA #5 and still hanging out in IP, or defeating Vahzilok and still seeing his minions roaming around, or any of the several discrepancies as the story evolves while you level up but the streets stay the same. I mean, I'm not against letting villains win, I just think it's easier said than done.
Quote:
...And then what? Game over. Literally, there's nothing left to do because everything is destroyed.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
If Supervillain A was going to push the red button to destroy the world, at least 4 of my characters would knock him aside and push the button themselves, laughing until the lights went out.
|
When evil prevails, society and its constant flow ceases. There is no more forward motion, because you can only enslave, conquer, and destroy so much before there is nothing left!
I cannot stress enough that I agree with you. Villains get the shaft WAY too often. I am glad there are at least things like the LRSF where you can demolish the do-gooders. But in order for the game to progress, evil cannot win in the CoH-universe-wide event because it would result in a negative progression rate, eventually ending at nothing.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
Quote:
You've not seen enough of it then |
Originally Posted by Dante
And from what I've seen of it so far, New Dark Astoria is going to be exactly the same.
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
That it's perfeable that villains ultimately have NO choice in what they do? Sure I can "see" that side of the discussion, but that side simply tells my villains that they should just shut up and enjoy being undercover "heroes in disguise" every... single... time a moral turning point arises in the game.|
Originally Posted by Silentkilla866
I agree with this. I can also see it from the other side of the discussion too.
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Like I said before it'll be fun once somebody makes a game where I can -actually- be a super-villain sometime. *shrugs*
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Quote:
It can't really be done in a multiplayer environment - but because world ending threats are normal in a comicbook environment, that means that they'll always be something that all the players need to fight - the Battalion won't be a joinable faction |
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I can't see how would someone design a MMO where each and every player can destroy and/or rule the entire world.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
People who want to turn "everyone's lights" out usually don't care what other people want. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That'd be fine if you were only turning your own lights out - it's not so easy when thousands of other players want the lights left on.
|
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Quote:
That's fine if the other people are just NPCs - but not so fine if the other people are actually other people |
Originally Posted by Lothic
People who want to turn "everyone's lights" out usually don't care what other people want.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
Sometimes, people who try to be the most important become the least important because of it.
|
Originally Posted by Lothic
People who want to turn "everyone's lights" out usually don't care what other people want.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
I will chime in that I am a bit tired of the Co-op stuff and I do believe that after almost 6 years that redside needs more attention. A new -pure- villain zone. More villainous arcs.
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I agree but to be fair I did get to kill Alexis in the SSA. But Wade killing Statesman so I can't and then trying to get rid of me? I am specially crafting a bodybag with his name on it.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
I will chime in that I am a bit tired of the Co-op stuff and I do believe that after almost 6 years that redside needs more attention. A new -pure- villain zone. More villainous arcs.
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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I'm not arguing whether or not CoH is a static MMO based super-hero game. I'm simply highlighting the laughable notion that any player could actaully play a real villain in this game to its logical conclusion. I find that not being able to play a villain here as freely as I can play a hero somewhat sad in the greater scheme of things. *shrugs*
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That's fine if the other people are just NPCs - but not so fine if the other people are actually other people
|
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Maybe the villains will try and take Wade's power for themselves.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
Quote:
Not quite sure what this has to do with being able to make villainous moral choices while playing a villain in a game, but it sounds cool none the less. |
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Sometimes, people who try to be the most important become the least important because of it.
|
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Quote:
I just came up with a win - win for Recluse and my villains. What if we toss Wade into the Praetorian dimension?|
Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
Maybe the villains will try and take Wade's power for themselves.
|
Either that Cole will kill him or he will take over that dimension. Neither is a problem from where my villains sit.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
For the villains who want to help Wade and destroy the universe, you could always just pretend you did and delete your villain. I mean, what else would happen? Then you could pretend that everyone else is in an alternate universe Paragon where sanity won out. You might complain that no one mentions your villain's ridiculous sacrifice, but there's no one left who could!
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Only argument against that, as hilariously awesome as it sounds, is Cole would somehow get the power to himself. Or to make matters worse, the Hamidon.
|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I just came up with a win - win for Recluse and my villains. What if we toss Wade into the Praetorian dimension?
Either that Cole will kill him or he will take over that dimension. Neither is a problem from where my villains sit. |
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
Quote:
One more time I simply wish I could play a game where I didn't have to "pretend" to be an insanely suicidal villain because the game itself prevented me from roleplaying a villain the way I might want to.|
Originally Posted by Mosquito
For the villains who want to help Wade and destroy the universe, you could always just pretend you did and delete your villain. I mean, what else would happen? Then you could pretend that everyone else is in an alternate universe Paragon where sanity won out. You might complain that no one mentions your villain's ridiculous sacrifice, but there's no one left who could!
