It's getting worse (new content)

Well, to be fair, dealing with common street thugs is the job of the police, and there is no reason to think the PPD can't handle it. Superheroes should be dealing with threats that the PPD, Freedom Corps, Longbow, and Vanguard can't handle on their own. It's like asking why the Avengers aren't always around helping Spiderman deal with Doc Oc. I mean, they all call the same city Home. The usual explanation is that you leave the Avengers to deal with threats nobody else can, and leave the street crime to the police and the FBI, non-superpowered international intrigue to the CIA, etc.

And by extension, a level 50 (+3) Incarnate should be busy keeping Tyrant from establishing a thousand year reich in Paragon City, leaving the up-and-coming level 20 heroes to handle factions like the Tsoo and the Sky Raiders. There is a kind of heirarchy of threats, along with heroes to deal with them, that the security level system has established in the game. Players can't be faulted for adhering to this "food chain of heroism" when it is exactly as the devs intended it.

And you completely missed the point (a whole ocean liner just sailed over you!)

To an NPC, it's not a game. 'Spawning' doesn't exist. There are no devs.

But some 'wishy washy' hero thinks he can step up and change the world, stomps his feet when he can't and cries when someone points and laughs at him to say he and his entourage could do better.

Frankly, that's what makes some of my villains tick. The heroes think they can save this world, the next, the universe, the multiverse and your muffins from getting gobbled by the dog. My villains curbstomp those heroes with reality because they don't even have to be 'evil' to ruin that little fairy tail.

In summary: Someone took offense to an NPC telling them they are lazy because they're not being 'heroic' enough. Some heroes don't give a damn what some NPC thinks, they do what they can to make what they can better in their viewpoint. End of story...that's why I killed him.

*clears throat and leans forward*

Yes.

In fact we've had group events where we do just that, even on our level 50s in a grey zone. My problem isn't that we can't save everyone, my problem is that since GR has launched the writers have just assumed we would be lazy and callous without any chance to prove them wrong.

Here's an example of a solution, add a temp contact, like the holiday ones, they give repeatable missions that send you to hinder arachnos moving into atlas. The catch is the enemies inside are grey, there are no badges and no real rewards, but depending on how many missions are run in a window of a few weeks it affects the story later. I'm not sure about anyone else's server but on ours he would be a -very- busy contact.

I know we can't solve every single problem but thats not my complaint, for every major problem they keep writing as if we would ignore obvious warnings, threats and horrors to the point where if this -was- a comic the JLA would sit in their base playing scrabble while aliens overran the world and only took action once 2/3rds of the population had eggs laid in their chests. I don't expect things to go 100% right but ever since GR things have gone 99% wrong and the plot blames it on us being lazy. And as a player I don't like the game pointing at me and saying, "This is all your fault because you did nothing even though we never actually gave you a chance to do anything! YOUR FAULT!" I completely expect that to be how they reintroduce galaxy city. "It's your fault that arachnos/the shivians turned it into hell on earth even though we didn't allow you into the zone until it reached this point!!!"

Personally, I just think that is how the times change.

Yes, there will be people praising you, looking up to you, thanking you for all your hard work even if you could not prevent all the problems you encounter...but just like the internet, there will be detractors. Although the real-life 'superheroes' probably aren't the best example, you have people that feel what they try to do or stand for is good and something an entire community should strive to do...but then you have the detractors saying they're crazy, they endanger lives, that they are immoral for trying to take action against domestic issues, or even that what they stand for or try to achieve is counter to what society should promote...that you should never attempt to intervene when you can make a difference because the risk of injury or death overrides all other motivation.

I just see it as 'realism' spun a tad broadly and explored in the game...you don't have to like it, but it's basically conflict to get your character to 'feel'. You can hang your head in shame, accept the statements that you're lazy and try harder. Or declare that you aren't like all those other heroes, that you try to do good and set the standard higher for those other lazy heroes to strive for. Or just play it as Thiery being a crazed criminal who doesn't know what he's talking about and should be locked away. Or that he's a 'threat' that you need to wash away so as to cleanse the city of future issues with that man. The only option I could think they might need to add is "You're right, Thiery! Heroes are lazy! We need to fix this!"

As for your idea, meh. Don't we have those security chief guys or whatever at the zone entrances? Why not use them? Have it so, every zone has like a 'meter' that goes down for every group of villains you apprehend. But as the meter goes down, fewer foes spawn in the zone. The only real way to push that meter down to 0 is to have coordinated teams of heroes scouring the streets, combing different areas since by the time the meter is low, 1 or 2 heroes just wouldn't be able to find enough villains to put a dent in that meter...

OR you can talk to a security chief who will point you to 'hot spots'. Basically, it'd be like safeguard missions, and when you talk to the security chief, he spawns a mass group of foes for you to fight somewhere on the map. You defeat them, go back to the security chief, he spawns another, rinse repeat.

