The Enzyme Nerf Cometh


Airhammer

 

Posted

One plus is that I never again will have to question what to reward to get from a STF or LRSF.

I'm seriously considered deleting a 50 over this, something I have never done. I didn't think it would effect me this much, but it really does take a lot of enjoyment out of playing my DM/SD. I enjoyed him because he was consistent. He wasn't hurt by most debuffs, didn't have a mez defense, and had solid damage. I know, SR was weaker than SD in every aspect, but now I have no intention of ever playing one of my characters again and I am currently in the process of stripping said character of all enhancements. It is too bad I can't strip his incarnate powers down too.

This is the character I soloed a MoITF in under an hour with, who was able to beat every Preatorian AV, and who soloed most of the GMs in game. I invested a lot of time and effort into him, and now that effort is largely wasted because I cannot, with any combination of enhancements or incarnate powers, get him to the level he was once at or replicate any of my feats. I'm glad I switched to my TW/Elec Brute, because my relationship with that character is over.

I will still keep a few Dam/Acc and Dam/Range HOs, but I basically have downgraded them to the category of Kinetic Crash and other "bad" IO sets. Little to no utility for most of my builds, and certainly not better than other options in 90% of cases. General rule of thumb is that IO sets will always be a better option if you have room for them. Which is sad IMHO.


TW/Elec Optimization

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
I hypothesize that they might half-work the opposite way in something like Mind Link, which can normally be slotted for defense but not recharge, but I have not yet tested that.
Based on how it's implemented, I don't think it will work in Mind Link (i.e. only the defense part will be enhanced by Membranes). All of the HO effects were tagged with the enhancement type, not just the defense ones.

Which is a little annoying since IOs do work there, and will continue to.


 

Posted

I knew this day would come, and already started transitioning builds from enzymes to cytos starting late last year.

Luckily, for powers slotted with 2 HO's and 1 LotG 7.5 (Lv50), the difference in enhancement value is not very much at all. High end builds can expect to lose ~1% defense which you can make up by overslotting elsewhere.

The only build of mine that really needed working over was (ironically) my SR, who had so many def powers she was way over the LotG cap and relied on 2x enzymes for slot efficiency.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
No, Active Defense will still provide decent DDR. Shields as a whole will still be among the best sets for DDR.

What it won't have is the same DDR as Super Reflexes but be better in almost every other way on top of that.
About freaking time I say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Codewalker View Post
Which is a little annoying since IOs do work there, and will continue to.
Should they? Maybe they should take a look at how IOs affect mindlink while they are at it.


When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...


BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laevateinn View Post
Luckily, for powers slotted with 2 HO's and 1 LotG 7.5 (Lv50), the difference in enhancement value is not very much at all. High end builds can expect to lose ~1% defense which you can make up by overslotting elsewhere.
You'll feel it more when you exemplar.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite Agent View Post
Prices already are in freefall on Enzymes and Membrances on Live, especially Synthetic versions (which is just stupid as they are the same as normal ones afaik).
It's not a nerf, it's an Empathy buff. Membranes work great in Fortitude!


@Mindshadow

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Test_Rat View Post
About freaking time I say.
On scrappers/brutes, yes. Shields still outclasses SR in every way possible on tankers, including being able to incarnate-softcap and cap DDR (without the exploit), though SR still ekes out a niche as a lowbie tanker set. I always wondered why the set was ported to tankers as is without changes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by all_hell View Post
You'll feel it more when you exemplar.
You can exemplar all the way down to 32 before enhancement scaling kicks in, I think. That's still a good chunk of the level range. With alpha slot only working at 45+, it makes sense to make dedicated exemplar builds anyway.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite Agent View Post
How? If Membranes don't work then Cytos shouldn't work either. And MIDS at least says normal DEF IOs cannot be slotted into AD, only endo or recharge.
Ahhh ffuuuuu you're right, damn.


Virtue: @Santorican

Dark/Shield Build Thread

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santorican View Post
Ahhh ffuuuuu you're right, damn.
Which probably means best AD slotting is going to be either 2 lvl 50 recharge IOs -- or maybe 1 lvl 50 recharge IO +5'd -- to get 30-40 seconds of stacking AD.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laevateinn View Post
You can exemplar all the way down to 32 before enhancement scaling kicks in, I think. That's still a good chunk of the level range. With alpha slot only working at 45+, it makes sense to make dedicated exemplar builds anyway.
That's the kind of build I'm making if I'm slotting ~78% def enhancement into a power.


 

Posted

Well, I can't say I didn't see it coming. Fortunately for me, I only use Cyto's in my builds anyway and not Enzymes or membranes - never felt comfortable "cheating" the values, even if it wasn't explicitly a bug.


