Wentworth's - perfect player auction house or what?
By
Bosstone,
Posted on: 2012-01-02 19:49 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I'm not fond of their locations. Grandville and PI really need to invest in their infrastructure. Most of my toons spend all of their time in Cap or Steel Canyon.
Cap is great with access to a Uni, ferry, vault, SG portal, and RWZ close by. All it lacks is a quartermaster nearby.
Steel lacks quick access to PI and the RWZ. The SG portal is a bit of a run as is the train.
I just wish at least A-merits bought you the built IO and not the recipe.
If updating non-IOs wasn't such a hassle I wouldn't touch WW aside from dumping salvage and recipes for 1 inf. If they put a "update all enhancements" button on the vendors that'd automatically buy the highest level version you can use of each enhancement you have and do the combining automatically the only IO's I'd use on most characters would be -kbs, stealths, and the like.
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That's one of the better things about WW. Okay, dumping everything on the market for 1 inf isn't the most efficient way to make inf, but it does provide a surprisingly reasonable return, and certainly more than enough to pay for SOs and the odd -KB IO.|
Originally Posted by Ogi
If updating non-IOs wasn't such a hassle I wouldn't touch WW aside from dumping salvage and recipes for 1 inf.
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I'd really hope that any alternate system proposed caters equally as well for those people who want as little to do with the market as possible.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
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Yeah, what I find weird is that it seems the people who complain about the market are the ones looking to game it. The ones who just want to buy, sell, and be done are happy with it.|
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
That's one of the better things about WW. Okay, dumping everything on the market for 1 inf isn't the most efficient way to make inf, but it does provide a surprisingly reasonable return, and certainly more than enough to pay for SOs and the odd -KB IO.
I'd really hope that any alternate system proposed caters equally as well for those people who want as little to do with the market as possible. |
You get one salvage that sells for 1 million and you are set. You will never run out of influence buying SO's again, maybe if you dual build.
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A monopoly implies that one person controls all the means of production. That's not possible in this game. Everyone is producing more salvage all of the time. I suppose one person could buy up everything, but it seems more likely that a whole bunch of people just happened to be buying similar things at a similar time. Supply and demand are both in constant fluctuation. That randomness is enough to cause spikes and crashes without having to blame malicious players. |
Originally Posted by LordAethar
There were several different pieces he needed - all were expensive but some were blatant monopolies and market manipulations. Some pieces were in very short supply (only about 20 on the market) and were selling for over a million per piece. Again, this for common salvage.
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Anyhow, placing a reasonable bid and waiting 24 hours can work wonders. Whether it's random or deliberate, high prices tend to pass quickly if they aren't supported by the fundamentals of supply and demand.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
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Oh I don't disagree with you there. The actual sell history is a great idea but only going to 5 is, as Venture pointed out, is almost worse because it's so manipulatable.|
Originally Posted by Bosstone
I am not saying the 'last 5' method is perfect. In fact I think showing only the last 5 is a poor limitation. I am saying the concept of showing what prices people have been willing to buy at, ie any selling history at all is more useful than the concept of showing what prices people want to sell for. Irrespective of any other characteristic of the market, that is a plus in its favor. An ideal system would have a mix of both, but in a 1 to 1 comparison selling history comes ahead of in-stock prices. Admittedly, it's a plus in its favor for sellers, not necessarily buyers, so I suppose one's mileage may vary.
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The problem, I imagine, with allowing a longer history would be an exponentially impossible ammount of weight upon the databases trying to keep track of every single item on the market. So standard code rant aside, I bet there's no easy answer to that.
Edit: Also when it comes to other markets, my MMO experience is rather limited. This one (long time player though). Another that has no auction/market system that I can compare with, and another I only started playing a few months ago causually on the side and haven't even looked at the market there. That said, my basis of comparison with other MMO auction/markets is limited.
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
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I just want to buy and sell at reasonable, preferably set prices and be done with it. I largely ignore IOs, even basic IOs anymore, because I've either found the costs to be far too high, or the supply of what I'm looking for to be too low/practically non-existant. I don't even bother trying to sell most recipes anywhere but a vendor any more - if I ever found a purple recipe I might, or if I got one of the global bonus IOs/procs that there's always a demand for. I'll put salvage up if I see a demand, at a price equal to what a vendor would give me for it plus the Wentworth fee (263 for Common, 1052 for Uncommon, and 5263 for Rare IIRC).
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
Yeah, what I find weird is that it seems the people who complain about the market are the ones looking to game it. The ones who just want to buy, sell, and be done are happy with it.
You get one salvage that sells for 1 million and you are set. You will never run out of influence buying SO's again, maybe if you dual build. |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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I have no problems with the market, all it takes is a little patience. I don't game it at all, and often delete stacks of salvage and/or recipies in my inventory just because it's annoying when It's full and I don't want to mess with selling them. I yet to have over a billion on any character, ever, but I generally can get what I want given time and being smart about it.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
Yeah, what I find weird is that it seems the people who complain about the market are the ones looking to game it. The ones who just want to buy, sell, and be done are happy with it.
