Lucas planning to retire


BrandX

 

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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
I "HIGHLY" recommend that everyone see the new Lucas movie "Red Tails". One of the best movies that you can see this year!
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
Go see Red Tails, you will not regret it!
Saying it once, it may be your honest opinion. Saying it twice smells a lot like astroturfing.


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Originally Posted by Nericus View Post
So here's a question: should Lucas use CGI and stunt doubles to rebuild the saber fights of Ep 4, 5 and 6 to match the prequels, or should he just leave it alone, or.....should he recreate the classics from scratch?
Absolutely not. While the old fights didn't have the best choreography, what made them so great was the emotion that was being conveyed. In the prequels, the fight scenes bordered on sterile and over-choreographed. Not to mention how little depth and emotion the vast majority of the character interactions had. Updating the old fights would probably result in sacrifices that would greatly hurt the movies as a whole.


 

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Originally Posted by Father Xmas View Post
Saying it once, it may be your honest opinion. Saying it twice smells a lot like astroturfing.
I only said it again, because I went to see it again with my nephew. Sorry got kinda excited there..my bad.


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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater View Post
Luke's story in the original trilogy is paced in such a way that his progression from naive kid to the last Jedi seems organic and is satisfying.
The original collection of movies follows the flow and format of a tale of modern mythology. Not only do the events happen exactly as they would in classic mythology stories, but their timing also follows suit. That is, the specific events in the plot are milestones that serve as a revelation of character as the story progresses. Lucas didn't write this story; I'll even be so bold as to say that he soaked up the material for it by picking Joseph Campbell's brain over the years (most heavily taken from his work "The Power of Myth"). When Campbell died, Lucas suddenly found himself without any more material so he was forced to actually write the story for the newer films himself. We all saw how that turned out. It's evident from those films that focus group discussions, opinion polls and pop-publicity are what formed the basis for them. He couldn't tap his resource anymore, so he turned to marketing demographics instead.

Despite my feelings on this, the original films remain unblemished by their "creator's" follies after the fact. These films are not forgettable, in my opinion. You didn't have to see any of the movies back then to know who Darth Vader was. They touched us, as a species, on a primal level precisely because they're right out of mythology. In that context, they're drawn from the stories told since ages past, those that explore the most poignant themes known to the human condition. Revenge, betrayal, hope, fear, forgiveness, redemption, love, freedom, loss, maturity (from young boy to young adult), etc. Not only are themes explored, but some of the archetypes clarified by Carl Jung in his work were as well (which, incidentally, was a student of Freud and influenced Joseph Campbell. Hmmm. Small world.). Those are the stories that teach us about ourselves, and provide us with hope as we make our way through this thing called Life. Evidence of its popularity can be seen in the world-wide response to the original films, in terms of box office sales and fandom all over the world and such. Its impression on us is undeniable and, quite amply, unforgettable.

Episodes 1-3 are not any of that. They're forgettable, and they present some asinine elements for the audience to digest. Such as:

Reducing the Force down to the equivalent of a bacterial or viral infection (or even symbiosis), via Midi-chlorians

Force bugs? That's how you substantiate "an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together?" You couldn't find room for plausibility in faith to cover this? Or in Karmic energy? Or in a galactic equivalent to Trasncendentalisms's Oversoul to cover it (since you're already drawing from concepts in comparative religion and comparative mythology via Joseph Campbell, anyway)? It could have even been left unexplained, with the presence of the Force being more important than the "how" or "why" it's around in the first place. This bit is just pathetic, and it shows how little he cares for the integrity of the story or its potential impact on audiences. As long as he's making a profit, I suppose this isn't an issue for him.

Showing Yoda and Palpatine as characters.

In the original films, these two are not characters. Rather, they each represent phases that Luke was going through at critical points in the story, intended to symbolize the inherent conflict within (between "good" and "evil") and show that consequence cannot be avoided. It also accounts for the persistent presence of temptation, whereby Luke must remain vigilant and use restraint/self-control, lest he become just like Vader ("Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor, or suffer your father's fate you will.")

They even help perpetuate the exploration of things like "Destiny," which you'll notice that Vader, Yoda, Obi-Wan and Palpatine all make reference to along the way. This suggests the possibility of fatalism in a galaxy that is otherwise influenced by the Force ("There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny."). They also serve as powerful, yet subtle, foreshadowing elements in the original films. Looking at each, one gets a very distinct impression of how life in the galaxy could be should Luke choose a particular path or make a rash decision.

For those that cite character development/background as the reason(s) for Palpatine and Yoda being expanded on in the new films, I'd offer:

-If you want to know Palpatine, then look at his work. Look directly at Lord Vader. End of story. That is his work; that is who he is and what he does. He tempts. He corrupts. He destroys. He teaches others to tempt, corrupt and destroy. He's a catalyst for everything the dark side of the Force manifests. There isn't any more to him than this (as portrayed in the original films), and there was no need for there to be. Here again, he's not a character. He's a symbol, and his function is as one part of a balance in Luke's journey.

