I have 2 questions . . .
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-01-09 21:32 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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The Praetors are generally evil, selfish, and/or misguided. Some of the Resistance leaders are no better. Overall the Resistance are more heroic, but both sides have people trying to do good and bad.|
Originally Posted by Lady Vectress
1) I know this may make me sound pretty dumb, but in Praetoria, who are the real good guys, the Praetors or the Resistance? I know there's those different "trees" I guess where you can be a certain type of Loyalist, or a certain type of Resistance member, but are the Praetors truly evil?
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| 2) Can you play as an Epic Archetype in the new Galaxy invasion tutorial, because I can't seem to get any new Peacebringer on there, and if I'm not mistaken, you could be a Peacebringer on the original tutorial. |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Neither. Both sides have at least some people who are perfectly willing to murder innocent people to further their goals.|
Originally Posted by Lady Vectress
1) in Praetoria, who are the real good guys, the Praetors or the Resistance?
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And when I say "some", I mean too many for them to be considered as rogues or loose cannons.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Ok here are some answers for you Lady V.
1. in Praetoria, who is good and who is evil depends greatly on who's doing the asking. Personally, I think they're all insane. There are 4 different paths for getting through and the closest ones to "good" are the Responsibility Loyalists and the Warden Crusaders. Even with that, they ask you to do some questionable things in the name of 'the greater good.'
2. the epic AT's (PB, WS, widows and soldiers) are not given the option of doing the tutorial. they start directly in Atlas or Mercy.
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
I've found that if I want to play a good character in Praetoria, I have to ignore the symbols and just pick the best moral option as I see it.
And that's the point of Praetoria: confusion. 
As Obi-Wan said, everything is true, from a certain point of view.
/There is no right answer here.
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
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The actual Praetors themselves would be evil by most measures, yes, at least in an "ends justify the means" way. The Loyalists as a whole are merely grey.
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Originally Posted by Lady Vectress
but are the Praetors truly evil?
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The only choice is obvious -
Chuck Norris.
The Resistance have a few crazies on their side, but in the overall storyline of Going Rogue, Tyrant and the Praetors are the major villains.
Tyrant's loyalists use mass-murder, torture, slavery and brain-washing to keep the people "safe" - and in the later Praetorian content, the loyalists launch an invasion of Primal Earth as a part of Tyrant's larger plan to take over the entire multiverse.
Tyrant and the Praetors have been major villains since Issue 1, and GR was a chance to experience life from inside his empire, rather than being a visitor from outside it - and while the look and parts of the lore were changed, the basic personalities and motivations of the Praetors didn't really change.
Game mechanics-wise, loyalists are flagegd as Villains, and Resistance are flagged as Heroes.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Wow, thanks for all the replies!
Everyone's evil in Praetoria: you can either support a backstabbing, mass-murdering psychopath, or, not play in Praetoria. That's why Portal Corp is developing a massive invisible portal to Praetoria that will be placed between Earth and the Battalion. Time to genocide those jerks up.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
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The alternative is to have the world devoured by the Hamidon. At least with tyranny, people get to live, amirite?
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
and in the later Praetorian content, the loyalists launch an invasion of Primal Earth as a part of Tyrant's larger plan to take over the entire multiverse.
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Give me liberty AND give me death!
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
The alternative is to have the world devoured by the Hamidon. At least with tyranny, people get to live, amirite?
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Well, Hamidon won't necessarily kill you. He'll just turn you into a ravenous monster bent on destroying and/or corrupting everyone you ever loved.
But hey, if it means sticking it to that mean old dictator guy, it's worth it, isn't it!?
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But who's to say you'll be less happy while doing so than you would be drugged with Enriche?
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Well, Hamidon won't necessarily kill you. He'll just turn you into a ravenous monster bent on destroying and/or corrupting everyone you ever loved.
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Hey, I don't judge! If you're a proponent of the Devouring Earth, go for it.
As succinctly put, both sides in Praetoria are pretty ****** up. And not a good kind of ****** up where you trip over a rug after having too many whiskey shots, but a "holy hell, this acid trip had me thinking my face was being gnawed off by army ants" kind of ****** up.
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There's always the 3rd way of freedom with secruity |
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Hey, I don't judge! If you're a proponent of the Devouring Earth, go for it.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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If you corrupt everyone you loved you can be a happy family of ravenous monsters.|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Well, Hamidon won't necessarily kill you. He'll just turn you into a ravenous monster bent on destroying and/or corrupting everyone you ever loved.
