It's getting worse (new content)


Agent White

 

Posted

Please keep in mind, the following is my opinion and not a basis of fact. Please add any comments on how you feel about the following:

Decided to finally take a stroll through First Ward...

The zone is visually beautiful and unique.
The lore is deep and astounding.

The system elements within are getting worse.

  • Mission Accept text (or interaction text) ran off the contact gump 1/3 of the time. Yes, it even happens during a cut-scene of all things.
  • NPCs spam the screen with dialogue at an astounding rate at times.
  • Player interaction follows a script when dealing with contact vs offering a general reaction. Comedic Example: "I'm gonna punch you in the face, $contact" vs "Express your discontent with $contact"
  • 2 Reward Merits per arc. Period.
I will say, I found a few of the cast very memorable but this is a "1 and Done" for me. I'm becoming very concerned if there's even an awareness of how important substance and rewards are.

I know it had to take a significant amount of time and effort to create all this new content, but jeez... it's so technically unrewarding to return with another character. And forget teaming-up for story content... only the mission holder gets the measly 2 Merits.

At least "The Seed of Hamidon" has 5 Reward Merits + Badge + Temp 30 min XP/INF boost for those that participate. (I feel the other GMs & Zone Events could use a boost along these lines - especially Lusca)

While I'm seriously glad Lore & Story isn't being ignored... I'm quite bothered that Rewards are nowhere in the vicinity of being in-line with rewards found elsewhere... and let's face it... it's a game and rewards are a factor.

So, why on Earth would I endorse these arcs that average roughly 3 Merits per hour when I can get:
  • 1 Alignment Merit on a Signature Story Arc in 15 mins
  • 1/2 Alignment Merit credit in about 30 mins doing Tips
  • Roughly 15 (edit - 26) Merits per hour in Ouroborus on certain old arcs (these can be acquired on teams for all members to boot)
  • 1500 Tickets in around 5 mins towards rolls in AE
It's almost as if either there's no gauger for rewards OR participation on Praetorian-related content is feared.

Perhaps Praetoria wouldn't be a wasteland if its rewards were in-line with Primal rewards. I personally loved all the awesome content and visuals on my 2 runs with noobie toons through Praetoria when GR was released, but the rewards were crud and the desolation of the zones is warranted.

I don't know how many cents I just posted, but you can keep the change.


 

Posted

Well, you can't compare the story arc rewards to SSAs or tips or TFs, you can really only compare them to other story arcs. That said, I'm admittedly unsure how the FW arcs stack up to regular arcs, but I do know the FW arcs were all pretty quick, like 3-4 short missions each.

I saw First Ward as an experiment, myself. They were trying to pack the story into the mission rather than compartmentalize it into the accept/complete dialogue and Clues. It worked for me, as although I do my best to read mission text when soloing, I don't always grok the plot, whereas I did for the First Ward stuff. The avalanche of NPC text was indeed overdone, though, especially since it frequently happened at the same time as an ambush or similar.

I didn't...hate the zone? But it's not really repeatable for me either. I went through it once for the story, but I have no pressing desire to return with another character.


De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupaFreak View Post
I don't know how many cents I just posted, but you can keep the change.
I'm curious, then... how would you change it? What would constitute an improvement? Greater rewards? Different mechanics?

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite


Dark_Respite's Farewell Video: "One Last Day"
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
Well, you can't compare the story arc rewards to SSAs or tips or TFs, you can really only compare them to other story arcs. That said, I'm admittedly unsure how the FW arcs stack up to regular arcs, but I do know the FW arcs were all pretty quick, like 3-4 short missions each.
They're short arcs, but not THAT short. In the 20-24 range, Doc Delilah's arc is only 3 missions long, but gives 6 merits. Long Jack has 4 door missions, and gives 16 merits. I got 15 merits yesterday for running Stephanie Peebles' arc, almost as much as I would get for doing all of First Ward, and I'm quite sure First Ward would take much longer and be more difficult. If there's a reason for First Ward arcs to be much less rewarding than other tasks in their level range, I don't know what it is.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Respite View Post
I'm curious, then... how would you change it? What would constitute an improvement? Greater rewards? Different mechanics?
I really don't want to get myself into posting suggestions/ideas here regarding this since that kinda belongs in those Forums... but it's honestly been the trend since Issue 10 "Invasion" in regards to story arcs and the Merit Rewards... and they are gradually getting worse.

I've expressed my discontent with "Merits for mission holder only" through tells to red-names in the past as well as offering suggestions.