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I don't really consider this to be a specific flaw of CoH - until someone can figure out a suitable way to create a MMO that did not have to remain static then the continuing idea of being able to play a "real" super-villain will always be basically impossible.
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2 things:
- Let's reserve judgement and wait and see how the story plays out. As I said after we announced States was shuffling off to the great hereafter, there's still 2 more chapters to go, and anything can (and probably will) happen.
- When writing these stories, we have to make them personal, and yet still all encompassing as they have a definite impact on the game world. In talking to Dr. Aeon, I know for a fact that he does everything in his power to convey a truly villainous experience, but please understand that we cannot take each and every character, origin or backstory into account. Don't get me wrong, we would *love* to give you all the opportunity to take over or destroy the world, but unfortunately that particular story telling mechanism is a bit difficult to convey outside of a medium like console games.
In a world (tell me you didn't just hear Don LaFontaine's voice)...where other people would be affected by it, how would we get to chose who actually presses the button? I mean, aside from the obvious...
The obvious is I push the button.
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
Quote:
Ok, I don't mean this in a sarcastic/ condescending way or anything...|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
If Supervillain A was going to push the red button to destroy the world, at least 4 of my characters would knock him aside and push the button themselves, laughing until the lights went out.
|
We now have tech in place that lets each character see the world "their way", in that you may or may not kill/ rescue a certain character, who would then appear or disappear based on your decision. They could potentially use that to a degree.
Running with what you said abouve, though, how would you feel about this: you face off against Wade, not for TGG, but for your own reasons, knowing that this could "Destroy the World!" You beat him down, even torture and kill him As a consequence, the "world ends". The screen goes black and your character's version of the game world comes to an end. Your character is auto-deleted, because he is now dead.
I personally don't think that would be terribly satisfying (beyond a one-time "oh, sh**, they let me do it!"), but it almost sounds like that would be ok with you. If that is not good, then what do you think would work? I am honestly just curious.
Ok, Egos_Shadow had the same thought before me, but I will leave this here, anyway, because I am still curious. I think this might be a viable option for some players/ characters.
Est sularis oth Mithas
Quote:
On the orders of Nemesis |
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Don LaFontaine's voice)...where other people would be affected by it, how would we get to chose who actually presses the button? I mean, aside from the obvious...
The obvious is I push the button. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
I was hoping with each of us having our own unique instances whether we're solo or the leader of a party would help with that sort of thing.
|
Originally Posted by Lothic
One more time I simply wish I could play a game where I didn't have to "pretend" to be an insanely suicidal villain because the game itself prevented me from roleplaying a villain the way I might want to.
I don't really consider this to be a specific flaw of CoH - until someone can figure out a suitable way to create a MMO that did not have to remain static then the continuing idea of being able to play a "real" super-villain will always be basically impossible. |
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
Quote:
That's not what I'm asking at all, though I think you have the gist of it down. What I really want to see is more villainy. Every time our villains are about to take that final step into glory, some storyline-important NPC steps in and does one of the following:|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
please understand that we cannot take each and every character, origin or backstory into account. Don't get me wrong, we would *love* to give you all the opportunity to take over or destroy the world, but unfortunately that particular story telling mechanism is a bit difficult to convey outside of a medium like console games.
|
-Sells you out, making you the fall guy
-Laughs in your face and tells you you've just been doing his errands
-Sits back down and says "and now we wait"
It's not satisfying at all. Heroside, players get the satisfaction of stopping the bad guys and saving the day. Villainside, players get to be lackeys for bigger villains and, afterward, are politely told to go home and wait for the next opportunity.
If we DO get that next opportunity, it's the contact going "ZOMG THERE'S SOMETHING HUGE AND EVIL, MORE EVIL THAN YOU AND I, YOU NEED TO GO TEAM UP WITH THE HEROES OR THE WHOLE UNIVERSE IS GOING TO DIIIIIIE" and we get directed to the nearest co-op zone.
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"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Quote:
If I knew a game would allow for such a possible outcome for a villain I'd probably create a character that I'd be willing to see deleted in such a way. What's one character like that when I could just create others that would not be deletable like that? |
Originally Posted by Arnabas
Running with what you said abouve, though, how would you feel about this: you face off against Wade, not for TGG, but for your own reasons, knowing that this could "Destroy the World!" You beat him down, even torture and kill him As a consequence, the "world ends". The screen goes black and your character's version of the game world comes to an end. Your character is auto-deleted, because he is now dead.
I personally don't think that would be terribly satisfying (beyond a one-time "oh, sh**, they let me do it!"), but it almost sounds like that would be ok with you. If that is not good, then what do you think would work? I am honestly just curious. |
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For example, Silos and the Menders didn't see a future where the Shivans hit Galaxy City instead of Atlas Park
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork