Why 3 slot anything with 3 recharge enhancements???
People 3 slot Hasten because shaving even 2 to 5s from its recharge time can be worth it.
Some of us prefer to look at the actual number, you know, the seconds you gain from the third slot in powers like Hasten or the damage difference in a power damage capped instead of just thinking 'green is good'.
If you wanna make some things perma you have to go 'red' sometimes.
Edit: why's this in the Tanker forums?
Actually, most people here are aware of the effects of ED, and there are no "false readings", since both the pre-ED and post-ED values are shown when you hover over a power. Deus_Otiosus is right - there are times when, even bumped up against the ED ceiling, it's worth it to the specific player or build to squeeze out a few more percentage points.
That said, enhancement booster's are pretty valuable for this specific purpose. For example, bumping level 50 recharge IO's to +5 will spare you an extra slot in a power like Hasten while giving you about the same performance as three +3 SO's.
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This.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
People 3 slot Hasten because shaving even 2 to 5s from its recharge time can be worth it.
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Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Plus, not everyone is at level 50 enhancements.
Oh look.
He's giving advice to people who know the game better.
We know exactly what we are doing. That 6 seconds I gain on Hasten by putting a 3rd slot in it is the difference between Perma Dull Pain, and NOT Perma Dull Pain.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I value your intent, sometimes I 3 slot haste and sometimes I 2 slot it, it depends really but I always try to take slots from powers where I can. Sometimes 3 looks worth it compared to the alternatives. Builds should be more about reading all the figures than blindly doing something out of habit or looking at the pretty pictures.
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Originally Posted by Helluva_Goon
I've noticed when looking at mostly everyone's build posted on this thread, it seems as if no-one knows that slotting more than 2 slots/recharge enhancements on Hasten, Rage and so forth is overkill. Any power that indicates buffed numbers from enhancements in "Red" will give a false reading on the actual numbers because of ED. Its also a waste of a slot that can be used eslewhere. For an example, two slots in Hasten with recharging enhancements will highlight in "Green", meaning that this is good, and if a buffed power is highlighted in yellow, that means you are not too far from the accurate mark on Mids.
Just sharing great info. |
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Do you still need 3 slots in Hasten to perma dp if you have +33% alpha?
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Oh look.
He's giving advice to people who know the game better. We know exactly what we are doing. That 6 seconds I gain on Hasten by putting a 3rd slot in it is the difference between Perma Dull Pain, and NOT Perma Dull Pain. |
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Depends on the rest of your build and how much other global recharge you have. The Alpha can replace a slot, though.|
Originally Posted by Dz131
Do you still need 3 slots in Hasten to perma dp if you have +33% alpha?
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If it makes the OP happy, my Earth/Time troller has perma Hasten with just the base slot. >.>
SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
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One other thing, feel free to point out some of these builds out by links cos we could be lackadaisical at a times.
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Originally Posted by Helluva_Goon
I've noticed when looking at mostly everyone's build posted on this thread, it seems as if no-one knows that slotting more than 2 slots/recharge enhancements on Hasten, Rage and so forth is overkill. Any power that indicates buffed numbers from enhancements in "Red" will give a false reading on the actual numbers because of ED. Its also a waste of a slot that can be used eslewhere. For an example, two slots in Hasten with recharging enhancements will highlight in "Green", meaning that this is good, and if a buffed power is highlighted in yellow, that means you are not too far from the accurate mark on Mids.
Just sharing great info. |
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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hmm... Should I laugh, mock or scoff? Tough call.|
Originally Posted by Helluva_Goon
I've noticed when looking at mostly everyone's build posted on this thread, it seems as if no-one knows that slotting more than 2 slots/recharge enhancements on Hasten, Rage and so forth is overkill.
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I'll take the high road and explain that my calculations (i.e. FACTS) contradict your assertion.
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| Just sharing my cluelessness. |
(Couldn't resist some snark. His post was just too ridiculous.)
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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More slots in something is always better, whether its 20% 5% or .1% If someone wants to place their emphasis on recharge/lack of down time between attacks, powers, or whatever, then they are more than justfied in putting that third, fourth, even fifth slot in even though the values are being cut by ED.|
Originally Posted by Helluva_Goon
I've noticed when looking at mostly everyone's build posted on this thread, it seems as if no-one knows that slotting more than 2 slots/recharge enhancements on Hasten, Rage and so forth is overkill. Any power that indicates buffed numbers from enhancements in "Red" will give a false reading on the actual numbers because of ED. Its also a waste of a slot that can be used eslewhere. For an example, two slots in Hasten with recharging enhancements will highlight in "Green", meaning that this is good, and if a buffed power is highlighted in yellow, that means you are not too far from the accurate mark on Mids.
Just sharing great info. |
Recharge is only one place we see this, things like defense and damage resistance can be at times overslotted as well to reach certain goals or caps that players have for builds.
Do people know that rather than getting 42.4% out of that third slot into hasten they only get 28.1%? Most people who take the time for mids builds I would assume understand what it means to see a number in red, and what the value beside it means. Not all, sure, but I'd guess most know.
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This is the cutest post. It's like when your five year old tries to give you advice on what car to buy.
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Originally Posted by Helluva_Goon
I've noticed when looking at mostly everyone's build posted on this thread, it seems as if no-one knows that slotting more than 2 slots/recharge enhancements on Hasten, Rage and so forth is overkill. Any power that indicates buffed numbers from enhancements in "Red" will give a false reading on the actual numbers because of ED. Its also a waste of a slot that can be used eslewhere. For an example, two slots in Hasten with recharging enhancements will highlight in "Green", meaning that this is good, and if a buffed power is highlighted in yellow, that means you are not too far from the accurate mark on Mids.
Just sharing great info. |
The tone of the original post seems to suggest that there is a good bit of "attitude" beneath the mask.
@ Dr Gemini
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| �If we would come together and be great role models, it would be amazing to see how the next generation turns out.� |
As one of my old PnP gaming buddies used to say..
" There is no kill that is quite as good as overkill"
My Perma Dull Pain INV tank, my Perma Hoarfrost Ice Tank, and my Perma Energize Electric tank all laugh heartily at you ludicrous statement..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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Huh, TIL.
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Originally Posted by Helluva_Goon
I've noticed when looking at mostly everyone's build posted on this board, it seems as if very few people are utilizing enhancement boosters. You can +5 two enhancements and get relatively the same recharge values as 3 unboosted ones, thus freeing up slots here and there.
Just sharing great info. |
I've noticed when looking at mostly everyone's build posted on this thread, it seems as if no-one knows that slotting only 2 slots/recharge enhancements on Hasten, Rage and so forth does not fully enhance the power. Any power that indicates buffed numbers from enhancements in "Green" will give a false reading on the actual numbers because of underenhancement. Green normally means good, but in mids it means BAD. For an example, two slots in Hasten with recharging enhancements will highlight in "Green", but yet you are only enhancing it 83%. When it shows "Red" it is at 99%. That's 15% more recharge that you are wasting by not slotting for it!
So remember, when you see green, you can still shave 19 seconds off Hasten, 10 seconds off Rage, and 77 seconds off Burnout!!!
Just sharing great info.
Deus or anyone else, would you please explain the situation where an extra two to five seconds of hasten will make a substantial difference in a build? I have never seen anyone post a build where it mattered a whit since the old days when it was actually a challenge to make domination permanent, and even then obviously only dominators needed apply.
Take the claim that several extra seconds of hasten could make the difference between permanent dull pain or not. This is laughable on several levels. It takes something like 102% global recharge plus ED capped slotting to make hasten permanent. It takes 55% global recharge plus ED capped slotting to make dull pain permanent if you don't even have hasten. DP is incredibly easy to make permanent, hasten is in an entirely different league. If you have perma hasten or hasten close to perma, you would have to leave DP completely unslotted for recharge to get it close to not being permanent, and you'd fail. If you have low global recharge and slot hasten and dull pain adequately by themselves, you would have to tune your build exquisitely tightly for the express purpose of making DP fall just short of being perma.
In general, the OP is correct. The third slot is wasteful if your build is tight. If your build isn't tight, do whatever you want, it hardly matters.
You know why.. because I can.... and I want to..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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This made me laugh. In the beginning I decided never to purple a build suggestion. Purples cost a lot of inf and do mean a lot of invested time. For a similar reason I wouldn't ++ anything because it can mean buying from the market when really it don't necessarily matter all that much.
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Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
I've noticed when looking at mostly everyone's build posted on this board, it seems as if very few people are utilizing enhancement boosters. You can +5 two enhancements and get relatively the same recharge values as 3 unboosted ones, thus freeing up slots here and there.
Just sharing great info. Huh, TIL. |
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I've noticed when looking at some people's post in these forums, it seems as if that person doesn't know they're posting the wrong thread in the wrong forum. Any thread in the tanker forum should probably discuss topics that regard tankers specifically. For an example, posing about slotting options on a power that's available to all players, probably doesn't make a lot of sense in the tanker forum. Sure, you may see builds here that slot the power in a way you don't like, but you'll find the same slotting everywhere.
Just sharing info that can make you look like less of a jerk.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
Because of people like you I now have to take a character on 4 slot Rech reduction on every power. You are sooooo evil.
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While Hasten is not a necessary power for every build, most people invest in it because Hasten does add a lot of global recharge. The only other power in the game that offers more recharge (by itself) is Adrenaline Boost. The next best recharge besides Hasten is going to come from AM, SB, Chronoshift and other powers that still don't reach the 70% recharge that Hasten provides. And, Hasten is the only bonus recharge power that every character has access to without needing to take a per-requisite power.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Deus or anyone else, would you please explain the situation where an extra two to five seconds of hasten will make a substantial difference in a build? I have never seen anyone post a build where it mattered a whit since the old days when it was actually a challenge to make domination permanent, and even then obviously only dominators needed apply.
Take the claim that several extra seconds of hasten could make the difference between permanent dull pain or not. This is laughable on several levels. It takes something like 102% global recharge plus ED capped slotting to make hasten permanent. It takes 55% global recharge plus ED capped slotting to make dull pain permanent if you don't even have hasten. DP is incredibly easy to make permanent, hasten is in an entirely different league. If you have perma hasten or hasten close to perma, you would have to leave DP completely unslotted for recharge to get it close to not being permanent, and you'd fail. If you have low global recharge and slot hasten and dull pain adequately by themselves, you would have to tune your build exquisitely tightly for the express purpose of making DP fall just short of being perma. In general, the OP is correct. The third slot is wasteful if your build is tight. If your build isn't tight, do whatever you want, it hardly matters. |
For just about everyone who plays games like this, being able to reach the min/max stuff is what they aim for. Now, that doesn't mean you will invest tons of money/time into every character. But, most people tend to want to make their character "decent" enough to enjoy playing and will gravitate toward making generally accepted choices. For many, that means making certain powers "permanent" or getting better performance out of a power.
To that end, people tend to figure out what the "necessary" slotting for a power is (in addition to other factors) to reach their goals. Therefore, investing 3 slots into Hasten has become the De-fact o way to go to get Hasten permanent with the assistance of other global recharge. And the same goes for other powers.
However, there is always the disclaimer: "Your Mileage May Vary." I.E. You may find that you don't need to follow the "standard" to achieve your goals. There are people who slot Hasten less and some who don't take it at all. There are even people who might go above the standard.
But, the tone of the original post (and yours) does nothing to really convince other people that your way may be better. You have come across as nothing more than a "n00b" who claims to "know all these amazing secrets but doesn't."
@ Dr Gemini
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| �If we would come together and be great role models, it would be amazing to see how the next generation turns out.� |
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IIRC Dull Pain is perma if Dull Pain is slotted with 5 Doctored Wounds, -the Heal/End one + Hasten 3 slotted and 55% global recharge. Let me look at mids to see if your statement is true.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Deus or anyone else, would you please explain the situation where an extra two to five seconds of hasten will make a substantial difference in a build? I have never seen anyone post a build where it mattered a whit since the old days when it was actually a challenge to make domination permanent, and even then obviously only dominators needed apply.
Take the claim that several extra seconds of hasten could make the difference between permanent dull pain or not. This is laughable on several levels. It takes something like 102% global recharge plus ED capped slotting to make hasten permanent. It takes 55% global recharge plus ED capped slotting to make dull pain permanent if you don't even have hasten. DP is incredibly easy to make permanent, hasten is in an entirely different league. If you have perma hasten or hasten close to perma, you would have to leave DP completely unslotted for recharge to get it close to not being permanent, and you'd fail. If you have low global recharge and slot hasten and dull pain adequately by themselves, you would have to tune your build exquisitely tightly for the express purpose of making DP fall just short of being perma. |
Yup 55% Global Recharge + 97.49% Recharge in Dull Pain = 142.6 Seconds Recharge, 22.6 seconds off.
Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.
I've noticed when looking at mostly everyone's build posted on this thread, it seems as if no-one knows that slotting more than 2 slots/recharge enhancements on Hasten, Rage and so forth is overkill. Any power that indicates buffed numbers from enhancements in "Red" will give a false reading on the actual numbers because of ED. Its also a waste of a slot that can be used eslewhere. For an example, two slots in Hasten with recharging enhancements will highlight in "Green", meaning that this is good, and if a buffed power is highlighted in yellow, that means you are not too far from the accurate mark on Mids.
Just sharing great info.