After opening my Rewards-Tracking excel sheet, I will just say there are certain pre-I10 arcs that award upwards of 24 Merits per hour in that level range and everything since Issue 10 awards 14 or less... regardless of level range.

I've been here since Beta and trust me, I love this game and want to see it thrive... but I feel when a good chunk of our content is unrewarding to play and it begins to feel like you're being herded into "farming" limited content to be rewarded... it's easy to see why some possible subscribers look the other way. "Eye Candy" only goes so far.


 

Posted

I personally loved the story of 1st Ward and didn't even realize I was getting any reward besides exp until after I was done and I started running tips (then noticed how many merits I had). Frankly, if I want rewards, I can go do the aforementioned farmed content for that.

But I have to admit, this is more a solo-oriented thread of content in my eyes. I did run some missions of a few strangers I met when I was in 1st ward, but it was their missions and I had already done the ones they were on...I enjoyed the twists and turns but only the mission holder would really get a feel for them.

Yes, any tag-alongers could read the NPC dialog because much of what is said in those windows is said in chat for everyone to read, but it zips by so fast, I was forced to make a tab for the dialog so I could go back and reread anything I missed.

All in all, I liked it but unless there are some other twists (by my choices) in this thread, I probably won't run it on any other characters. This little thread of content will be [Y] character's bit of thread in the tapestry of the CoX lore, just like Vincent Ross' arc is [X] character's thread or Dean McArthur's arc is [Z]'s. The only time I'd ever run those arcs again is if I were teamed and primarily for the fun of it but will only be 'canon' for my X, Y and Z characters.

There are some arcs that just feel 'right' as a one-man show vs a team. Anyway, I'm hoping there's a good deal more content like this. I give it a thumbs up


 

Posted

I don't see the justification for not rewarding the other players and only the mission holder. That kind of stuff has repercussions that someone on the dev team never gives it the consideration it deserves. Not to mention the ramped up enemies you encounter.

I ran it once on one of my scrappers and returned only to help some friends get through it. It is a pity to spend that much dev time on something only to have it almost ignored due to bad decisions that are out of line with the rest of the game. Silliness.


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
Well, you can't compare the story arc rewards to SSAs or tips or TFs, you can really only compare them to other story arcs. That said, I'm admittedly unsure how the FW arcs stack up to regular arcs, but I do know the FW arcs were all pretty quick, like 3-4 short missions each.

I didn't...hate the zone? But it's not really repeatable for me either. I went through it once for the story, but I have no pressing desire to return with another character.
Note that I didn't compare to TFs or anything I need a team to do. And actually, I feel I somewhat can compare it to SSAs and Tips since they are both soloable.

While it's true Alignment (A)Merits are time-gated, they equal roughly 125 Merits for those of us who play multiple characters and when the time comes - focus on the rewards to build a new character with an established character.

Some may argue that newer arcs require less travel... you can't discard all the methods of teleportation we now have to cover ground on old arcs... making that arguement less valid.

I guess I should stress where I see the overall problem:
TIPS - SOLO (rewards focused)
1 (A)Merit = @125 Merits
1 (A)Merit = @60 minutes per character over 2 days
1 (A)Merit = @125 Merits / hour

SOLO (rewards focused)
Unnamed Old Arcs = @25 Merits / hour
New Arcs since Issue 10 = 3-14 Merits / hour

Merits are becoming less and less valuable. (A)Merits are 5x more valuable than old arcs and up to 40x more valuable than new arcs.

Is this a good formula for prolonged success? To herd those seeking rewards on content into farming Tips & SSAs when solo? Heck, doing this with multiple characters right now is probably more rewarding than teaming on Weekly Strike Tasks.

And can Reward Merits (not Alignment) even be obtained by free/premium accounts?

If not, then this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to have less Rewards on newer story arcs... if it's a VIP Reward (of sorts).

I just wish "Story Arcs" rewards were in-line and competitive with other rewards for ALL so that they would become a viable option for teaming in an MMO.


 

Posted

Hell, I'm mostly just pissed off that:

A) Once you hit level 30, no more First Ward. It would have bee nice if someone had mentioned that First Ward was going to be a one-chance event. Of course they could try fixing Ouro so that Praetorian missions are included, but why fix broken content when you can pile on more broken content? Its really piss-poor planning on Paragon's part to include a storyline that you can easily outlevel by running the damn storyline, and then be completely screwed out of the right to play it. Why add content if you aren't going to let people play it?

