"I'm soloing" ... "ur selfish"
By
80sBaby,
Posted on: 2011-12-28 01:30 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
It is like, my opinion, man, but that is what I was trying to express here even though I clearly could have put it slightly better. Or is that overstating it?
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There's a few misapprehensions here. You're assuming that it will in fact improve our experience. This is not guaranteed. You're neglecting the fact that there are potential negative impacts to our experience, that they may in fact be significant, and that the knowledge of those potential negative impacts can outweigh the potential positive.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
I solo most of the time too, Void, but that's the thing. There's a difference between soloing a lot and shutting out the outside world. One of the things I suppose I should have brought up sooner instead of getting into a giant slap fight is that one of the advantages of making yourself available for pugs and random sidekick requests is that you're improving two people's experiences at once. The person who was having no luck finding a team, and probably your own as well. It seems to me that being as open to random teaming as possible is a good thing to do in a game of this... seniority in the market.
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Note that we are still talking about UNSOLICITED attempts at teaming. We still team, as mentioned before. We still join pugs. But people don't get to impose themselves on us, which you seem to think is some kind of right.
'Being available' to randoms is not helpful to everyone. It can be of no value, it can be an inconvenience, and for some of us it can even be hurtful.
Or are you telling me that some unknown stranger's desire to join a team for a few minutes -- without caring who is on it -- trumps my desire to not have an unpleasant experience? That just because one person -- who has plenty of other people to potentially team with -- cannot team with ME when the stars align and I'm visible in their presence is going to somehow ruin their experience more than mine would be if I'd accepted, even though they have an entire other game of people to connect with?
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
The difference is that if you take steps to completely preclude any contact from strangers, you'll never have to reevaluate that situation. You are depriving yourself of potential positive experience in one broad stroke.
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Simply because I sometimes choose to not do so does not mean I never do so. You are being presumptuous.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
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Except that nobody here has done anything of the sort. You are equating "random invites/requests for invites" with "the world." Do you not see the problem there?|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
I solo most of the time too, Void, but that's the thing. There's a difference between soloing a lot and shutting out the outside world.
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| The person who was having no luck finding a team, and probably your own as well. |
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| The difference is that if you take steps to completely preclude any contact from strangers, you'll never have to reevaluate that situation. You are depriving yourself of potential positive experience in one broad stroke. |
I think somehow I'll survive.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
Void, I'm guessing then that you're not one of the people who never leaves /hide.
Bosstone, unfortunately for a new VIP today the search function essentially is "the world" as far as CoH is concerned. Most of us are probably members of a dozen or two global channels, the newbie is not. She may not even know the global chat system exists, or have ever visited the official forum. Most people in this thread were not advocating opting out of the most basic in-game tool for just that kind of player to have any access to teams at all, but a few were.
I'm not sure if moving on from "It's for your own mental health, you antisocial weirdos!" to "The future of the game depends on you accepting random invites, OMG won't someone think of the newbies!" is much of an improvement, but at least it's different. So, sure, run with that one for a while.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Damn, too many quotes for multiquote to handle. Good work, everyone.
A perfectly reasonable answer. The sort of answer that leads me to believe some of you may be displaying signs of Grumpy Gus disorder. You're getting mad about the idea not of someone impinging on your soloing, but about the idea that they might want to. And you're not the only one. Yeah, absolutely. I completely understand how easy it is to play CoH while distracted or otherwise unsuited for normal team play. By all means solo away in this situation and refuse anyone's sultry advances. That doesn't explain the posters who have been talking about how they use /hide so they never have to worry about anyone defiling their perfect little world. I never said you should give in to pestering, clearly pestering is a bad policy in general. I take issue with this notion of the sanctity of solitude in a video game. That's all I'm saying. Not once did I say everyone must always accept every request to team. I was simply disturbed by the vehemence of the anti-teaming sentiment in this thread. And wouldn't you know it, it got worse before it's gotten better. Yes. Brilliant parody that concisely sums up everything I said. Outstanding work. Have you ever spoken with someone who seemed to get super defensive all of a sudden and it just made you raise an eyebrow internally? Another excellent example. The mission is your home, and the person asking to join you is a a burly man wearing only a trench coat. Terrifying stuff. Did you guys know there's a button you can press to remove someone from a team you're leading if you take exception to their behavior? |
My smiley at the end of my post was meantbto convey that I was joking, sorry if it didn't come over clearly. I'm perfectly aware that it's a silly analogy. The guy suggesting I team up anyway even if I don't want to was not joking, though, it looked like to me.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Man, are you rude.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Void, I'm guessing then that you're not one of the people who never leaves /hide.