When the meter is low/0, you probably won't see any crimes on the streets at all. When the meter is high/100, you'll see more criminal activity, more burning buildings, more dyne raves, etc. I'd imagine the meter would replenish in parts, so that getting crime down by 1/4 will keep it that way for the day or two (out-of-game) but if you're between 1/2 and 3/4, it will replenish by the minutes. The goal would be to get it down from 1/4 to 0 because it'd stay at 0 for a day or two. The only issue would be those that street sweep for xp. Well, you can talk to a security chief to spawn more foes, not to mention there are just plain too many means to get xp. AE, missions, radio, tips, find-a-contact, TF, Oro...if one has to street sweep, this just means they can make a difference.

If the PPD was smart, they would just send out teams of these security chiefs armed with squadrons of security drones, like the ones that guard City Hall or the tram stations, and just keep the streets clean that way. There wouldn't be a single mob causing mischief on the streets of any zone. This would free up PC superheroes to go confront the kinds of threats that those security drones simply can't handle.

Uh, wait. Why does Paragon City need superheroes, exactly?

You overestimate the effectiveness of the PPD (seriously, my villains laugh at them even when backed by a super on duty).

Or you underestimate the villains (apparently there are more villains than the cops can handle, otherwise there wouldn't be so many heroes).

Against NPC mobs? Really? Have you seen the effectiveness of those police drones?

Yes - they're good, but still not as effective as the Wentworth's instant death field. So if we're going to take vague metagame mechanics and turn them into lore interpretations, let's just sell the city to Wentworths and hire a market representative to put on every street corner.

There is much truth in what you say here.

I like being a noble hero.

I don't like being shoehorned into inaction or darkety dark deeds. As you say, I am not the Punisher.

I don't want to hear, "Well, Real Life isn't like that." In real life, I can't fire lightning bolts from my hands and incapacitate a huge group of people, either. Let me see if my superpowered self can find the way I want.

I am also not enamored of the presentation of Statesman and Ms. Liberty lately for a certainty.

Yes.

The first time I went to save someone from the green fire, I was greatly surprised at the power of the Satanic minions kindling it and almost was defeated. But I was not prepared for my reaction when the victim came back up to me and sobbed, "They were going to kill me!"

Melancton snuffs the green flames with people crying out for help. Every. Time.

Since I don't know Thiery, I cannot comment on their expectations. A blanket condemnation of all heroes as "lazy" would simply be yet another example of poor writing by the Devs if that has been explicitly stated.

Lol I hope you know you're commenting on writing you haven't read and therefore have no idea what you're talking about.

[Spoiler]

Aaron Thiery is an early contact in Atlas who you work with to fight against the Arachnos invasion going on. It's only after you risk your neck to track down a friend's wife who was kidnapped, save your friend who practically threw himself on the line to save his wife (and he has no powers, he's just a man), save them both and nearly destroy Arachnos' whole operation do you find out that the man you're working with, Thiery, actually organized the invasion himself. And he did it because other heroes, like the ones staging protests in the streets, weren't actively helping those in need.

Basically, Thiery thought that his invasion made Paragon *safer* by calling heroes to action.

So if you want to get technical before accusing someone of poor writing, there was no blanket statement, just hyperbole started by the poster you praise as saying 'there is much truth in what he said'. Thiery never accused all heroes of being lazy, he just tried calling them all to action to make his city safer. Crazy, yes, but what you accuse him of saying? Not particularly.

Is it bad writing? That isn't the point of my post, just that criticizing something you don't even know about is rather foolish.

You get the chance to prove every detractor wrong by dismantling the whole Arachnos operation, saving the hostages and not giving up on the justice system when you decide to arrest Thiery instead of killing him. In that sense, the revamped Atlas Park storyline is perhaps the most satisfying hero mission released since the Tip system came out.

Actually, that would be you. Gameplay and Story Segregation. Your entire argument is absurd. If Paragon City really had people getting mugged by superpowered thugs on every street corner 24/7 no one would live there. Those spawns are a concession to the fact that the game is an amusement park, not a simulation.

Furthermore, you are completely missing the point that Thierry doesn't have one. He is obviously insane and is portrayed as such. There isn't a response option that even remotely looks like "hang your head in shame and admit he's right"; they're all variations on "what a horse's patootie".

As for the street spawns, the best way to deal with them would be to remove them outside of hazard zones. They're a misfeature included to support an outmoded style of play from fantasy MMOs. However, if we really need an "in-universe" way to deal with them, just offer a series of badges for rescuing street crime victims. 15 minutes after that goes live you'll never see another one again.

Exactly.

2 Reward Merits for 45-60 minutes of play time (with reading) is so poor, I was beyond irritated.

That's 1/4 of earning a Random Large Inspiration or Single Origin Enhancement. 4 hours of casual play to earn one of these minimum rewards is ludicrous and if I had paid for that as Premium player, I'd be outraged.

I don't want to be too negative here and would like to add that whether or not the newer arcs are everyone's bag... I will admit that I do feel the effort to be more immersive with the action within new missions is improving.