You get one salvage that sells for 1 million and you are set. You will never run out of influence buying SO's again, maybe if you dual build. |
Plus I tend to hoard stuff because I know I'll probably need it eventually on one of my alts. That doesn't hurt either
I really wish those storage upgrades weren't so darned expensive though. Still haven't bought any, but am so tempted sometimes...
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
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Oh agreed that SCR applies here, hell even just having a previous 7 day running average would make it a lot easier to actually be able to gauge what to sell stuff at (so only once a day would the query be ran, and then that is it for the next 24 hours).|
Originally Posted by Lycantropus
Oh I don't disagree with you there. The actual sell history is a great idea but only going to 5 is, as Venture pointed out, is almost worse because it's so manipulatable.
The problem, I imagine, with allowing a longer history would be an exponentially impossible ammount of weight upon the databases trying to keep track of every single item on the market. So standard code rant aside, I bet there's no easy answer to that. |
But from what the developers have said, when you look at the market, it downloads a *load* of information that actually isnt needed. Which to me means that it needs working on in the 1st place. Whilst that is happening, why not add in a few QoL features
((note: reducing the amount of downloaded information could actually bring the WW/BM back into mission/bases again!))
So yeah, SCR applies, but if they are going to be working on it at any point in time, might as well suggest improvements.
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That doesn't work for me. If I'm doing something with IOs, it has to be done right then. I can't wait 24 hours because if I do it may actually be weeks before I log back into that character and there's a good chance I'd've forgotten what I was trying to do in 24 hours much less several weeks.|
Originally Posted by Lycantropus
I have no problems with the market, all it takes is a little patience.
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There was a time when I was able to accomplish an IO goal. In the past I managed to outfit ONE character with IO sets largely conforming to my desired build (it was mainly lacking the various +Regen/Recovery IOs in the healing sets as they were FAR out of my price range). In more recent times, the few instances where I've looked into the possibility of setting up one of my characters the task looked hopeless either due to lack of supply or outrageous prices.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Heh, I agree completely. Haven't dropped any points on any kind of storage increase. The prices are simply too high. Like you, though, I am tempted from time to time.
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Originally Posted by Lycantropus
I really wish those storage upgrades weren't so darned expensive though. Still haven't bought any, but am so tempted sometimes...
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Q. Just wondering Posi, where are the new dance emotes we were told would come with GR?
A. Positron: Whoops, my bad.
1387 badges, and counting
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I'm not terribly bothered by disabling the market interface in general missions. But, I really wish I could access the market interface while in my base, where I have a crafting table.
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Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
((note: reducing the amount of downloaded information could actually bring the WW/BM back into mission/bases again!))
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Q. Just wondering Posi, where are the new dance emotes we were told would come with GR?
A. Positron: Whoops, my bad.
1387 badges, and counting
My only problem with the Auction House is that it's literally an Auction House. It's not very superheroic. I would have put different skins over the market, like a science lab, mystic temple, and training centre.
I don't know a lot about other MMO markets so I don't have a lot of basis for
comparison.
That said, I've been here a long time, and I think some things are beneficially
true due to the market that were pretty much impossible before it.
Pre-Market: 100M was *vast* wealth. My L50 main from I-1 days had a whopping
30M on him (by I-3) and he was rich. He lacked for nothing.
Post-Market: These days, all of my toons typically have 50-100M before they
hit L20 - my old I-1 main is a homeless beggar comparatively
Several of my toons are billionaires... And the fun part? SO prices haven't changed by
a single inf since Day-1. At ~20M for SO's (over an entire career), I could afford
SO's on every toon I could imagine and fill my character slots with, and still
have billions of inf left over - talk about buying power. 
Pre-Market: Speaking of SO's, if you were replacing them every 5 levels, L25-L35
was a difficult time inf-wise for most characters and L22 could be difficult for some.
Post-Market: All of my toons are IO'd, I've not used TO/DO's in years, and I
can count the number of toons that use SO's (any at all) on one hand. In most
cases - my toons are frankenslotted with set pieces and common IO's by L27.
The market has completely changed the way I equip all of my characters in a
vastly more effective way from a performance perspective (Post-ED, of course).
Solo Play: That's my style 90% of the time. In the past, that meant it was difficult
for me to get certain IO's from drops, tf's, trials... Through the market, however,
np - I could buy them there... That situation has changed more recently with
merits and AE tix etc, but *availability* of stuff I wouldn't be able to get by
myself from normal content I tend to play is a LOT higher with the Market than
without it.
For myself, I'm very confidant saying that the buying power of all of my toons,
has been astronomically increased with the addition of the market.
There are several things I'd like added as improvements, and personally, I detest
the god-awful UI they saddled us with, but even as WW is today, it's a huge
improvement to the game, and to the capabilities of my characters.