Bosstone, unfortunately for a new VIP today the search function essentially is "the world" as far as CoH is concerned. Most of us are probably members of a dozen or two global channels, the newbie is not. She may not even know the global chat system exists, or have ever visited the official forum. Most people in this thread were not advocating opting out of the most basic in-game tool for just that kind of player to have any access to teams at all, but a few were. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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But notice how he's managed to not only derail a perfectly fine thread, but also have all the attention directed toward him.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Man, are you rude.
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I've had a number friends say that I'm one of the nicest people they know on the game. I don't know about that, but I try very, very hard to be considerate and assume the best about a player, unless I find out otherwise. And if I find out otherwise, I just go somewhere else. It's so easy to take offense at things, and life it just too short, people have their own troubles, and the game is somewhere to forget about troubles for awhile, and go have some fun.
That said, I'm stunned when people ask to join my "team," when I have not broadcast, put up a flag, or otherwise indicated I'm looking to team with others. Unless I'm standing next to an SSA contact, or something (and even then it's a bit pushy), it's just not an okay thing to do.
If someone wants to aggressively search for a team, by all means, great! GO START ONE!
Then you could invite me, if you were so inclined. THAT is polite (unless a blind invite). I will definitely send a polite reply. But if you're trying to invite yourself along, I won't respond. It's like not answering junk mail.
If a stranger were to ask for help on a tricky mission, or "touch 2 glowies at once" or something, that's entirely different, and I'd be happy to help if I could.
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Welp, I never said it was for anyone's mental health, I did say they were depriving themselves of positive experiences and that that is a negative thing. Not sure how the second track is incompatible with the first other than being less controversial, which you'd think would be a good thing?|
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
I'm not sure if moving on from "It's for your own mental health, you antisocial weirdos!" to "The future of the game depends on you accepting random invites, OMG won't someone think of the newbies!" is much of an improvement, but at least it's different. So, sure, run with that one for a while.
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Sorry I deflated your dogpile, Coyote, I'll try harder in the future to wither under your incisive remarks.
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If you're any example of what we have in store for us if we accept blind invites, then I think we have differing definitions of "a positive experience".
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Welp, I never said it was for anyone's mental health, I did say they were depriving themselves of positive experiences and that that is a negative thing.
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The part I don't get is if you don't understand that I'm the one accepting the blind team requests, or if you think you're really sticking it to me by pretending that you don't.
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To dogpile implies that we were conspiring together against you (paranoid, much?).|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Sorry I deflated your dogpile, Coyote, I'll try harder in the future to wither under your incisive remarks.
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What part of "we're soloists" did you not understand?
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Help channel. Broadcast channel. Players who flag themselves Helper (which is where newbies SHOULD be looking first). SGs are always recruiting in Atlas. The DFB exists to give them their first taste at teaming, too.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Void, I'm guessing then that you're not one of the people who never leaves /hide.
Bosstone, unfortunately for a new VIP today the search function essentially is "the world" as far as CoH is concerned. Most of us are probably members of a dozen or two global channels, the newbie is not. She may not even know the global chat system exists, or have ever visited the official forum. Most people in this thread were not advocating opting out of the most basic in-game tool for just that kind of player to have any access to teams at all, but a few were. |
Few people enter an MMO not knowing anyone, either. They usually have friends or are quick at making them.