-If you want to know Yoda, then look at his work(s). Both with Obi-Wan and Luke. End of story. Those are his works; that is who he is. He guides, counsels and cautions against temptation, corruption and lust for power or quick-and-easy solutions. He tempers the inevitable gravitation towards destruction. His function is as one part of a balance in Luke's journey.

Fast forward to the new movies.

By contrast, these two in the new films are lightsaber-wielding acrobats. I'm not even going to dignify this with a response beyond this sentence.

Having both C-3P0 and R2-D2 built by Anakin Skywalker.

So, the two droids who were the Alliance's best hope against the Empire (at the time they escaped Princess Leia's captured vessel and headed down to Tatooine, because they were carrying the Death Star plans) were both built by the same person, whose pursuit of them would lead the Empire to Tatooine? Talk about a small world.

I get that, ultimately, everything in the galaxy is connected but this is a little too convenient and coincidental. Amusingly enough, a student of the Force would probably scoff at the idea, asserting that true coincidences are actually rare. It seems like this was just shoved into the screenplay at the last minute. Even if that's not true, this is one (ableit small) way that Lucas handicapped the story. Even leaving his origins a mystery would have been better than establishing that Anakin built him.

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Originally Posted by Nericus View Post
So here's a question: should Lucas use CGI and stunt doubles to rebuild the saber fights of Ep 4, 5 and 6 to match the prequels, or should he just leave it alone, or.....should he recreate the classics from scratch?
then ...

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Originally Posted by PownUnoobs View Post
Absolutely not. While the old fights didn't have the best choreography, what made them so great was the emotion that was being conveyed. In the prequels, the fight scenes bordered on sterile and over-choreographed. Not to mention how little depth and emotion the vast majority of the character interactions had. Updating the old fights would probably result in sacrifices that would greatly hurt the movies as a whole.
I couldn't agree more. "Sterile" is a perfect descriptor for how the fight scenes and character interactions came off in Ep 1-3. Thank you for saying this.

For the original lightsaber duel scenes, these were used sparingly and when necessary in the Ep 4-6. Their appeal, to me, is as much attributed to their precise inclusion when necessary as it is from the emotion being conveyed in the scenes when they take place. They have their place in the story, but they shouldn't be so saturated that you devote entire segments of the film to portraying them.

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Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
The prequals had better lightsaber duels!
This is an opinion that I won't share. If anything, they show how desperate Lucas was to fill the screen with something to entertain audiences for the price they paid for general admission at the theater.


 

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WOW lots of absolutes there Fade_Spiral, sure you are not a Sith Apprentice?


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

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I won't comment on things like whether or not the light saber duels were more or less "sterile" in the prequels versus the originals. People can (and will) bicker about things like that for years to come.

But like I said in my last post in this thread I wouldn't mind if Lucas simply touched up the special effects of the originals. I don't need to see any new scenes or CGI stunt doubles spliced in like Nericus implied. But they could go back and clean up the appearance of things like the light saber blades with CGI improvements. Some of the pre-CGI animation effects are seriously showing their age at this point. The original trilogy simply needs the subtle "Star Trek Remastering" treatment.


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Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
But like I said in my last post in this thread I wouldn't mind if Lucas simply touched up the special effects of the originals. I don't need to see any new scenes or CGI stunt doubles spliced in like Nericus implied. But they could go back and clean up the appearance of things like the light saber blades with CGI improvements. Some of the pre-CGI animation effects are seriously showing their age at this point. The original trilogy simply needs the subtle "Star Trek Remastering" treatment.
Similar to what he did for Empire Strikes Back then? Since aside from cleaning up some bad effects in places, and adding them in others, had no real alterations made to the movie?


 

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Originally Posted by Fade_Spiral View Post
Episodes 1-3 are not any of that. They're forgettable, and they present some asinine elements for the audience to digest. Such as:

Reducing the Force down to the equivalent of a bacterial or viral infection (or even symbiosis), via Midi-chlorians


Having both C-3P0 and R2-D2 built by Anakin Skywalker.

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Midichlorians = Dragonball Z style of establishing that Anakin was stronger then the other Jedi. Per Obi Wan in Ep 6 "WHen I first met your father he was already a great pilot, but I was amazed at how strongly the Force was with him." Obi-wan was amazed when he ran the blood test and Anakin was a champion pod racer when they met.

Also Midichlorians = stupid plot device. When Qui-Gon speculated that Anakin was essentially conceived by The Force itself, that was more then enough for me to understand that Anakin's power levels had to be the strongest of them all, even Yoda. There was no need to add numbers and DBZ style power levels. (OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!)