YMMV.
Regards,
4
PS> I'm not going to address "Last 5", "manipulation" and such in this post (it's
long enough already), except to say those issues, while existing, are vastly
overblown by those decrying them...
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
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I used to think the updated WW interface was a ridiculously bad piece of design. Since the arrival of the Paragon Market, I'm just thankful that it wasn't much, much worse.
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Originally Posted by FourSpeed
There are several things I'd like added as improvements, and personally, I detest the god-awful UI they saddled us with, but even as WW is today, it's a huge improvement to the game, and to the capabilities of my characters.
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Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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Hehehe - don't get me started on their various UI's... ugh... There are still elements|
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
I used to think the updated WW interface was a ridiculously bad piece of design. Since the arrival of the Paragon Market, I'm just thankful that it wasn't much, much worse.
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of the basic UI that have been buggy crap from day 1.
With the recentadditions, I'm becoming increasingly convinced that there is no bottom limit
to how terribad they can make any given UI.
Thankfully, even with a crappy UI, the WW/BM itself has still been one of the most
effective player-enabling systems in the entire game - by a wide margin imho.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
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I *cannot* disagree with you there, Wentworths has done *really* well for spreading wealth amongst the players, especially in conjunction with the IO system.|
Originally Posted by FourSpeed
*snip long post*
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Without the IO system, WW/BM wouldn't have gone down as well.
Hell, i am *glad* that there is at least some form of listing items/salvage etc for other players to purchase.. am just stating that there is room for improvement with the interface and the information that is relayed to us...
Sure with a double blind setup, there isnt all that much that you can do, but even just listing the *time* of the last transactions (and not just the date) would come in handy
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That used to be shown, and it was useful. It disappeared in the UI 'upgrade'.
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Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Sure with a double blind setup, there isnt all that much that you can do, but even just listing the *time* of the last transactions (and not just the date) would come in handy
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Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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More than likely it was something that i didnt notice 1st time around, and after playing with the market for a while *after* the upgrade i noticed something was "wrong"...
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Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
That used to be shown, and it was useful. It disappeared in the UI 'upgrade'.
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Yes because without the IO system we wouldn't have much of anything to sell at WW/BM. |
Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Without the IO system, WW/BM wouldn't have gone down as well.
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Oh sure you might be able to buy Origin Enhancements (TO/DO/SO) cheaper than stores and sell them for more than stores but that'll be the price range.
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This. It could would exactly the same BUT pretend to be Star Labs or similar. Making it an auction house finally killed the notion that Influence is actually influence and not $
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Originally Posted by Vox Populi
My only problem with the Auction House is that it's literally an Auction House. It's not very superheroic. I would have put different skins over the market, like a science lab, mystic temple, and training centre.
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This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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Yeah, as much as I've enjoyed the market mini-game, I've never felt that it belonged in a superhero game. Looting corpses just isn't heroic. It's not even properly villainous. Dr. Doom wouldn't sink to going through Reed Richard's pockets looking for something he could sell for a profit. The mechanics are ok, but the window dressing never seemed suitable. But then, I'm not delighted with the AE window dressing either. A virtual world thingy, sure. Holodeck, danger room, no problem. But being sucked into a computer created by an archvillain? You have no choice but to ignore that silly storyline every time you use the AE.
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Originally Posted by Jagged
This. It could would exactly the same BUT pretend to be Star Labs or similar. Making it an auction house finally killed the notion that Influence is actually influence and not $
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Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
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In that game the market is half the game. Here it's just an extra. Makes a difference in terms of resources devoted to it.
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Originally Posted by newchemicals
I played a popular online space game that had a much better market than WWs.
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@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
The question in the OP is a wide open one, because it's wildly subjective what a "perfect" in-game market is. Is it one with the highest trade efficiency between players? Is it the one that provides the simplest interactions? Is it the one with the most facilities for traders or game economists? Is it the one that provides the most interesting interactions, creating a market mini-game? I'm sure that's not all the options.
Some of those possible targets for what a perfect market should be are in opposition to one another. Moving towards one tends to move away from one or more of the others. No one market will provide all those features.
What I think the CoH market does do is strike a surprisingly good balance between several of those features. I think it discards nearly all economist/trader facilities and some market efficiency in the interests of simplicity of interaction and the mini-game. While many people dislike the shield the market's anonymous transactions provide, that same anonymity also avoids finger-pointing and other personal drama originating from market interactions, which I personally feel is a worthwhile sacrifice in the name of community for a game that doesn't treat the market as a core element to progress.
So, no, I don't think our in-game market is perfect, but given all the competing things that it could try to do or be, it does a pretty good job of being a good fit for this CoH, given CoH's broader design, genre and community.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Eh, I played this game for several years before it even had a market. Sure I've made many billions of profit from it and sure it could be improved upon, but it's hardly what I would call my main motivation for continuing to play this game.
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