But hey, if it means sticking it to that mean old dictator guy, it's worth it, isn't it!? |
Of course, your scenario assumes that the only way to defend against Hamidon is to go along with the tyranny of Emperor Cole.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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The Incarnate storyline seems to suggest that there's another way |
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Of course, your scenario assumes that the only way to defend against Hamidon is to go along with the tyranny of Emperor Cole.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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There's a story there?
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The Incarnate storyline seems to suggest that there's another way
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Yeah, everyone is generally right. Praetoria tries to be a 'morally grey all over' with a heavy side of f'ed up.
if you want the 'least evil' paths, the 'Responsibility' storyline for the Loyalists and the Warden storyline for the Resistance are both more heroic, where you're generally concerned with protecting the people more than your own personal gain or getting at the empire at any cost. For the most part you won't feel too dirty, up until the moral choice missions, which tend to throw you a curveball in that staying on the path you're on will make you feel bad.
as for the Praetors themselves... they do flesh them out as characters and show that they're not all 100% evil, like Marauder and his girlfriend Cleopatra or Anti-Matter actually being sorta committed to his job protecting people. On the other hand, some of the others it -really- highlights how downright insane, careless, and cruel they can be (Tilman and Berry come to mind).
And.. well, even Tyrant once you understand the whole situation with Hamidon doesn't seem quite as evil. I mean the whole thing is pretty horrific, but you can understand his logic, since his options were essentially snuff out free will or lose the world to Hamidon.
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The Incarnate Storyline is basically going to end up with beating the snot out of Cole, then beating the snot out of Hamidon once Cole's empire crumbles and everyone realizes that Cole's evil system was the only thing stopping the Devouring Earth from steamrolling Praetoria.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The Incarnate storyline seems to suggest that there's another way
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This part of Praetorian Earth's situation has always kind of reminded me of the iron-fisted rule that safeguards the Empire of Man in the universe of Warhammer 40,000. Always just near the edge of extinction at the hands of its enemies both within and without, priorities are quite different from what most free citizens take for granted in real life. In that fictional universe, mankind cannot afford luxuries like individual freedoms, because even stray thoughts damn entire worlds, and thought police are everywhere.|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
The alternative is to have the world devoured by the Hamidon. At least with tyranny, people get to live, amirite?
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It also makes me think about one of my favorite science fiction shows, the remake of Battlestar Galactica. It seems like every time the fleet--which is what remained of humankind--resisted the urge to remove civil liberties for the sake of safety over freedom, their enemies took advantage of any resulting vulnerabilities (which were always numerous), and the consequences were always grim.
Science fiction is an excellent medium for cautionary tales, and most avid science fiction readers can tell who Going Rogue's writers gleaned some of their inspiration from. Writers like Philip K. Dick and Isaac Asimov probably would have approved highly of its overall theme. Individual freedoms are deemed inalienable rights and entitlements as a matter of principle; but the fact of the matter is that if things got truly messed up (like a superior alien civilization invading our own), our saviors--if we had any--might not be relatable from the perspective of any kindhearted person.
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I don't know...Warden arc seems to be all good choices untill the last one. And then, it's more of a morally grey area and not really villainous as people could not die at all, and you're removing a bad item, but not directly hurting anyone (it's more of a possible longterm possibility).|
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
I've found that if I want to play a good character in Praetoria, I have to ignore the symbols and just pick the best moral option as I see it.
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But to the OP...the praetors themselves (Tyrant, Dominatrix, ect) are evil. The Loyalists themselves, can be either.
Wardens tend to be heros in the sense that they know there's bad things happening and going the typical hero route of trying to fix things.
R. Loyalists know less of the dark secrets and trying to follow the law of the land.
Think Chaos Good vs Lawful Good.
The other sides of those groups are different. And generally more evil in the typical sense of evil (without getting into the moral debate of what people consider evil and not evil).
So you can play hero on either side, they're just coming at it from a different view points but both valid...up to a point.
Once the loyalist knows how evil the Praetors are...would they still do all that? Would they still think well YES! Let's subjagate everyone for their own good (and possibly their own profit)...maybe yes just because that's what the one in charge says to.
It's tough choices in Praetoria.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
1) I know this may make me sound pretty dumb, but in Praetoria, who are the real good guys, the Praetors or the Resistance? I know there's those different "trees" I guess where you can be a certain type of Loyalist, or a certain type of Resistance member, but are the Praetors truly evil?
2) Can you play as an Epic Archetype in the new Galaxy invasion tutorial, because I can't seem to get any new Peacebringer on there, and if I'm not mistaken, you could be a Peacebringer on the original tutorial.