 

Posted

Has anyone confirmed that membranes no longer work in AD, on beta/test???


 

Posted

The patch note is worded very carefully.

If the wording is meant to be taken exactly as it is written, Enzymes will not buff defense because they do not say they buff defense. Likewise, Membranes will not buff DDR, because they do not say they will.

If the wording is actually correct, slotting Membranes in Widow Mind Link should not be affected by this, because Membranes in that power are enhancing things they say they enhance.

This is not worded like the Alpha Slot. The Alpha Slot will not enhance things that a power does not accept enhancements for. Spiritual Alpha does not enhance Mind Link, because Mind Link does not accept basic Recharge enhancers. This is not worded like that.

It is up to testing to determine if the wording is as correct as it is specific. I should be able to find out tonight.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazz View Post
Well, I can't say I didn't see it coming. Fortunately for me, I only use Cyto's in my builds anyway and not Enzymes or membranes - never felt comfortable "cheating" the values, even if it wasn't explicitly a bug.
/agree

This impacts me hardly at all.

However, I expect the price of cyto's to SKYROCKET, as every invuln build suddenly has a very good use for them.


 

Posted

This will make almost all hamios obsolete. :/



Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Pine_ View Post
This will make almost all hamios obsolete. :/
Cytos are,were, and will remain the best slotting choice for Invincibility.

As for the rest, well, if Hamidon IS part of The big Bad, maybe the Dev's should re-touch his bits a little.

Just sayin'.


 

Posted

So to get this straight on my dm/inv the enzyme exposure slotted in invincibility(for example but take any of my defense and pool defense powers) is no longer gonna do anything


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purus View Post
So to get this straight on my dm/inv the enzyme exposure slotted in invincibility(for example but take any of my defense and pool defense powers) is no longer gonna do anything
Yep. And the hundreds of millions you spent for said enzymes will likely be wasted as enzymes plummet in value. It also makes shield defense 4-5 times weaker to defense debuffs (5% to 20-25% effectiveness).


TW/Elec Optimization

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purus View Post
So to get this straight on my dm/inv the enzyme exposure slotted in invincibility(for example but take any of my defense and pool defense powers) is no longer gonna do anything
It will no longer buff defense. It will still buff end reduction.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

This is very bad.



Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.

 

Posted

Where does this leave DM/Invulnerability on the most survivable list now?


 

Posted

In my opinion, this has a fairly minor effect on Invul's peak performance. From a single powerset impact, where this change has the biggest effect is on Shield, not Invul, because it prevents these HOs from buffing Defense Debuff Resistance (DDR). The impact on many builds is that a they will have to spend more slots to get the same defense, or accept some loss in defense slotting.

To give you some idea, here are combinations found in many of my current builds. (Numbers given include ED.)

Enzyme, Def/End IO (50), LotG:+Rech(25) [~60% defense enhancement ]
Enzyme, Def/End IO (50) [~49% defense enhancement]
Enzyme, LotG:+Rech(25) [~45% defense enhancement]

About the closest I can get by replacing the Enzyme only is to slot in a nother level 50 Defense/End piece (from a different set if I already have one) and use Enhancement Boosters. You can also trade out low-level LotG:Recharge IOs for higher-level ones. Using all of them pretty much keeps me where I was. Using some of them will get me pretty close, but not exactly where I was, depending on which slotting regime we're looking at. See below.

Def/End IO (50+5), Def/End IO (50+5), LotG:+Rech(50+5) [~60% defense enhancement]
Def/End IO (50+5), Def/End IO (50+5), LotG:+Rech(25+5) [~52% defense enhancement]
Def/End IO (50+5), Def/End IO (50+5) [~40% defense enhancement]
Def/End IO (50+5), LotG:+Rech(50+5) [~40% defense enhancement]
Def/End IO (50+5), LotG:+Rech(25+5) [~35% defense enhancement]

So we can still get there if we're willing to obtain boosters and possible give up some recharge bonuses while exemplared.

Edit: I realized while out at dinner that the above is silly for not simply plugging in a Cyto. In fact a ++ Cyto and one +5 Def/End IO will be the best combination slotting under the new change.

Expect Cyto prices to rise, as others have observed.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite Agent View Post
Has anyone confirmed that membranes no longer work in AD, on beta/test???
The copy tool has now caught up and put my /shield scrapper on beta, so yes, I can confirm directly that Membranes do not buff Active Defense's DDR.


 

Posted

Interesting, I now really want to know why San decided to bid on Membranes after hearing about this earlier today.


 

Posted

I hope this fix wouldn't affect players from joining the Hamidon raid. It's one of the few events in CoX that I and many others enjoy.