Leo, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to convey. Chalk it up to bad writing on MY part.

Under what was laid out by you, there was no blanket statement and thus I have no complaint, predicated by my "if."

I try to laud the Devs rightly in the forums when I like something. I have made specific complaints about specific aspects of the writing in other places. My comments about this particular aspect were both predicated by the fact I did not know who "Thiery" was and conditional. Since the "lazy" bit was Thiery's opinion and not a blanket statement by the Devs, no harm no foul by them.

You have some very good insights!

Now, if CoX were to be designed today, with a new engine, unencumbered by the limitations of the current 10-year old engine, would it still be designed like an amusement park rather than a simulation? The amusement park nature of the game is where it completely fails as an immersive experience for me, and while I don't want it to be as mundane in its simulational goals as The Sims, I would still prefer that the world actually make sense and not resort to so many metagame gimmicks that we are expected to just ignore or accept as the price for having a "fun little game". My instincts say that most if not all the metagame cheats and tropes could be replaced with stuff that maintains logical plausibility through and through, and that not making an MMO that way is, well, just weak game design. Unfortunately, I don't have millions in seed venture capital at my disposal to prove it.

And that isn't even the main point I was trying to get across. You don't have to be a pompous 'holier than though', tvtropes linking concept magi to realize there is a lot of wrong-doing in Paragon and the world. This stuff isn't isolated to just this one city (the Rikti invaded *the world*, not one city), it' just a nexus of activity. From government organizations created and centralized in Paragon, to world affecting technological megacorporations being stationed within the city. Lots of stuff is *in* Paragon City, but that doesn't make the rest of the world any safer, especially when you consider there is probably a higher concentration of powered heroes in this city vs around the world.

Yes, the various muggings in the street is a comical hyperbole of the actual situation of the in-game world, but there are bad things going on *ALL THE TIME* even if you don't see it right in front of you. Hell, in *real life*, there are robberies, r*pe, killings, assaults, and so on happening in any city of your choosing *every SECOND* that slips through the cracks of the legal enforcement system. That isn't some amusement park ideology, it's *reality*, kid. Now add aliens, corrupt scientists, MAGIC!, para-military groups, monsters/demons, alternate dimensions, high-technology, mutants and so on to that mix, and the world spirals out of control.

It's not particularly about the dozens of muggings you see going on in tandem, but the realities they represent.

You play that option, dopey. While the 'options' there are binary, you can always change the interpretation of your choice. There's no 'Engulfed by rage at the thought of the many lives sacrificed and threatened, all for some idiotic wake up call, you lash out and kills the man' choice, but that's the one I choose. He didn't even realize what he'd done (would be nice if, in later game, that choice comes back to haunt you, either with Thiery doing something crazy again because you didn't take care of him, or a new and more dangerous lunatic takes up his call who was brought about by your immoral choice of killing that man) so when asked, he basically says he doesn't remember.

Isn't this exactly the sort of thing that can happen in that new game with lightsabers? You can kill NPCs and quest-givers, actions that shape the gameplay experience you have later down the line.

Why are you irritated? Aren't you supposed to be doing new content because it's new, and not because of the reward it gives (or doesn't)?

I don't think people that pay to unlock First Ward are going to care much about how many merits they're earning. They can still do other things that earn merits way more efficiently if that's their endgame.

Besides, merits are supposed to be based more on the difficulty level of the task, not so much on how long it takes to do the task. These arcs aren't that hard, particularly for ATs and builds that can handle the psi powers most of these enemies can throw at you.

Merits ARE supposed to be based on how long the task takes, according to actual dev statements from back when they were implemented. If they're now going by difficulty instead, FW should give waaaaaaay more than clearing out a few cargo ships full of Council pushovers for Stephanie Peebles.

Okay, so you'd be fine if all rewards were adjusted downwards so it would take 10 hours of gameplay to purchase a random roll? (20 Merits) There's 7 arcs for First Ward with 2 Reward Merits each. Casually playing them and reading, you're looking at about 7 hours for 14 Merits. You'd be happy if the rest of the game and future content was reduced to that?


Okay, so in that manner... we can take all the story text and cut-scenes away from anything that has good rewards? I mean... what's good for the goose is good for the gander...

Oh, so the Rewards weren't adjusted downwards for Katie Hanon Task Force and Eden Trial because people were blowing through them in 15 minutes based on data logs? They were adjusted downwards because people complained they were easy?

I really don't know how to comment to this. It almost sounds like an endorsement for mandatory researching the internet for which archetype and powersets to have when playing a story arc.

Accepting these rewards as reasonable is a slap in the face to me.

To me, it's the equivilant of the following as a basis of a story arc:

Contact: Go fight Recluse.
Accept: K
Contact: Go!

Lord Recluse: Hi.

This is where all potentially serious threads end

Coolio. Then I can add this as my thoughts on the issues I have?