B) Quick, count how many Seed teams you've seen in the past month. Wanna know how many have been on Virtue? I'll give you a hint: It's somewhere between zero and "What's a Seed?". Maybe if you didn't have to jump through hoops to get to the zone, people might actually know it exists and go there. There is nothing, nothing that points you to First Ward. The freakin' Egg Hunter badge is more common knowledge than First Ward.


The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)

Virtue Forever.

 

Posted

All the First Ward arcs are available through Ouro


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios View Post
All the First Ward arcs are available through Ouro
I just decided to take another look, somehow the missions had eluded my notice the first 2-3 times I looked. Possibly the burning rage at the terrible new content blinding me, I've been more than a little aggravated at this game's current direction.


The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)

Virtue Forever.

 

Posted

And lets not forget how villain-unfriendly the story arc is. It literally ignores you as a villain.


"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton View Post
And lets not forget how villain-unfriendly the story arc is. It literally ignores you as a villain.
I'm running through hem for the first time on a vigilante leaning hero, and that's pretty much the perfect alignment for the First Ward. But I can see the villain complaint. It's the same old "Oh, but you'll get more power, you like more power, don't you? Of course you do, now go save the world so you can get more power." Uh, no? My villlains want to be villains. Sure, power is nice, no question there, but... Can I just opt to point and laugh at the First Ward troubles instead? Then go blow up Boomtown again, or something.

I mean, I get why a villain would join up with Vanguard to fight the Rikti. For one, the Rikti started it (as far as any level 35 villain knows), and secondly, it's not un-villain like to be territorial. You bomb a villain's home, and you have a problem with that villain. But going somewhere completely different to save some people you don't know or care about? That had better pay really well.


Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton View Post
And lets not forget how villain-unfriendly the story arc is. It literally ignores you as a villain.
Til you get to the famous 'fridge' moment everyone kvetches about.



as for what would make First Ward more appealing... it just needs more content. The single zone arc is ok, but when you're done, that it. Nothing else to do in the place except badges and the Seed, which really isn't worth much to take out. The place could at least use a TF or other zone event. An abandoned lab wouldn't hurt either.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupaFreak View Post
So, why on Earth would I endorse these arcs that average roughly 3 Merits per hour when I can get:
You heard it here first, folks: CoH is all about grinding. People who play for fun can GTFO.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkuTenshiiZero View Post
I just decided to take another look, somehow the missions had eluded my notice the first 2-3 times I looked. Possibly the burning rage at the terrible new content blinding me, I've been more than a little aggravated at this game's current direction.
Would be nice if the game auto-exemplared all your contacts, so that you wouldn't have to worry about outleveling them.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
You heard it here first, folks: CoH is all about grinding. People who play for fun can GTFO.
He's got a point though - going through all 8 arcs on my Ill/Time Controller (Even Level, Bosses Enabled, fought most of the stuff) I got 5 levels - going from 22 to 27 (Experienced WAS in effect the entire time, BTW) from the 30 odd missions - despite enemies that were far more frustrating than other things I could be doing. Personally I found the story just went off the rails about the time you ran cerulean's arc to end, so I wasn't even satisfied from a lore perspective. Giving 2 merits is a cop-out because it's a placeholder value the Devs give it in beta, and then never change to a more appropriate value.


Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkuTenshiiZero View Post
the burning rage at the terrible new content
You're raging over something that isn't there


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
You heard it here first, folks: CoH is all about grinding. People who play for fun can GTFO.
Content is for levelling. If you don't get rewards from new content, you have to go back to grinding papers or tips to actually get your rewards. You see the problem?


Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
You're raging over something that isn't there
Agreed - calling the new Atlas and Mercy arcs "Content" is an insult to content.


Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
You heard it here first, folks: CoH is all about grinding. People who play for fun can GTFO.
/sarcasm

Sure seems that way anymore.

Note that I did mention the other elements I enjoyed, just expressed my unhappiness with those I didn't.

If it were flipped around the other way, I'd express my concerns there too.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague View Post
Agreed - calling the new Atlas and Mercy arcs "Content" is an insult to content.
Yes- they're too good just to be called content - they're great content.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Yes- they're too good just to be called content - they're great content.
Yes, I agree there's one thing red side needed - MORE LONGBOW.


Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague View Post
Yes, I agree there's one thing red side needed - MORE LONGBOW.
Longbow that you can blow up and drive out - it's more dynamic than before.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork