Wonder what the devs regret?
By
Aneko,
Posted on: 2011-12-14 18:03 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I imagine that even if they do regret AE or PvP, for various reasons they wouldn't be able to publicly say so.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
I look at AE differently... If people are going to quit over AE babies... that is their choice. These supposed AE babies had a short half-life and imo have been completely been blown WAY out of proportion. I have seen incompetent players with hundreds of badges..including many of the vet/yearly badges. Teamed with an emp defender with over 1,000+ badges... who thought their role on a BAF was to auto follow the tanker with auto heal aura on (dying multiple times and sometimes just laying there for 30-60 seconds)... So ya see incompetent players can come in MANY forms.
If people choose/chose to quit because of a perceived small minority of players... their loss imo.
Back on topic:
1. Probably pvp altogether...if not then the changes made in issue 13.
2. The AE system, because of how convoluted it is...how horrible it is to search etc etc. the dead arcs that don't get cleaned up etc....
3. ED and not putting IOs out at the same time...to show why ED was implemented.
4. Creating SOO many hero zones...thus effectively creating quite a few dead zones (I look at you Boomtown, Eden, Crey's Folly)... I can go to those three zones on any given day/time and see a MAX of 5-6 people (usually just me hehehe) UNLESS the WTF happens to be there that week.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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That's not surprising for hazard zones.
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Creating SOO many hero zones...thus effectively creating quite a few dead zones (I look at you Boomtown, Eden, Crey's Folly)... I can go to those three zones on any given day/time and see a MAX of 5-6 people (usually just me hehehe) UNLESS the WTF happens to be there that week.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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To be fair, it's gone in cycles of farm central to ghost town a couple of times as new ways of exploiting it are found. Back in its "new shiny" days though, anyone could get some plays, but that's pretty unlikely to happen now without adverting your arc around.|
Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
The AE buildings have gone from thriving farm central to ghost towns over the course of that program. Despite a rare few like Captain-Electric, most players who aren't farming don't bother with the AE due to the lack of rewards compared to regular content.
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I agree with what Eva said, AE isn't something you can just add-in and forget but sadly the devs seem to have stopped doing much with it at all (even base building is getting more love these days), unless time spent fixing exploits counts (and it might).
AE itself really should have gone further and could still be pushed further if they wanted to. They could if nothing else could even try and make what rewards it can offer - good stories - easier to get, such as by letting a whole team see the text. All these and more have been gone over many times on those forums.
Still, thinking something they haven't spent much time on lately must be a regret means the game is filled with them as they're always leaving something in the dust to rush after the new shiny - unless it's end-game content, they're going to make enough of that stuff to choke a whole herd of horses. Maybe they regret having tried to interest us in anything but end-game raids, or maybe they regret having had to resort to them?
Bases
More specifically, intertwining PvP code with bases in such a manner as to make it nigh impossible to work with.
Should have made separate options; PvP and non-PvP.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
I think the AE regret would be more down to promoting levelling from 1-50 in it.
http://www.scene-and-heard.com/cov/covsig.jpg
- So many servers
- Different server lists at launch
- Different forums at launch
- i13 PvP changes
- The way they handled ED
- i15
- The time right after AE launched that there was multiple downtimes almost constantly to nerf it.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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Except that wasn't so fun for the other people. |
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
Original PvP was fun. I used to spend hours and hours on my stalker in Warburg and RV.
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I assume you mean back before they implemented the anti-one shot rule?
Yeah, that sucked for anyone who wasn't a stalker. Instantly killed by a guy you couldn't see until he killed you? What brain trust thought that would be fun for anyone but the one doing the killing?
The way PvP was shoehorned into the game is probably a pretty major regret for the dev team. If the game had been designed with it in mind, maybe it wouldn't have been so unbalanced. Just the way a lot of the powers work alone makes it aggravating. Getting caught by Telekinesis on a scrapper or tank while not having 3 Breakfrees on me was one of the most aggravating things in the entire game for me. You were held for as long as the person holding you had endurance, or until you were dead (almost always the latter).
I don't think PvP itself is regretted, just the way it was crammed into the game as an afterthought. Though they did save themselves by not allowing open world PvP. Given this game's player's general attitude toward PvP, open world PvP probably would have been the death blow 5 years ago and we wouldn't be having this discussion now.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
They probably wish that they'd implemented diminishing returns on enhancements from the start.
I also think (or hope) they regret the decision to split the player base between two (now three) separate and, until recently, exclusive locations.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
I suspect they regret having to cheat to make missions work. I know I do
Thelonious Monk
i13
Marketing, Marketing, and Marketing - I know its not under their control but still.
I think they might regret creating villains. One of the ATs is constantly causing problems and requires special attention, one is barely used, and one is beloved of farmers. That leaves two ATs that are generally nicely balanced and people don't either complain about or make other ATs obsolete. Villains splits the playerbase. It requires twice as much content, some of which some players are never going to see. Every time co-op content is introduced, villain players complain. There are more arcs redside that people dislike than there are arcs they like.
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It doesn't. It causes collateral damage to non-exploitative, non-farm arcs that is never addressed or even acknowledged by the dev team. The one time it was addressed the fix came in six months after the fact, hidden under a whole pile of new shinies. Most people didn't even know it was there.
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Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5
I agree with what Eva said, AE isn't something you can just add-in and forget but sadly the devs seem to have stopped doing much with it at all (even base building is getting more love these days), unless time spent fixing exploits counts (and it might).
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Okay, can't tell from your forum date. But it really sounds like you weren't here during the worst of it.|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
I look at AE differently... If people are going to quit over AE babies... that is their choice. These supposed AE babies had a short half-life and imo have been completely been blown WAY out of proportion.
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For the first time that I could remember, Portal Court was DEVOID OF PLAYERS begging Battle Maiden farms.
And several instances of AP and Cap were packed with people looking for any PL farm they could find. What we have now is a mere shadow of how bad it was originally.
Honestly, my biggest regret is that the devs promised you could use AE as a leveling path. In retrospect, they really shouldn't have. If someone wants to use AE to farm for Inf? BFD! But the whole 1-50 in a couple hours thing. While interesting, is ultimately detrimental to the game as a whole.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Granting forum access to customers with entitlement issues.|
Originally Posted by Rikis
Every MMO's dev team has something they regret implementing.
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At least one person has documented their journey from 1-50 playing arcs that aren't farms. My 1-50 in AE toon is level 44, and would be higher if I wasn't easily distracted by shiny objects and determined to roll ALL the tickets and get maximum inf out of the results.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Honestly, my biggest regret is that the devs promised you could use AE as a leveling path. In retrospect, they really shouldn't have. If someone wants to use AE to farm for Inf? BFD! But the whole 1-50 in a couple hours thing. While interesting, is ultimately detrimental to the game as a whole.
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It is a viable means of levelling. Certainly not the fastest if you're not farming, and a bit slower than standard content, but having new content to level with is a draw for some people. From level 1-5 for me it's either AE or street sweeping, and has been since AE was introduced. Lowbie content gets very repetitive even for someone like me who doesn't alt nearly as much as some people, and considering how many posts we've seen over the years in the AE forums asking for arcs that are appropriate for lowbies, I don't think I'm the only person using it to bypass standard lowbie content.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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This is a very important point. The problem with ED wasn't that it happened at all but that it happened -after- the game had been around for a few years. Had the Devs worked this into the system from Day One no one would have ever known the difference in the first place.|
Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
They probably wish that they'd implemented diminishing returns on enhancements from the start.
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ED was a necessary evil which allowed the game to introduce IO sets (and later the Incarnate system) in a balanced way.
Without ED these future additions would have never been possible.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
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I actually prefer Praetoria to having to endure what they've done to the starting zones of Atlas and Mercy, not to mention the "We've made the tutorial even easier, you only have to kill 2 Shivans now!" Cripes, I mean, easier? Even an inanimate object could do the tutorial now. I learnt more from killing Infected and breaking out of the Zig.|
Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
3) Praetoria 1-20, who the hells bothers with it anymore now that you can select your starting point as hero or villain for any class without needed to go through Praetoria. Now it set up a lot of stuff later on so...I doubt this is a regret from the devs really.
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I think they probably regret not giving us player housing
Help Dirk Knightly the freelance detective solve a case in Arc ID:368097
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I understand where you're coming from. My basic point is that if speed-leveling just plain wasn't possible, then AE might not have needed some of the screwy nerfs that had to be implemented.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
At least one person has documented their journey from 1-50 playing arcs that aren't farms. My 1-50 in AE toon is level 44, and would be higher if I wasn't easily distracted by shiny objects and determined to roll ALL the tickets and get maximum inf out of the results.
It is a viable means of levelling. Certainly not the fastest if you're not farming, and a bit slower than standard content, but having new content to level with is a draw for some people. From level 1-5 for me it's either AE or street sweeping, and has been since AE was introduced. Lowbie content gets very repetitive even for someone like me who doesn't alt nearly as much as some people, and considering how many posts we've seen over the years in the AE forums asking for arcs that are appropriate for lowbies, I don't think I'm the only person using it to bypass standard lowbie content. |
Unfortunately with the per-enemy experience system (and the various ways to game it), reducing XP to a steady stream, regardless of enemy numbers or types or powers is pretty much impossible without major rewrites to the system.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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True enough, no doubt every MMO company out there sometimes wish they could burn the idea of forums to the ground. But they're also too useful to not use :P. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Granting forum access to customers with entitlement issues.
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Originally Posted by Impish Kat
Bases
More specifically, intertwining PvP code with bases in such a manner as to make it nigh impossible to work with. Should have made separate options; PvP and non-PvP. . |
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Originally Posted by Dark_Respite
I've asked the devs this question before at HeroCon and the Plummit.
Yes, the Arena/Gladiator concept was one of them. Several, however, said that what they regretted, they couldn't actually discuss (Hegner even says he's sworn to silence about SOMETHING or another). Michelle aka Samuraiko/Dark_Respite |
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Originally Posted by Lothic
This is a very important point. The problem with ED wasn't that it happened at all but that it happened -after- the game had been around for a few years. Had the Devs worked this into the system from Day One no one would have ever known the difference in the first place.
ED was a necessary evil which allowed the game to introduce IO sets (and later the Incarnate system) in a balanced way. Without ED these future additions would have never been possible. |
I kind of regret having that second piece of pie.
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
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I would have thought it was that mystery meat sandwich in the frig.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I kind of regret having that second piece of pie.
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*pokes Zwill in his tummy*
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I kind of regret having that second piece of pie.
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You would think that tutorials would be to teach you how to play the game, but in fact most players see tutorials as an obstacle to playing the game.|
Originally Posted by Kallandra
I actually prefer Praetoria to having to endure what they've done to the starting zones of Atlas and Mercy, not to mention the "We've made the tutorial even easier, you only have to kill 2 Shivans now!" Cripes, I mean, easier? Even an inanimate object could do the tutorial now. I learnt more from killing Infected and breaking out of the Zig.
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so you need to provide the shortest possible tutorial so that people can play the game but not be driven off by being taught something.
the tutorial is probably the hardest thing to make for a game.
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What kind of pie was it?|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I kind of regret having that second piece of pie.
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Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Dark_Respite's Farewell Video: "One Last Day"
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
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THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
two things on buffs:
buffs stack rather than being multiplicative (i.e. 50% res + 50% res is 100% res instead of 75% res). This makes buffs impossible to balance. A 5% def buff is very weak, but 8 players giving it out makes a 40% buff which is almost game breaking.
allowing all AT's to get 45% Def buff. They limited Res but not Def, so any character can tank with the right buffs and IO's.