Threepio and Artoo: they BOTH should have come from Naboo. Artoo as an astromech droid and Threepio as protocol/interpreter. If they wanted to show off Anakin's innate technical brilliance they had his pod racer already, but if they really wanted to show his technical skills and instinctive use of the Force then he should have been written to have built a semi-functional lightsaber. I say semi functional as he cant obtain certain parts or fine enough focusing jewels from Watoo.

For Episode 2: it would have been better I think if they showed that Sidious was responsible for Shmi being abducted and tortured for so long, as I would think the Sand People would have killed her outright instead of torturing her for no apparent reason. Sidious then uses the dark side to ensure that Anakin receives visions of his mother in trouble. Vader in Ep 5 tortured Han and Leia to bait Luke and this should have been done in ep 2. Also I know it is a tradition of sorts to keep Star Wars rated PG, except for Ep 3, but in Ep 2 they should have showed more of Anakin destroying the village of the Sand People. Per the novelization he was hurling boulders with a mere thought and carving the Sand People up with his saber. Basically the only hut left standing was the one with Shmi in it, the rest of the village was a scorch mark.

Also Lucas missed his opportunities in Ep 2 and 3 to explain the Force Ghosts. Unless he added it to the Blu-ray versions, as I haven't seen those. The ep 3 novelization has Yoda speaking with Qui-Gon and Qui-Gon offering to teach Yoda and Obi-Wan how to become ghosts.

Also in Ep 3: Yoda hopes the Skywalker twins can one day defeat the Sith, precisely what is this hope based on? They could have mentioned the dreaded midichlorians one more time to establish what their power potential was in relation to their father. Also there is the blunder that Padme dies after they are born yet Leia dimly remembers her mother in Ep 6......I'd have to guess that was her adoptive mother and not Padme as that is the only explanation for that goof.

Also I would again like to thank Lucas for using Ep 3 to apologize to us for using Ewoks in Ep 6 by giving us the WOOKIE ARMY of Ep 3


 

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Originally Posted by Veritech View Post
Similar to what he did for Empire Strikes Back then? Since aside from cleaning up some bad effects in places, and adding them in others, had no real alterations made to the movie?
Wasn't Empire the one least touched by Lucas's revision attempts? FX cleanup, better scenes of Cloud City and the Wampa Ice monster are about all I remember still being done, and luckily they reversed the adding of the scream as Luke plunged down the shaft.


 

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I don't mind that there were more "flashy" lightsaber duels in the prequels. The sparring use of them in the originals did add weight to them, and they should because there weren't any more Jedi and the two left were either protagonist antagonist, or father and son after it was revealed.

Also, with Luke being essentially self-taught on the use of the Lighsaber I could understand how his moves were more simplistic, yet functional.

Having more Jedi, classically trained, as in the prequels, allows room (to me) for more flashy light saber battles. The weight that was missing behind some of the show downs comes from the fact that throughout the entire prequel series, we were never given a proper protagonist or antagonist, nor were we given a clear plot that made any sense what-so-ever.

The entire idea of the Trade Federation blockading a planet because the hologram guy sent them there made zero sense. Why would they block trade when they're the trade federation?

Already have the senate falling apart at the seems with disfunction and disuptes creating an inability to manage the vastness of the republic. This could be explained in the scrolling text at the start.

The very beginning should've had General Greivous tired of following the orders of Jedi in keeping the peace, take control of a droid army and blockade naboo (and key resource magcuffin) to basically force the trade federation to fund him so he could amass a larger droid army and cull or conquer other dissatisfied worlds to his side.

Introduce C3PO has a trade federation droid on the captured ship that is sent to the Jedi sent to talk with Greivous, he remains as a tag along as comic relief.

Artoo remains as a naboo astromech droid.

Anakin should be one of the naboo pilots-in-training (make him a bit older as in teens) freed in the escape. Sent there to train by his mother who is on tattoine.

Either get rid of the gungans altogether, keep them in as a beginning bit but leave jar-jar behind, or make it that the gungans are upset with the naboo-ians because the precious resource macguffin is something the gungans use but feel is being stolen from them.

Get rid of Dookoo altogether, keep Greivous as our main antangonist, with Darth Maul being the one to convince Greivious to go this route making seem like he's pulling the strings from behind the scenes. Have Darth Maul in place of Dookoo throughout the rest of the films. Only reveal that he is in communication with someone else (being Palpatine).

Drop the midichlorians there's no need to explain the force any deeper than what was already known. Drop the entire balance of the force prophecy crap that made no sense.

After the escape from naboo, and the ship needing repair, Anakin knowing his mother is on naboo, heads there. Only to find out what his mother did to get him to naboo was put herself into slavery for the Hutts. He agrees to race to get the parts necessary for their ship. I'd make the pod race much more dangerous with the corse rigged with traps, and the racers doing more than bumping each other around.