And heck, if it were a new player asking for help on something tricky, I might actually agree with you; a 'sorry, go away' is a turnoff when you're trying to get some honest help. But someone asking just to tag along on your team, as opposed to looking for players for their own team, is looking for a free ride more often than not. Why subject oneself to it?
All of that is irrelevant, though. Bottom line is that if you try to tell people they shouldn't be allowed to choose how they play the game, which is what you're doing when you chastise them for not accepting a random invite, then you're just going to get laughed at, and rightly so.
I suggest your next post be about how players not helping out those poor lost souls is actually a form of griefing. It would be in the same spirit as your previous posts and would be entertaining as well.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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So much for the idea that your change in tactics was a step towards contrition.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Welp, I never said it was for anyone's mental health, I did say they were depriving themselves of positive experiences and that that is a negative thing. Not sure how the second track is incompatible with the first other than being less controversial, which you'd think would be a good thing?
Sorry I deflated your dogpile, Coyote, I'll try harder in the future to wither under your incisive remarks. |
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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Someone could suggest you follow your own advice to try a new thing by puttingbyourself on hide and soloingbexclusively for a month. It probably wouldn't harm you materially or otherwise, but you might very well simply not have much fun, since you clearly like to team. Good for you.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Surely it's more reasonable to try new things on occasion than it is to simply dig yourself into a bunker and assume the war's still going on years later? What exactly are you putting on the line by inviting some random guy to join you? As I said, I do it all the time and as far as I know it has never caused me any harm, material or otherwise. Compare that to putting yourself on /hide so nobody will ever be able to send you an invite or tell. How is that going to improve your experience in the game? Again, we're all free to do whatever weirdo things we want, obviously, but barricading your door and cutting your phone line so that nobody can break into your house and change your TV stations... uhhhh, sure. That's a reasonable position, then?
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Some people don't. Advising them to 'try it, you might like it!' is likely to get the same reaction I had from a gf when I suggested we try doing something saucy in an uncomfortable place.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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This is re: Bosstone:
Telling people how to play the game is the foundation of this forum as you are probably aware.
I disagree that finding teams is a trivial matter. Broadcast can work, help channel can work on some servers (not on Virtue, let me tell you!), but the devs did revamp the search function recently for a reason. They specifically made it possible to see someone who was solo on a mission. I don't know about you but that was the point where I started getting way more requests to join than I ever had before. It was expressly designed to work this way, and it seems to work pretty well. That's part of why it bothers me when people revel in avoiding the system.
Fine, you're right, it isn't that big of a deal, and it wasn't worth this big of a to-do. I maintain that if each of you went out and invited some hapless lowbie with only a single star of veterancy to their name when you logged on this evening, you'd have a surprisingly good time showing them the ropes.
"Can anyone help me with X?" in broadcast, help, or a custom channel is one thing.
A blind invite or whisper from a stranger is another. First, it means I forgot to /hideall again. Second, it means I really don't want to help the pushy person with whatever it is they are having problems with.
If I wanted to form a team I'd have broadcasted that fact myself. If I wanted to be a on a team I'd have sent a response to their broadcast myself. If I wanted the responsibility of helping everyone I'd have flagged myself as a Helper.
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I'm staggered. I truly am. I think I have to revisit that post of mine that judged your lack of connection to reality. I meant it as a pointed joke, but you've given me strong evidence to the contrary.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
This is re: Bosstone:
Telling people how to play the game is the foundation of this forum as you are probably aware. |
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| I disagree that finding teams is a trivial matter. Broadcast can work, help channel can work on some servers (not on Virtue, let me tell you!), but the devs did revamp the search function recently for a reason. They specifically made it possible to see someone who was solo on a mission. I don't know about you but that was the point where I started getting way more requests to join than I ever had before. It was expressly designed to work this way, and it seems to work pretty well. That's part of why it bothers me when people revel in avoiding the system. |
If you enjoy teaming, and you enjoy teaming with random people using the search function, do you really think you'd have fun teaming with the kind of people who would rather set themselves on /hide and decline all invitations?
I'm happy to let people opt out of an activity, because that means they aren't interested in the activity for one reason or another and thus if they participated they probably wouldn't be having fun.
I wish everyone knew about /hide. That means that the people you see in the search box want to be seen, which means that while there may be fewer players visible, the chance of finding a team among the visible players would be much, much higher.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
Unless I'm doing something (TF or trial) that actually requires teaming I'm usually soloing. That way I can play along at my own pace, get up and go do something else as the need arises, etc.
If you ask "can I join your team" or "wanna team up" I'm probably gonna just say no thanks unless it's someone I know. I just don't see the point of teaming for the sake of teaming (it's my personality folks, sorry.)
If I'm asked something along the lines of "Can you help me kill Nosferatu?" then I'm fairly likely to go and help if I'm able to. Teaming in order to accomplish specific goals is a different matter entirely and I'm usually willing to help people over rough patches.
If I get a blind invite, I just decline. If I get a second blind invite without a tell then it's ignore list time cause at that point you're interfering with my playing by making a little box pop up without even asking.
I can also add that only when I'm playing a tank do people actually seem to get angry at me for turning down invites.
_________
@Inquisitor
I sort of wish CoH had a "public group" mechanism where you can set a flag such that anyone can just auto-join your group. I think a lot of people would use it.
I tend not to group much, especially with people I don't know. I'm autistic; I find social interaction stressful, period. I also sometimes find it fun, and it's less stressful with people I know, but it's always stressful, so a lot of the time I'm not up for it. I generally let people know that I'm doing something else (since usually I'm just checking my WW anyway).
That said.
I have a grav/storm troller, named Helpy McHelperson. His costume is colored like a merit reward vendor's costume. And if he gets a blind invite? Yeah, I go. And I help. My battle cry is "I'm helping!"
If I'm feeling especially nice I warn people that the character is a Concept Build. Which he is; I originally thought I was going to name him Captain Knockback, but Helpy McHelperson was funnier.
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Well, I'd say that only the rude people on these forums believe that's true. I know there's several such people on these forums. Are you saying you're one of them?|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Telling people how to play the game is the foundation of this forum as you are probably aware.
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| I disagree that finding teams is a trivial matter. Broadcast can work, help channel can work on some servers (not on Virtue, let me tell you!), |
Waaaaait....
You're on Virtue?!?!?!?!?
**Remainder of reply not found!**
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Unless those experiences wouldn't be positive for them. Which they might know.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Welp, I never said it was for anyone's mental health, I did say they were depriving themselves of positive experiences and that that is a negative thing.
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My spouse used to play MMOs more, group a bit with a couple of friends. We all knew that Beloved Spouse did not enjoy grouping with strangers. So one time, this guy who knows us from livejournal or something is grouped with us, and starts inviting people to the team randomly. Why? Because "if you try grouping with random strangers, maybe you'll learn to like it!"
I think my spouse next logged into an MMO about 3-6 months later. I don't think we've talked to that person at all in the intervening years.
Pushing people to do things they do not like is not actually a way to create positive experiences. Thing is, even if an experience could otherwise be positive, being pushed into it makes it negative. (If you can't think of the obvious example of a highly positive experience which people uniformly regard as highly negative when coerced, which I am not naming to avoid making extra work for the mods, I am not sure what to suggest.)
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I did this about two months ago for some poor player who was stuck at that part in the Incarnate intro arc where you have defeat Hero 1 and whats-his-name. I also listen to broadcast and such... well, mostly so I can see others PST requests when they start forming iTrials. LOL
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Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
If I'm asked something along the lines of "Can you help me kill Nosferatu?" then I'm fairly likely to go and help if I'm able to. Teaming in order to accomplish specific goals is a different matter entirely and I'm usually willing to help people over rough patches.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.