Anakin's mother is freed but remains behind because she's met a man. Leave it all at that.

Now you've a much better set up with the rest of the films with Obi was your protangonist for the first film, giving us Akankin for the second, and Greivous with Maul as the antagonists.


 

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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
WOW lots of absolutes there Fade_Spiral, sure you are not a Sith Apprentice?
Admittedly, this is a very charged topic for me. Even after posting what I did, it became clear that I've been begrudging George Lucas on this for too long.

"Good. I can feel your anger ... "


 

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He could at lease make episode 7,8, 9 of Star Wars first before Retiring .


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Originally Posted by GreenFIame View Post
He could at lease make episode 7,8, 9 of Star Wars first before Retiring .
Good god no.

Let direction and writing go to people with actual talent.



 

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I seriously doubt that'll ever happen. For one, I honestly believe that Lucas has too large of an ego to follow the Thrawn trilogy. And if he went in a completely different direction from those books, he'd have to make those films absolutely amazing or he'd have his fans even more angry at him than they already are.

Instead what he have is more Clone Wars stuff, which is just about okay. It's not great, but I find it more palatable than the prequels. Even though much of it carries on with stuff that I found horrible in the prequels, and it even managed to add more to it. Those parts I just kind of choke down and hope it doesn't rise back up.

Also, Star Wars Underworld, a live action series set between ep. 3 and 4 has been worked on. Well, suppossedly, 50 episode scripts have been written, with the fine details for the first 20 episodes done. But they can't film because it'll cost too much for live t.v. which is how the series is being designed.

Either it'll never see the light of day, get dramatically changed to fit into a series of films, or new tech comes out that'll drive the cost to produce down to the point a network will pick it up, or Lucas Films goes it alone and does it all, hoping to get picked up by a network with deals done to make a profit.


 

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Originally Posted by Tannim222 View Post
I seriously doubt that'll ever happen. For one, I honestly believe that Lucas has too large of an ego to follow the Thrawn trilogy.
Fan fiction is more likely to be featured in fan films rather than in genuine Star Wars movies.


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Originally Posted by GreenFIame View Post
He could at lease make episode 7,8, 9 of Star Wars first before Retiring .
They don't exist - they were condensed into RotJ.


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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Fan fiction is more likely to be featured in fan films rather than in genuine Star Wars movies.
'fan fiction' that was written better than the 'genuine' prequels.


 

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Originally Posted by Veritech View Post
'fan fiction' that was written better than the 'genuine' prequels.
This.

Lucas should have worked more with the fan base, in my opinion. Looking at some of said fan fiction, the enrichment possibilities in this particular galaxy (far, far away) really start to shine.


 

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Originally Posted by Fade_Spiral View Post
Admittedly, this is a very charged topic for me. Even after posting what I did, it became clear that I've been begrudging George Lucas on this for too long.

"Good. I can feel your anger ... "
Dude created a great universe to tell stories in and I understand the frustration expressed towards the movies when the fan fiction and video games like SWTOR were just so very excellent.

I wish that some of these talented writers would write their own new universe. SW came out when I was still in High School and I will be 50 this year. Its about time for something else.


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
Its about time for something else.
Never! More Clone Wars! We must see the anguish of Anakin Skywalker's really bad hangnail, and how it further alienates him from Obi-wan and the Jedi Counsil!


Goodbye, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Fan fiction is more likely to be featured in fan films rather than in genuine Star Wars movies.
Call the EU novels fan fiction if you want, but they all get approved by Lucas and the Thrawn trilogy is still among the best.


 

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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
Dude created a great universe to tell stories in and I understand the frustration expressed towards the movies when the fan fiction and video games like SWTOR were just so very excellent.

I wish that some of these talented writers would write their own new universe. SW came out when I was still in High School and I will be 50 this year. Its about time for something else.
Seconded. Much as I enjoyed it back in the day, I'm just tired of it now, same with Star Trek. Rather than see the same stories get repeated by a new generation (how many times will we see Batman fight the Joker for "the first time"?*), create some new stuff dammit!

Course, studios hate taking the risk with stuff that doesn't already have name recognition...

*Answer: as long as people will keep paying for it, duh!


 

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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
I wish that some of these talented writers would write their own new universe. SW came out when I was still in High School and I will be 50 this year. Its about time for something else.
I don't see why. almost all of these talented writers do have their own sandboxes to play in, but jump at the chance to write a SW novel, for the chance to add something to a universe theyve been a fan of since the first time they saw that text scrawl up the screen. Its like getting the shot to write a favorite comic book character, who wouldn't want a shot at adding something to the mythos of something you grew up on?


 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Fan fiction is more likely to be featured in fan films rather than in genuine Star Wars movies.
Timothy Zahn already got his nod of approval in a genuine Star Wars movie. He's the one who coined the name of Coruscant, after all.


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